User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/30/2021 5:14:55 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Glad your friend is o.k. This |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2021 6:59:52 PM EDT
[#2]
HHJ
I think you keep looking at a piece of the case web....not the thinner case wall. And yes the case web was torn and rendered. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2021 9:23:01 PM EDT
[#3]
I had a similar kaboom 30 years ago with a Valmet M76. It had a minimum dimension .223 and surplus m193 did not play well in it.
Like the photo posted the main body of the failed case remained stuck in the chamber. Once removed, it revealed that the case shoulder of the previous round had torn off that case and the new case got jammed inside of it. The round fired out of battery blowing the case head off and lodging a bullet about 7" down the bore. Nowadays people are building rifles from parts kits and sourcing things from various manufacturers. Not all of the parts on the market are top tier. Tolerance stacking can occur. Using different manufacturers for barrels and BCG parts adds to tolerance stacking. The chances of a factory load being so grossly overcharged is very very slim. Not impossible, but almost unheard of. Handloads have blown up hundreds of rifles. Forgetting to make sure all of the previous loading session's powder is out of the measure has ruined many firearms. Mixing up powder has ruined many more. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2021 9:31:18 PM EDT
[#4]
It's true. I've read many threads about barrels marked 5.56 from some manufacturers that actually meet chamber specs closer to .223.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2021 9:34:10 PM EDT
[#5]
Any chance Winchester purchased LC primed brass in bulk and the finished production not on LC equipment, but rather in their own plant? With the primer shortages, seems likely that if primed brass was available it may have been how Winchester kept production going when the primer supply was getting thin.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2021 9:38:34 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Using different manufacturers for barrels and BCG parts adds to tolerance stacking. I don't know a single manufacturer of barrels that actually manufactures the bolt themselves. They might put their name on a bolt.... I have never seen a kaboom that was a result of any kind of tolerance stacking in an AR. Seen plenty that were ammunition related. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2021 9:54:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know a single manufacturer of barrels that actually manufactures the bolt themselves. They might put their name on a bolt.... I have never seen a kaboom that was a result of any kind of tolerance stacking in an AR. Seen plenty that were ammunition related. Is shoving a .300 Blackout bullet down a .223 bore a form of tolerance stacking? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2021 10:08:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know what your are talking about. Please repost the picture in question, perhaps with arrows. Not my post or pic ... I just scrolled up....there is a close up of the case still in this thread. H |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2021 12:50:01 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is shoving a .300 Blackout bullet down a .223 bore a form of tolerance stacking? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't know a single manufacturer of barrels that actually manufactures the bolt themselves. They might put their name on a bolt.... I have never seen a kaboom that was a result of any kind of tolerance stacking in an AR. Seen plenty that were ammunition related. Is shoving a .300 Blackout bullet down a .223 bore a form of tolerance stacking? .300 Blackout will blow a 5.56mm every single time. Barrel manufacturers usually buy a brand of bolt they trust and use them when headspacing each barrel. Many offer to sell headspaced bolts when purchasing their barrels. Buying the cheapest possible products from the cheapest source, each from a different source than one another will stack tolerances. Sometimes tolerance stacking will work in a positive way, sometimes not. The OP hasn't stated whether there is a bullet stuck in the barrel yet..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2021 1:44:27 AM EDT
[#10]
I wonder how many times a powder keg gets changed for each lot of ammo.
