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Posted: 12/8/2021 8:04:05 PM EDT
[#1]
You certainly have enough data to write a book. Easily the most informative member we have.
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Posted: 12/23/2021 8:26:35 PM EDT
[#2]
 .... |
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Posted: 12/23/2021 8:59:19 PM EDT
[#3]
muzzle? gas port?
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Posted: 12/23/2021 9:05:20 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: muzzle? gas port? muzzle |
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Posted: 12/23/2021 9:08:09 PM EDT
[#5]
sheesh
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Posted: 12/23/2021 9:10:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Casting Pearls Before Swine: My Years Posting on ARFCOM by Molon They Couldn't Handle The Truth by Molon Pit of Despair: Doing Yeoman's Work On A Forum by Molon Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Molon, when does the book come out? Casting Pearls Before Swine: My Years Posting on ARFCOM by Molon They Couldn't Handle The Truth by Molon Pit of Despair: Doing Yeoman's Work On A Forum by Molon |
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Posted: 12/24/2021 12:33:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: muzzle What am I missing here? This looks good, right? |
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Posted: 12/24/2021 12:56:12 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This looks good, right? Indeed!  |
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Posted: 12/24/2021 1:14:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Thank you for the information, your posts are some of the best
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Posted: 12/30/2021 1:08:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As being pretty well rounded in my ignorance, my take away from this is to not immediately judge a barrel “out of the box” before it has had a chance to break in.  .... |
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Posted: 12/30/2021 2:12:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Excellent post as always Malon. Highly appreciated sir!
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Posted: 12/30/2021 7:42:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Thank you, Molon.
Results are a little disappointing as I was considering a 12.5 Core barrel. The level of accuracy is fine for my needs, and the machining looks good, but now I'm concerned it'll be overgassed. Not running a suppressor so that should help. For me, the profile is the main draw as I expect this will balance better than a gov't profile. Sadly Faxon doesn't make a 12.5 Gunner or that'd be an option. |
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Posted: 12/31/2021 4:02:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you, Molon. Results are a little disappointing as I was considering a 12.5 Core barrel. The level of accuracy is fine for my needs, and the machining looks good, but now I'm concerned it'll be overgassed. Not running a suppressor so that should help. For me, the profile is the main draw as I expect this will balance better than a gov't profile. Sadly Faxon doesn't make a 12.5 Gunner or that'd be an option. My 12.5 doesn't feel over gassed. Ymmv |
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Posted: 12/31/2021 3:00:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My 12.5 doesn't feel over gassed. Ymmv That's good to know. According to post #24 in this thread, the Criterion 12.5 runs fine with an H2 buffer and Sprinco Blue buffer spring...so at least 2 data points indicating it'll be ok. I'm just starting to learn about "proper" gas port sizing so I may be making a mountain out of a molehill. |
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Posted: 12/31/2021 3:24:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's good to know. According to post #24 in this thread, the Criterion 12.5 runs fine with an H2 buffer and Sprinco Blue buffer spring...so at least 2 data points indicating it'll be ok. I'm just starting to learn about "proper" gas port sizing so I may be making a mountain out of a molehill. My 13.9 and 16” Core barrels don’t feel over gassed. And my 12.5 Criterion Hybrid profile feels about perfect. I can check what buffer I’m using if interested. |
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Posted: 12/31/2021 3:29:13 PM EDT
[#16]
Unless I missed it, in terms of gas mitigation,
no one has post regards the BRT gas system. Is the BRT 'not' proven??? Seems like to mitigate gas, one would want to achieve this prior to the action. Is this viable rationale?? Especially suppressed. |
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Posted: 12/31/2021 4:43:14 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unless I missed it, in terms of gas mitigation, no one has post regards the BRT gas system. Is the BRT 'not' proven??? Seems like to mitigate gas, one would want to achieve this prior to the action. Is this viable rationale?? Especially suppressed. |
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Posted: 12/31/2021 10:31:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryWow. That looks perfect. |
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Posted: 1/1/2022 11:03:52 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you, Molon. Results are a little disappointing as I was considering a 12.5 Core barrel. The level of accuracy is fine for my needs, and the machining looks good, but now I'm concerned it'll be overgassed. Not running a suppressor so that should help. For me, the profile is the main draw as I expect this will balance better than a gov't profile. Sadly Faxon doesn't make a 12.5 Gunner or that'd be an option. my 12.5 core runs beautiful with a blue and a h2. using 193's, i dont shoot or choose to shoot 223 or steel. perfect ejection, smooth, awesome. cant ask for better. im lefty. iam too picky when it comes to over gassing, and i did NOT want a AGB. i did order brt tube, messaged the owner and explained my situation. spec'd for 75/25mix, 556 brass ammo, h2 and carbine spring, sandman s. when ever you add a can, itll increase gas, so i just jumped and tried to get ahead of the gas to face issues. i did specify i did not mind if i had to swap buffer/spring to reduced weights for unsuppressed use. so in my bag i have a blue, white and yellow sprinco's and carbine buffer, h2 and white in gun. kind of overkill, but the colored springs will help me remember my combos. i have not shot it yet with tube installed, but my can should be out of jail within this month, and i will follow up with that if wanted. |
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Posted: 1/8/2022 1:27:59 PM EDT
[#20]
I had been thinking to build up a 13.9 Criterion Core as a suppressor host. It'd be my first suppressed gun. Some of the comments above are concerning.
