Can anyone confirm if they would work on an APC9? It does use an AR trigger group.

It's to my understanding that it does in fact work, however since there's no 9mm or 45 standard, the carriers all have different ramps and there has been reports that some 9mm BCG ramps don't work.  I'd be interested in hearing if a CMMG RDB would work.

On another note, I have a video incoming that will answer questions about how the trigger works, common issues with the trigger, wrong information circulating, and easy fixes. Not many videos address all of these things. Just finishing up the editing. Should be up on YouTube by the end of day.

There's a video of it running on a CMMG 9mm. Seemed to work quite well.

Not quite my best work, but if you want to see some of the mods, go towards the end of the video where it's showcased @stuartboyer. The realtime dremeling and drilling did not occur because it was already done. This is the first time I've made any real content so sorry if it's not up to ARFCOM standards.

Thank you sir. It is greatly appreciated and very informative, still watching. Liked and subscribed. My Chief joked he was thinking of doing a fans only for ammo too so that caught me off guard. Spit my drink in my patrol vehicle. I was explaining to him today how this works compared to my binaries and auto, ill have him watch this.

Looks good man! Ive been doing a TON of these, like overwhelmed. Can’t see Rare Breed fixing this issue with a next model. Now
If I could ever get a chance to try my trigger in something...

Rarebreed denies the issue exists and attributes all the issues to fingers so I doubt it.

Thank you for this!
I'm looking forward to the 22lr CMMG conversion vide, my 223 stash is taking a hit...

Tell me about it. Before the election, I snagged a few Walmart stocked .22 LR. So glad I did.

Thanks for the video. Is there a trick to getting the trigger block pin out? I went to drive it out and was worried I was going to damage something. Perhaps I just need to hit it harder.

It's extremely tight so it doesn't walk out. I recommend getting a flat punch and removing/re-inserting from one side only so if the hole enlarges, it's only a little on one side. I usually hit it pretty hard on and edge of a surface whilest it's on a softer firearm mat, but using a hard surface is fine. Mounting on a vise felt like I was going to bend or break it, so I opted to not do that.

Good stuff here!

I installed my FRT today in my FN15 Tactical II, replacing the Franklin Armory Binary. Took it out to test and was not working, it would not reset, just fired a single shot. Unfortunately, in all my excitement I forgot my tools and extra parts to make field adjustments. I'm hoping the issue is the buffer I went with is just too light, I put in an H1 (I have an odin works adjustable buffer). I upped to to h3 and will test it out tomorrow.

Also are the anti-walk pins supposed to have so much side to side play?

Exactly the same experience I had. I forgot extra buffers. That’s all it took for me though. It would run with an H1 buffer but not anything else.

I had made an inquiry to RB and got back this bit of info. Seems they made an in-line change to the frt-15 on 3/1 and the one I just got from BDU has this change.

Can't see shit

Attached File


Need the rest of the link to the spare parts.


Oh lookee there..... I wonder if they want $21 to ship the parts? ETA: They will ship USPS FC for about $4.



Attached File


https://www.rarebreedfirearms.com/replacement-locking-bar-modified/

Well shoot I cannot get the trigger to work. So far I have tried an H, H1, H2 and H3 buffer. On to trying different springs now.  Best I got so far was a double shot using the H3 buffer.

What's the rest of your setup?  What's happening when it's failing?  Did it work fine with a regular trigger?

I have this on my FN 15 Tactical II, I have an odin adjustable bufffer and was using the same buffer spring that I had with my Franklin Binary trigger. I have two other springs to try and I was going to bring out my Spikes Tactical NB lightweight BGC just to try it as well.

It will only fire one shot, loads the next round but does not seem to reset.

Wow.. I can't believe HK Parts got into the screw you business of selling FRT-15 for $899.99! Just lost some respect for them..

https://hkparts.net/product/rare-breed-trigger-frt-15.htm

When you shake the buffer do the weights move back and forth?

When you hand cycle it, how close does the bolt carrier get to closing before your finger pulls the trigger and the hammer drops?

If it's dropping to early the hammer will follow the bcg down and the round won't fire.