The belief that rounds get boxed up in order of loading is almost always untrue. I’m skeptical that bullet setback could create that much pressure, but who knows. I also think that much pistol powder in a 5.56 round would be a bit more catastrophic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2021 1:57:42 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .300 Blackout will blow a 5.56mm every single time. Barrel manufacturers usually buy a brand of bolt they trust and use them when headspacing each barrel. Many offer to sell headspaced bolts when purchasing their barrels. Buying the cheapest possible products from the cheapest source, each from a different source than one another will stack tolerances. Sometimes tolerance stacking will work in a positive way, sometimes not. The OP hasn't stated whether there is a bullet stuck in the barrel yet..... Quote HistoryQuoted: .300 Blackout will blow a 5.56mm every single time. Barrel manufacturers usually buy a brand of bolt they trust and use them when headspacing each barrel. Many offer to sell headspaced bolts when purchasing their barrels. Buying the cheapest possible products from the cheapest source, each from a different source than one another will stack tolerances. Sometimes tolerance stacking will work in a positive way, sometimes not. The OP hasn't stated whether there is a bullet stuck in the barrel yet..... RIF. https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Friend-s-AR-Kaboomed-Yesterday-pics-Update-Ammo-lot-number-added-Winchester-notified/118-763688/?page=1#i8269135 Quoted: There is currently no obstruction in his barrel, but that's not to say a possible obstruction wasn't blown out during the kaboom. I'm not so sure about how likely an obstruction would be the culprit, however; as all the damage occurred at the breech end and the casing swelled enough to remain solidly stuck in the chamber. He is dropping the rifle off today to have a 'smith examine it, so hopefully I'll be able to pass on some answers. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2021 9:29:12 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The OP hasn't stated whether there is a bullet stuck in the barrel yet..... see that light at the end of the tunnel?  Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2021 10:58:58 AM EDT
[#13]
Any word from Winchester?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2021 3:35:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had a similar kaboom 30 years ago with a Valmet M76. It had a minimum dimension .223 and surplus m193 did not play well in it. Like the photo posted the main body of the failed case remained stuck in the chamber. Once removed, it revealed that the case shoulder of the previous round had torn off that case and the new case got jammed inside of it. The round fired out of battery blowing the case head off and lodging a bullet about 7" down the bore. Nowadays people are building rifles from parts kits and sourcing things from various manufacturers. Not all of the parts on the market are top tier. Tolerance stacking can occur. Using different manufacturers for barrels and BCG parts adds to tolerance stacking. The chances of a factory load being so grossly overcharged is very very slim. Not impossible, but almost unheard of. Handloads have blown up hundreds of rifles. Forgetting to make sure all of the previous loading session's powder is out of the measure has ruined many firearms. Mixing up powder has ruined many more. As always it is a great idea to monitor your headspace. I looked at the original picture and to me the front half of the case appears stuck in the chamber. To me that is a sign of headspace issue. However, I don't buy that an AR15 can fire out of battery. It is literally impossible for it to happen if you think about how an AR is designed. The bolt rotates and locks into the extension. The design itself would not allow a oob. The only possible way for it to fire is if the bolt locked into the extension and the fire pin can reach the primer. Personally I dislike how people say an AR15, or M1A can fire out of battery. Their assumption is if you can pull the trigger while the bolt is partially in battery, that must mean it can fire oob. That is not the case in any modern military rifle. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2021 10:08:35 PM EDT
[#15]
That AR looks dry as a martini.....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2021 10:31:36 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That AR looks dry as a martini..... If you dump 50,000 psi of hot gas over oil, the oil seemingly tends to evaporate... |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2021 11:09:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Wrinkled case due to bolt bounce maybe during the nanosecond of detonation....?.... since oob impossible in AR platform as I have leaned here .....