What are the best barrels for what I'm trying to do? It does seem .750 gas is inherently superior. Thanks. |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 8:13:52 PM EDT
[#21]
I assume this video is known to most here. It's Criterion's older "Hybrid" profile but same production, chrome lined, etc. The FGMM 69gr appears to perform quite impressively.
 Criterion Barrels vs Cold Hammer Forged: A Comparative Analysis |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 10:39:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thank you for the time and effort. This is a great write up. Ditto. Thanks. |
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Posted: 1/9/2022 10:44:44 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every barrel is going to be different. For a chrome-lined barrel, I typically fire 200 rounds before doing an accuracy evaluation. As demonstrated with the Criterion CORE barrel, the groups tightened-up around the 150 round mark. ... Curious. What time frame/cooling regimen do you use for those 200? |
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Posted: 1/11/2022 5:51:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Curious. What time frame/cooling regimen do you use for those 200? Just a leisurely shooting pace. .... |
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Posted: 1/23/2022 5:55:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Some numbers collected from "various manufacturers." Love to her from the experts here how reliable these are.
AR-15 GAS PORT SIZES AR-15 Platform 5.56mm 20" rifle 5.56 0.0935 20" rifle 5.56 0.096 20" rifle 5.56 0.098 16" mid 5.56 0.078 16" mid 5.56 0.081 16" car 5.56 0.0625 16" car 5.56 0.065 16" car 5.56 0.07 14.5" car 5.56 0.067 14.5" car 5.56 0.086 11.5" car 5.56 0.081 11.5" car 5.56 0.089 24" rifle 5.56 0.089 |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 2:34:04 PM EDT
[#26]
 .... |
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Posted: 1/30/2022 5:20:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryTorture. . . . new term: "Bore Porn." My 16 Core is doing great with FGMM 69s. No pics so no claims, but seems to confirm your results Molon. I've got a few more miles on mine, I'll bet yours gets better too. My 13.9 Core is awaiting a messed up SF SOCOM 3prong that had to be sent to SF, threads didn't thread. |
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Posted: 2/5/2022 2:23:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is proven and highly viable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Unless I missed it, in terms of gas mitigation, no one has post regards the BRT gas system. Is the BRT 'not' proven??? Seems like to mitigate gas, one would want to achieve this prior to the action. Is this viable rationale?? Especially suppressed. It is proven and highly viable. I have yet to see anyone post statistically significant data comparing the laminar flow versus turbulent flow created by the BRT tube and it's effect on the accuracy/precision of the barrel. If you have a link to such data can you post it? .. |
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Posted: 2/5/2022 3:35:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have yet to see anyone post statistically significant data comparing the laminar flow versus turbulent flow created by the BRT tube and it's effect on the accuracy/precision of the barrel. If you have a link to such data can you post it? .. On very anecdotal lines, my 14.5 DD barreled upper didn't experience any noticeable change in accuracy when the BRT tube went in. With 77gr Sierras it was a roughly 1 minute gun before and after the tube swap. Normal caveats about the sample size apply, of course. I have two SBR uppers which also have BRT gas tubes but haven't shot them from a bench in ages. |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 6:53:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The accuracy of the Core barrel vs the 6920 was so close that you couldn’t give a nod to either one, Flat. Out. False.  ... |
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Posted: 2/11/2022 11:40:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Molon do you know of any decent borescope that won’t break the bank? Something that works with iPhone would be awesome.