So it looks like the fix is easy.. just file down that bar on the inside.  Looks like Rare Breed really went to town on filing it down.

Yes the weights move a bit.

It seems the bc closes all the way. But to be honest I'm not sure I'm testing that right. I hand cycle , and while letting the bc close I keep light pressure on the trigger and it will dro[ the hammer as it closes.

Just tried my Spikes Tactical BCG with an H3 ad still no joy, fires one shot, loads the next but does not reset.

When you hand cycle and don't pull, does it reset?

I would cycle it with the upper off and make sure it forces the trigger forward and the lock bar engages properly.

I would read this article on timing a DIAS and try to apply it to your rare breed trigger. My guess is that something is goofed on the timing.
http://www.quarterbore.com/nfa/dias.html

So I can hand clycle, pull the trigger and keep it pulled, hand cycle and I can feel the trigger going slightly forward and when it closes it will break fire again.

If you put a 3/32 bit between the front of the Bolt Carrier, you shouldn't be able to pull the trigger and the hammer fall. If you put a 5/64 drill bit between the carrier and the upper, you should be able to pull the trigger and the hammer will fall.

I'll have to try that once I get home. I was messing with different buffer weights and I out in my stock H buffer with a carbine spring and it empty half a mag quick. But would not do it again.

If I do this from the magwell side (bottom) what you say is true. If I try through the ejection port it does not drop the hammer on either.

So they first say it's a myth and claim its not a problem. Then they claim your finger did the damage. Then they're claiming the carrier is the problem. To top it all off, now they're offering a half-baked fix.  Zero consistency.

yea really sucks, wishing I can just get mine to work.

I think it's been a learning process for them.

I'm willing to cut them some slack for a product this innovative.

I agree with you to an extent because it is a very innovative product. However. . .any good company will say "fuck man we think all you guys are right. . .we overlooked a mistake in our design". This company instead denies and deflects, which is bad business. In the end they end up implementing a partial change because they know they are wrong, but instead of saying they overlooked it, they say they only use "high quality parts in testing". Look if you're going to make a " retrofit" trigger or bolt carrier, as a company, you're going to try it in MANY different builds during your QD/QA process because tolerances are all different. But no, there we go blaming other people.

I don't care if they have 10k rounds through their uber awesome $10k build if most people don't run that and most people don't run a noveske, wilson, lmt, or kac.

Maybe I'm just a dick, but I simply don't respect that. I love the product but I don't respect how they're handling it.

I agree to an extent with both of you, I have noticed that in the videos etc of people who didn't have any and still don't have any issues though is they were all using Noveske, LMT etc rifles.
Those "low" or "budget" builds tough may have had tolerance stacking issues that caused it but your right most of us have those types of rifles. Chances of several parts being at a low or high end of the acceptable variance spectrum in dimensions on the components is more common on those rifles they (Rare Breed) probably are referring to and may not have used in testing which may  stack up (when it comes to how the FRT works anyway). But overall they are still in spec and run fine in their original format with a normal trigger.

I have only one factory rifle myself that is "high end" but the rest of my 20+ ARs are assembled by me and far from what I call "budget" or "low end" as they have better components than most factory rifles as I am picky and I triple check my assembly, torque values etc and parts. Hell I take apart assembled parts usually and check them myself even on factory uppers I have gotten for other officers and many were not torqued right the last few years. I don't like the whole "high end" and "budget" tags as they can be misleading. I have some "budget" PSA and Aero lowers on 2-3k+ rifles but "budget" doesn't always mean out of spec if checked and assembled right. I have had out of spec BCM, FN etc "high end" parts and "budget" barrels that out shot my 300+ dollar Daniel and Criterion barrels and vice versa, nothing is absolute you just raise the dice roll on better QC with more money (kinda like Random generator of loot in video games). Though with production running in its current form (way over worked people and insane order amounts) for the past few years (thanks politics and covid) that's almost not true anymore. "Budget" can also mean I got a good deal on a decent new upstart company remember none of them started out at the top of the game and had to earn the reputation.