I love all the head scratching here ... great forum input!! H |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/1/2021 11:12:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As always it is a great idea to monitor your headspace. I looked at the original picture and to me the front half of the case appears stuck in the chamber. To me that is a sign of headspace issue. . Not really. Every reloader eventually runs into a broken shell, which essentially is headspace issue of a case having too much loose headspace fired over and over. The case always breaks in the middle, never there at the head. And when they break, there is enough in the back to still swell and thus seal. So it ends up just being a broken shell induce jam. Excessive headspace isnt nearly the Kaboom worry people make it out to be. Heck. Military machine guns purposely run excessive headspace to keep running when fouled. Over stretch the brass and reloaders hate it, but they don't Kaboom from the excessive heaspace. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2021 12:17:33 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wrinkled case due to bolt bounce maybe during the nanosecond of detonation....?.... since oob impossible in AR platform as I have leaned here ..... I love all the head scratching here ... great forum input!! H Where is this wrinkled case you speak of? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2021 12:18:43 AM EDT
[#20]
No new info yet, hopefully I'll have some for ya'll next week.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2021 12:34:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not really. Every reloader eventually runs into a broken shell, which essentially is headspace issue of a case having too much loose headspace fired over and over. The case always breaks in the middle, never there at the head. And when they break, there is enough in the back to still swell and thus seal. So it ends up just being a broken shell induce jam. Excessive headspace isnt nearly the Kaboom worry people make it out to be. Heck. Military machine guns purposely run excessive headspace to keep running when fouled. Over stretch the brass and reloaders hate it, but they don't Kaboom from the excessive heaspace. Keep in mind most barrels will wear out well before headspace becomes an issue. With that said, it's very important that you measure headspace at the field limit of 1.4736. You cannot directly compare the headspace of a SAW with that of an AR15. If the headspace on an AR15 fails at 1.4736 and goes beyond that, you're asking for problems. The OP is not using reloads, but factory ammo. I'm pretty sure there were warning signs well before this KB happened. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2021 1:04:49 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt there is enough room to overload a case. Cases are pretty damn full with max loads from the data book and actually over fill some brands of brass with less capacity. I also doubt Winchester/Lake City made one case with the wrong powder. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's not what a headspace issue looks like. That is a load which by all signs was way over pressure. All you need to do is look at the huge ejector mark to see the obvious. It could have been caused by an overloaded case, bad or incorrect powder, or a barrel obstruction. I doubt there is enough room to overload a case. Cases are pretty damn full with max loads from the data book and actually over fill some brands of brass with less capacity. I also doubt Winchester/Lake City made one case with the wrong powder. Wrong powder is highly unlikely but take a factory loaded 5.56 round and shake it, there is a lot of room left for an overcharge. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2021 8:50:11 PM EDT
[#23]
One of my buddies just had an issue with the same ammo, rifle wasn't running right and he brought it into a smith with some of this ammo to troubleshoot. He had not shot the ammo through the rifle yet.
ETA pic of cases and same lot numbers:  Attached File Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2021 9:33:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of my buddies just had an issue with the same ammo, rifle wasn't running right and he brought it into a smith with some of this ammo to troubleshoot. He had not shot the ammo through the rifle yet. ETA pic of cases and same lot numbers: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481528/Screenshot_20210423-205229_Snapchat_jpg-1928692.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481528/Screenshot_20210503-195439_Snapchat_jpg-1928696.JPG Here’s to all the headspace and OOB conspiracy theorists out there.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2021 10:23:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what a headspace issue looks like. That is a load which by all signs was way over pressure. All you need to do is look at the huge ejector mark to see the obvious. It could have been caused by an overloaded case, bad or incorrect powder, or a barrel obstruction. This is the correct answer. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/3/2021 11:53:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Tag
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2021 12:47:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Looks like we will have an ammo recall on our hands.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2021 7:12:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Glad your friend is ok, when I looked at the picture of the bad case vs the other cases out of the box I noticed that there is more small dots present on the bad case than the one from the box. This might be from stretching or an artifact, but it appears to be a different case. Thanks so much for the informative post, please keep us posted on what Winchester says!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2021 8:29:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like we will have an ammo recall on our hands. If Winchester's response to this guys bad ammo is any indication, don't look at them sending you replacement ammo.  https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Burr-on-case-rims-/42-524372/&page=1&anc=5509524#i5509524 |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2021 11:01:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Following. I have some with a lot number ending in -055