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Posted: 2/12/2022 12:23:24 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Flat. Out. False. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/criterion_core_barrel_accuracy_compariso-2160926.jpg ... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The accuracy of the Core barrel vs the 6920 was so close that you couldn’t give a nod to either one, Flat. Out. False. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/criterion_core_barrel_accuracy_compariso-2160926.jpg ... 1/2” or less difference between chrome lined barrels is insignificant for the type of shooting those barrels are built for. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 1:33:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1/2” or less difference between chrome lined barrels is insignificant for the type of shooting those barrels are built for. This is a super flawed and limited way of thinking. The two colts average out to 1.5 moa and represent a 38% increase in grouping. That IS significant |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 10:04:37 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a super flawed and limited way of thinking. The two colts average out to 1.5 moa and represent a 38% increase in grouping. That IS significant Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 1/2” or less difference between chrome lined barrels is insignificant for the type of shooting those barrels are built for. This is a super flawed and limited way of thinking. The two colts average out to 1.5 moa and represent a 38% increase in grouping. That IS significant Group size disparity between the Colt 1.62" group and the Core amounts to 2.12" @ 300 yards and 3.12" Colt at 500 yards according to my calculation. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 10:46:34 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1/2” or less difference between chrome lined barrels is insignificant for the type of shooting those barrels are built for. You have no clue what "type of shooting" Criterion built these barrels for. Here's a hint: they built them to have similar weight as chrome lined, government profile barrels, yet produce better accuracy as well as better handling characteristics and the FACT OF THE MATTER is that they produce better accuracy than the Colt government profile barrels that I documented above and your statement that "the accuracy of the Core barrel vs the 6920 was so close that you couldn’t give a nod to either one" is still FLAT OUT FALSE. ... |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 11:14:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: News flash for you sparky. You don't decide what "type of shooting" Criterion built these barrels for. Here's a hint: they built them to have similar weight as government profile barrels, yet produce better accuracy as well as better handling and the FACT OF THE MATTER is that they produce better accuracy than the Colt government profile barrels that I documented above. ... It’s an overgassed 16” chrome lined AR barrel in a market flooded with overgassed 16” chrome lined AR barrels. Don’t you have something to cry about? Your top tier disappointment threads are pretty entertaining. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 11:46:38 AM EDT
[#37]
Can you guys stop? Its fucking annoying to see some of the more informative threads turn into bickering. If you have a grievance with the information stated, dispute it in a technical / professional manner. That goes for both of you. You two are both smart and respected members of this forum, act like it.
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Posted: 2/12/2022 2:54:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Shot my 12.5 core with BRT mixed use tube. I sized it for more of a 75%/25% mixed use. Being lefty, I didn’t want too much gas to my face. I talked with the owner on M4carbine prior.
H2/sprinco white spring, locked back on empty mag, first shot, tried different mags, sometimes the same mag wouldn’t lock back, 2 rounds total fail to feed, 10 round pmags used. Must be ammo due to it randomly happening no matter the mag used. Swapped to a carbine/white spring, it randomly would lock back, sometimes, tried multiple mags just happens randomly. Would cycle fine, no issues ejecting or feeding. Again, ammo related, I suppose. Carbine/Sprinco yellow is the setup for unsuppressed. Gun is relatively new, only a few hundred rounds through it, so in terms of being broken in, it’s not. I’m extremely happy with results, once I figured out the correct combo, but this will be primarily suppressed, so the above doesn’t matter too much to me especially since I figured it out. Winchester bulk 150rd white box m193’s, I’m sure they aren’t consistent compared to other brands, especially with the random lock backs and the 2 fail to feeds out of 120 rounds. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 3:51:28 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shot my 12.5 core with BRT mixed use tube. I'll be trialing some different sizes in the near future.  .... |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 4:03:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Group size disparity between the Colt 1.62" group and the Core amounts to 2.12" @ 300 yards and 3.12" Colt at 500 yards according to my calculation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1/2” or less difference between chrome lined barrels is insignificant for the type of shooting those barrels are built for. This is a super flawed and limited way of thinking. The two colts average out to 1.5 moa and represent a 38% increase in grouping. That IS significant Group size disparity between the Colt 1.62" group and the Core amounts to 2.12" @ 300 yards and 3.12" Colt at 500 yards according to my calculation. How are you arriving at these numbers? 1.62x3=4.86 1.12x3=3.36 4.86-3.36=1.5 |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 8:54:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How are you arriving at these numbers? 1.62x3=4.86 1.12x3=3.36 4.86-3.36=1.5 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 1/2” or less difference between chrome lined barrels is insignificant for the type of shooting those barrels are built for. This is a super flawed and limited way of thinking. The two colts average out to 1.5 moa and represent a 38% increase in grouping. That IS significant Group size disparity between the Colt 1.62" group and the Core amounts to 2.12" @ 300 yards and 3.12" Colt at 500 yards according to my calculation. How are you arriving at these numbers? 1.62x3=4.86 1.12x3=3.36 4.86-3.36=1.5 Did I screw up? I was adding 1.12/1.62 to the increments. |
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Posted: 2/12/2022 10:05:39 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll be trialing some different sizes in the near future. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/brt_ez_tune_001-2276858.jpg .... |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 2:10:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s an overgassed 16” chrome lined AR barrel in a market flooded with overgassed 16” chrome lined AR barrels. Don’t you have something to cry about? Your top tier disappointment threads are pretty entertaining. samuse has some valid comments... right until he added his own crying part, as seen above. I actually appreciated the added comments and experience of all contributing members. Can your last line be just left out ? Doing so would make it easier for all involved to enjoy. |
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Posted: 2/18/2022 11:11:02 PM EDT
[#44]
 .... |
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Posted: 2/19/2022 9:35:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Well centered.