Think Rare Breed could have handled it all better, did more varied testing and should offer a discount on the replacement locking bar for people with the original if having issues. Hopefully my next one from BDU which just now shipped though it was ordered a week ago has the new rollout. Rare Breed was probably rushing to get everything out towards the end of development with the current political and legal climate and in a panic thinking they would miss out and lose their butt in development cost if it was all outlawed before the product got out.

Edit: corrected spelling my brain is fried from a rape case I just had in court this morning, LEO work is not what it used to be and courts are a circus now.

Has anyone had any luck getting spare parts (specifically a hammer)?

I have emailed RB, but nothing so far.

Hail mary:

Does anyone have a broken trigger they are willing to part out?

No broken triggers I have heard of but I have ordered parts from them , spare springs and screw heads as mine had a stripped screw and one week later they still haven't shipped. May order a spare locking bar since they offer them now if my springs ship.

A buddy has one. We ran it in an 80% lower I cut with a DeWalt router. It would not work for shit with a Wilson Combat BCG but ran fine with old assed beater DPMS BCG. I don't get it at all.

No ownership from Rarebreed
I have 2 $2kish+ custom builds that have the issue. All quality parts.

There has to be something with the BCG and lower tolerances because it ran with my garbage components but wouldn't with my gucci build.

I think it's a stacking issue between upper/lower/pin hole placement/carrier/barrel. Possibly some play with how fast the carrier is striking the trigger block as well. I know some of my uppers are difficult to close while others aren't, which indicates some setups are pushing the block farther forward than others.

Judging from the fact that this is ST that started a new brand to sell these and the lack of customer service it feels more like they don't plan on being around long when the ATF drops the hammer, pun intended, and want to get as much in sales as quickly as possible.

Rare Breed says "If you purchased from BDU last week, then you received a trigger that was produced after the inline change on 3/1 and are good to go!"
Well I have a trigger from BDU that was from that period that just arrived today (ordered April 8th) and again I don't believe them. I can see no in line changes to it that are visible to the eye, it appears identical to my first trigger. If they aren't wrong then the inline change is not the same as the notched locking bar that they sell separately now. I will be buying a locking bar anyway to have as a spare if it is needed but I already have spare mcmaster springs, roll pins and a dremel tip bought just in case so I can do ahrion's  V1 mod if their fix is no good or their new locking bar sucks.

Or it could be that LLC better fits the needs. Less liabilit, especially if SHTF

So a little advice from the group, have an older Rock river lower, probably have it since 99 or 2000, always reliable. Installed a rare breed today, seemingly no issues, functioned checked okay. Went to install the upper on the lower and it won't fit, the rear bolt carrier nub was catching on the bolt carrier group and she would simply not close. Cannot remember what the bcg is, the only other carriers I have in the house are youngs national match and with them installed, it closes but doesnt function obviously.

Attached File


Update was able to use a very thin piece of metal to push the nub forward, upper, lower closed, functioned checked okay. Outta spec bcg I presume.

I think the not being able to close it is normal, you have to kinda of slide the upper to the lower the opposite way you normally do.

My FN 15 Tac II has, imo too much play between the upper and lower. I switched out take down pins to try and get that play as minimal as possible. Fn did not allow for the adjustment of the two. So I wonder if that is what my issue is? Also, I think there is too much side to side play on the trigger and hammer pins. I have a tried a few different anti-walk pins and they are the same. has anyone just used regular pins or is it not possible?

Could be your lower, upper, bcg. There are so many factors. You don't need a piece of metal though. . .just pulled the charging handle back

Regular pins will 100% walk. I suspect your lower is not quite to spec, especially since other pins have the same issue. I wouldn't say it's a huge issue as long as the pins retain the trigger group and the group doesn't move a bunch in the lower. You should be fine.

The funny thing is, this is all typical timing and figment issues with legit M16s. These are normal problems when running select fire components. I’m also working on a sear (locking bar) modification with a set screw to allow “adjustable timing”. It’s not a buffer issue.

Thanks for the tip, just pulled the charging handle back a bit, and they joined smoothly, lol, been years since I've played with them. Need to reeducate myself again. Thanks again.