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2021 11:34:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Following. I have some with a lot number ending in -055 WLC= manufacturer 21= year of manufacture C= March production ( January is A, February B, etc except they skip I because it looks like a 1) 815=serial, which is the recipe as in specific component lot numbers, powder lot, primer lot, etc 067= code for shift or run it was made on. additionally, WLC and SMQ indicates it was not accepted/ not produced for the military, and didn't go through all the inspections and testing that military service ammo goes through. Same load recipe and components, but minimal testing just to commercial standards, not milspec. the military goes to great lengths to track component lots in production. That way if ammo ends up malfunctioning, they immediately put a hold on all lot numbers that were produced with components of that recipe code and hold them from issue while they test and find out what component (s) are defective. If it's a minor defect it will be restricted to training use. If it's a critical defect, they will pull the entire associated lots (millions of rounds) for demil and disposal. I was an Army ammunition specialist for a few years before returning to the Infantry where I belonged. In closing, if it's not that lot number, you are probably ok. For me, if I had any WLC 21 B, C, Or D I would park it until this gets figured out. HTH edit for clarification of a few points |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2021 11:35:12 PM EDT
[#32]
I have 2 boxes, ending -057. Following as well.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2021 11:54:09 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have 2 boxes, ending -057. Following as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/4/2021 11:55:16 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not what a headspace issue looks like. That is a load which by all signs was way over pressure. All you need to do is look at the huge ejector mark to see the obvious. It could have been caused by an overloaded case, bad or incorrect powder, or a barrel obstruction. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Glad to hear your friend only suffered minor injuries. Usually a case head separation occurs with a weak case walls due to reloads overstretching the case to the point of failure and/or head space being too long. Do you know if your friend has been monitoring his head space? Or it is possible he picked up reloads/remanf while at the class. Do you know if your friend has any popped primers or cracked cases prior to this KB? That's not what a headspace issue looks like. That is a load which by all signs was way over pressure. All you need to do is look at the huge ejector mark to see the obvious. It could have been caused by an overloaded case, bad or incorrect powder, or a barrel obstruction. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 12:56:49 AM EDT
[#35]
I know I'm just some random guy on the internet, but here's my two cents...
I'm going with a barrel obstruction caused by the previous round being a squib. Here's why... Obvious extreme pressure signs on the case head. Extremely unlikely to be an overcharge. The way commercial ammo is made makes an UNDER charge more likely. I have experienced it myself. Had a 1000 rd can of Lake City M855 from 2000 or 2001 (don't remember which) that had NUMEROUS squibs. The first one I'll never forget. I was at a public range near Pensacola helping a shipmate get ready for his M16 qual using my personal rifle (circa 2007). Using this ammo. I was firing a string myself and something sounded "off" about the round I fired. Seemed muffled, but it was hard to tell with the ear pro. Spent case ejected, but no new hole poked in the target. Anywhere. Bolt did not pick up a fresh round from the mag. Out of an overabundance of caution, I stripped the rifle down and couldn't see thru the barrel. "Welp, we're done here." Packed it back into the case and took it home. Once I got it on the table at home, I figured out that the projectile was stuck just past the gas block. Got it removed and all was well. Going through the rest of that can, there must have been a dozen or more squib loads. All the rest made it out of the barrel, but bet your ass I was pulling the bolt to peek through every time one sounded "off". After that experience, I can easily see how in the "heat of the moment" of a training course one might clear a stoppage and get a "Tap, rack, BOOM." |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 1:22:14 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know I'm just some random guy on the internet, but here's my two cents... I'm going with a barrel obstruction caused by the previous round being a squib. Here's why... Obvious extreme pressure signs on the case head. Extremely unlikely to be an overcharge. The way commercial ammo is made makes an UNDER charge more likely. I have experienced it myself. Had a 1000 rd can of Lake City M855 from 2000 or 2001 (don't remember which) that had NUMEROUS squibs. The first one I'll never forget. I was at a public range near Pensacola helping a shipmate get ready for his M16 qual using my personal rifle (circa 2007). Using this ammo. I was firing a string myself and something sounded "off" about the round I fired. Seemed muffled, but it was hard to tell with the ear pro. Spent case ejected, but no new hole poked in the target. Anywhere. Bolt did not pick up a fresh round from the mag. Out of an overabundance of caution, I stripped the rifle down and couldn't see thru the barrel. "Welp, we're done here." Packed it back into the case and took it home. Once I got it on the table at home, I figured out that the projectile was stuck just past the gas block. Got it removed and all was well. Going through the rest of that can, there must have been a dozen or more squib loads. All the rest made it out of the barrel, but bet your ass I was pulling the bolt to peek through every time one sounded "off". After that experience, I can easily see how in the "heat of the moment" of a training course one might clear a stoppage and get a "Tap, rack, BOOM." There is no data to support your statement. In the absence of an actual data the most common scenario prevails. Overcharge. The second report of MULTIPLE rounds showing high pressure all but confirms this is a bad lot of ammo that produces too high of a chamber pressure. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 8:10:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no data to support your statement. In the absence of an actual data the most common scenario prevails. Overcharge. The second report of MULTIPLE rounds showing high pressure all but confirms this is a bad lot of ammo that produces too high of a chamber pressure. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I know I'm just some random guy on the internet, but here's my two cents... I'm going with a barrel obstruction caused by the previous round being a squib. Here's why... Obvious extreme pressure signs on the case head. Extremely unlikely to be an overcharge. The way commercial ammo is made makes an UNDER charge more likely. I have experienced it myself. Had a 1000 rd can of Lake City M855 from 2000 or 2001 (don't remember which) that had NUMEROUS squibs. The first one I'll never forget. I was at a public range near Pensacola helping a shipmate get ready for his M16 qual using my personal rifle (circa 2007). Using this ammo. I was firing a string myself and something sounded "off" about the round I fired. Seemed muffled, but it was hard to tell with the ear pro. Spent case ejected, but no new hole poked in the target. Anywhere. Bolt did not pick up a fresh round from the mag. Out of an overabundance of caution, I stripped the rifle down and couldn't see thru the barrel. "Welp, we're done here." Packed it back into the case and took it home. Once I got it on the table at home, I figured out that the projectile was stuck just past the gas block. Got it removed and all was well. Going through the rest of that can, there must have been a dozen or more squib loads. All the rest made it out of the barrel, but bet your ass I was pulling the bolt to peek through every time one sounded "off". After that experience, I can easily see how in the "heat of the moment" of a training course one might clear a stoppage and get a "Tap, rack, BOOM." There is no data to support your statement. In the absence of an actual data the most common scenario prevails. Overcharge. The second report of MULTIPLE rounds showing high pressure all but confirms this is a bad lot of ammo that produces too high of a chamber pressure. Yeah, no. Not squibs. The pic of cases I posted was taken by the smith. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 10:28:18 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Extremely unlikely to be an overcharge. The way commercial ammo is made makes an UNDER charge more likely. I have experienced it myself. I read an article years ago that an undercharge could result in a "detonation", i.e. all of the powder blows at the same time instead of a sequential burn from the rear of the case to the bullet base. Of course, this "gradual burn" all occurs in a fraction of a second. But with a detonation there is no "gradual burn" from the rear of the case to the front: all of the powder detonates at the same time. Possiblity? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 11:34:44 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I read an article years ago that an undercharge could result in a "detonation", i.e. all of the powder blows at the same time instead of a sequential burn from the rear of the case to the bullet base. Of course, this "gradual burn" all occurs in a fraction of a second. But with a detonation there is no "gradual burn" from the rear of the case to the front: all of the powder detonates at the same time. Possiblity? Always a possibility, but very difficult to confirm unless you start tearing down loads. A squib is arguably more likely than a detonating low power charge round, and squibs are easily diagnosed from a bulge in the bbl, even if they were knocked out by the next round. I'll agree it looks like Winchester is on the hook for this, albeit would like to hear from OP about his buddy's gunsmith checking the diameter of the bbl forward of the gas block. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 11:36:25 AM EDT
[#40]
Yes, it does begin to seem like it's all speculation until we get the word from Winchester. Meanwhile, all my WWB M193 is suspect, "to shoot or not to shoot." I guess this is why we have spare rifles.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 11:43:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, it does begin to seem like it's all speculation until we get the word from Winchester. Meanwhile, all my WWB M193 is suspect, "to shoot or not to shoot." I guess this is why we have FIFY. "Yeah, buddy, not going to be able to make it to the range today, but I knew you wanted to shoot my AR, and I've already loaded a bunch of mags, swing by & pick it up. You've got safety glasses, right?"
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 11:54:26 AM EDT
[#42]
Not sure I would think just ammo when looking at the new pic of the cases with primer issues.
One of my buddies just had an issue with the same ammo, rifle wasn't running right and he brought it into a smith with some of this ammo to troubleshoot. He had not shot the ammo through the rifle yet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 12:55:32 PM EDT
[#43]
UPDATE 5/5/21: Winchester wants all the ammo back from my buddy. They believe it may be dangerous and want to conduct some testing on it.