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Posted: 3/13/2022 1:30:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Curious. What time frame/cooling regimen do you use for those 200? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Every barrel is going to be different. For a chrome-lined barrel, I typically fire 200 rounds before doing an accuracy evaluation. As demonstrated with the Criterion CORE barrel, the groups tightened-up around the 150 round mark. ... Curious. What time frame/cooling regimen do you use for those 200? Not to thread hijack, but has anyone successfully “broken in” a nitrided barrel and seen groups tighten over X rounds of break in? If so, how many rounds? Also wondering if a hard barrel surface would wear-in faster with cheap, bimetallic jacketed rounds (although not so cheap anymore)? |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 2:41:10 PM EDT
[#47]
Did anyone opt for the headspaced bolt or just using a stock bolt? Considering getting an 11.5 to replace my bcm 11.5 lightweight standard when my can comes in for a little more stability durring extended shooting.
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Posted: 3/13/2022 3:16:53 PM EDT
[#48]
My humble contribution:
Shot at 100 yards. Criterion Core 16in; no exceptional accurizing techniques like bedding or truing the receiver; BCM M4 receiver. just under 200 rounds down the pipe at this point. Bolt was matched and headspaced at Criterion; the bore scopes like a work of art, much like Molon's. Geissele SSA-E Federal Gold Medal Match 69gr This was NOT cherrypicked; it was the only group I shot at 100. After messing with zeroing both the acog and my offset red dot, my time (limited to 1 hour at Elite in Manassas, bastards!) was running out. In my haste I tried to get in one more group but I loaded the rifle with the wrong mag and wound up shooting a great 2.5in group with XM193. . . no pics of that one sorry! Biggest limiting factor: optic is an ACOG TA31 M193 (fixed 4x) with a red chevron, which gave little contrast against the red bullseye. Trijicon TA31 M193 BDC I hope to have a 2.5-10X optic by this Saturday; if I can get it set up I'll do this again with a proper crosshair, with which I should be able to improve on the result below. Bagged front and rear on a table top. Eyeballing/measuring with a ruler it looks like 0.85 to 0.9 MOA; maybe someone can confirm with some nice software. the squares are 1 inch.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 3:43:52 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll be trialing some different sizes in the near future. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/brt_ez_tune_001-2276858.jpg .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Shot my 12.5 core with BRT mixed use tube. I'll be trialing some different sizes in the near future. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/brt_ez_tune_001-2276858.jpg .... I’m debating on whether to get the pre-set or the configurable version. Would like to get my Noveske N4 barrel down to .075” GP diameter. |
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Posted: 3/13/2022 3:43:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Regarding all the arguing going on here, which is quite unfortunate: I bought this 16in Core to be a bridge between a 13.9 blaster (also a Core) and an 18in SPR-oriented rifle (probably WOA). I expect it to be my grab-and-go, can-only-take-one rifle.
I think Criterion found an interesting niche, ideal for me, with a near-indestructible CL barrel that is significantly more accurate than basically any similarly weighted CL barrel. Its closest competitor, the SOCOM M4A1, would be significantly heavier if it were available in a 16in. Samose, I believe there is value in the capacity for precision in a CL barrel: able to withstand some abuse and neglect, and still be able to make a tight shot at distance if called upon to do so. I'm sure Criterion's marketing had some influence on my decision, but their reputation for excellent match barrels and their apparently-successful technique for applying the CL made it ideal for my needs. I am encouraged by my results, and I would encourage everyone who feels the need to piss on other people's opinions to stay out of Molon's threads. I don't want to have to search other sites to find his latest work. |
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