The gunsmith said the barrel is toast because the brass is fused to the chamber. He did not notice any bulges or obvious damage but cannot get a good look in the chamber because of the fused brass. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 1:08:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of my buddies just had an issue with the same ammo, rifle wasn't running right and he brought it into a smith with some of this ammo to troubleshoot. He had not shot the ammo through the rifle yet. ETA pic of cases and same lot numbers: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481528/Screenshot_20210423-205229_Snapchat_jpg-1928692.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481528/Screenshot_20210503-195439_Snapchat_jpg-1928696.JPG 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 1:11:24 PM EDT
[#45]
Good to see that Winchester is taking it seriously.
A solid reminder to always wear eye protection. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 1:27:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good to see that Winchester is taking it seriously. A solid reminder to always wear eye protection. So far Winchester’s response is better than Hornady’s response to the Frontier Fiasco. Just wait until Winchester “tests” it and says “we didn’t find anything wrong, we can refund you but we can’t send replacement ammo”. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 1:32:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a military lot number format, which translates to ... ... additionally, WLC and SMQ indicates it was not accepted/ not produced for the military, and didn't go through all the inspections and testing that military service ammo goes through. Same load recipe and components, but minimal testing just to commercial standards, not milspec. There's no way to double-charge a 5.56 case with military canister powder. It won't fit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 3:21:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: UPDATE 5/5/21: Winchester wants all the ammo back from my buddy. They believe it may be dangerous and want to conduct some testing on it. The gunsmith said the barrel is toast because the brass is fused to the chamber. He did not notice any bulges or obvious damage but cannot get a good look in the chamber because of the fused brass. Quote HistoryQuoted: UPDATE 5/5/21: Winchester wants all the ammo back from my buddy. They believe it may be dangerous and want to conduct some testing on it. The gunsmith said the barrel is toast because the brass is fused to the chamber. He did not notice any bulges or obvious damage but cannot get a good look in the chamber because of the fused brass. That brass is not "fused" to the chamber. It might be stuck, but a broken shell extractor or a little time and work with a punch/pick will be able to get it out. That being said - I would not shoot a barrel that had a significant kaboom, too many times these damage the chamber or the barrel extension. I'd ask Winchester to replace the barrel, bolt and carrier group, and the magazine. Quoted: There's no way to double-charge a 5.56 case with military canister powder. It won't fit. Double charge, no. Overcharge beyond the chamber pressure specification? Absolutely. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 3:33:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: UPDATE 5/5/21: Winchester wants all the ammo back from my buddy. They believe it may be dangerous and want to conduct some testing on it. The gunsmith said the barrel is toast because the brass is fused to the chamber. He did not notice any bulges or obvious damage but cannot get a good look in the chamber because of the fused brass. Think that rules out a squib. Try tossing the bbl in your freezer to see if the brass will come loose. If not, you can hit the bbl w/ a torch & see if that will make it expand more than the brass. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/5/2021 6:03:20 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure I would think just ammo when looking at the new pic of the cases with primer issues. Rifle seems to be already having problems before shooting the ammo. I have had a couple of barrels that would cause similar primer issues because of the short throat used with certain shaped bullets. I would try to rule out the chamber and throat area also as well as looking at other possible causes Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure I would think just ammo when looking at the new pic of the cases with primer issues. One of my buddies just had an issue with the same ammo, rifle wasn't running right and he brought it into a smith with some of this ammo to troubleshoot. He had not shot the ammo through the rifle yet. Not a short throated/tight chambered gun, and even if it was, well, it was with someone who can easily diagnose that. Not sure I've ever heard of a short throat causing issues with a 55gr FMJ round either but there is a first for everything. The rifle in question was having FTE issues previously but had been fired with a different lot of 55gr ammo, not sure what type, perhaps too soft for spring/buffer combo, bad extractor, etc. I would have looked at it for him but he brought it in right away. Gunsmith stated ammo was hot and immediately replaced bolt and related parts before troubleshooting further. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
