Jeebus!

Unfortunately this thread wont help you make a C8, they have different specs again and many different assembly choices to the L119A1. It is important not to confuse them, the UK never had the C8, despite what mis-informed websites may suggest.

One of the reasons for creating this thread is that with access to Colt Canada, British Army armourers and actual parts, I can create a very accurate picture of the L119A1 and hopefully dispel some myths along the way.

I could measure the upper, but without a 3D scanner or similar its going to be hard to provide anything useful.

I am currently leaving the US Diemaco uppers alone without milling modification that I have and simply re-anodizing them Colt Canada grey. It's less clone correct looking but it also has some merit in being able to tell its a clone and also work with F marked front sights. Also I paid $600 for one of my uppers and only a little less for another due to rarity/none being on the market at the time so I loathe to cut those!

I think for most people, a standard cerro upper with the correct anodizing would make a better clone than a take-off Diemaco upper in the wrong color. If I recall correctly, the forgings I am using for those uppers does not have any M4 marking so 1913 could be engraved easily.

Yea, I saw that. I tried bidding on the A1 carry handle to get the hat and patch at least a month ago. I didn't meet the reserve amount despite being the highest bidder ($600). Turns out his reserve amount was $1,000! He then relisted it starting at $1k of all things. The whole reason for bidding was to purchase the A1 carry handle to replace my Diemaco A1 carry handle that is worn and to get the Colt Canada merch as a bonus. Mr. Rollerskates way overvalues his Diemaco collection.

The auction ended early soon after and then the "L119A1" upper appeared. I suspected the proof marks were fake, plus the photos don't show the Diemaco forging codes on the BCG. No one is going to pay six grand for a Diemaco upper (Colt import) with Colt parts.

Here was the old listing:

Gunbroker Link

Gunbroker Image (for when the listing goes away)

Thanks for the information. As for the Canadian Spec upper, I think i'll just eyeball it, haha. I'll create a new dedicated C8 forum in the near future. I will continue to subscribe to this thread because I am very interested in the L119 series of rifles. Hell, I might just create a replica L119 lower and used a modified BCM SFW upper (or reuse my C8A3 upper and change the furniture, remove triad). They did use non-F marked sights for a short while, but I might have to get someone to help me custom make a beefier front sight block to complete the look. If I go the L119A2 route, I'll have to SBR it. I may have a source for a replica L119 ambi clawmount endplate (Magpul ASAP is a good backup) and I do happen to have a spare Diemaco buttpad which would go nicely with a Colt N1 stock.

Thanks again for the info!

This thread is awesome.  Appreciate your work OP.

This thread is hopefully about to move a lot faster.

I got my parts back today. I have joined forces with a local anodizer and we have created a near perfect copy of Colt Canada anodizing.

It took FOREVER with lots of parts being anodized and then not being quite right, but its so good now I think I'm going to offer it as a service to the very few Colt Canada cloners out there so we can all have perfect finishes

Here is what I got back today, I'll create threads on the most interesting of the projects (L119A1, L119A2 and BHD CAR).



Here is a 100% real, Anodized by Colt Canada in their factory upper, next to my 'clone' anodizing lower. I put a standard Aero precision lower in there for a color reference for normal black, as well as an actual color chart of you want to load it up on your screen in Capture 1 or something to normalize it for your monitor.



My aim is to build out the lower and also load up the pictures of the completed upper you see there over the weekend and keep this thread going.

This is a cool thread. I have no desire to build one myself but I can appreciate the depth and effort being mad here.

Looking forward to seeing more updates.

OP, very cool thread!  I’ve liked the L119A1 as soon as I saw one.  I ended up building a quasi clone based off a Colt 6921SP 10” upper.



I’ve got a lot of SBR’s and this one is one of my favorites.  Obviously yours is going to be on a different level.

Awesome updates. I want to do this. Really want an A2

Amazing updates man! Thanks for the valuable info on the finishes!

The person who did your finishes, does he have an FFL to send completed 80% (more like %100) lowers to? Or will I have to send it without it being milled?
I have 2 blank forged lowers and I plan on engraving/milling a C8A3 and a C8-CQB.

Also, Diemaco/Colt Canada mills off the exposed threads off the buffer tubes. Is there a machine shop that can do that?

I like your clone, I remember saving your pic as inspiration before I started this project!

I am am 07/02 and we are doing the finishes here, so it could be 80, finished, NFA, whatever.

I noticed that on the lower receiver extension, I might be able to do it on the lathe if I go slow. What I really want to find is a supplier of 7075 raw aluminum tubes.

That's awesome to hear! Thanks!

As for a raw supplier for receiver extensions , I have no idea who would supply them...

I might have a source for original 2 position C8 receiver extensions with the trimmed threads, but will have to be converted to a 4 position (comes with sand blasting and refinishing).

I will update you on the progress on getting it over the border.

Excellent thread!

Attached File

Not trying to derail, but what is the laser thats on these rifles?

Awesome thread, OP. Thanks for starting it and posting your progress. Will you be offering this color anodizing service? I have some receivers I would like anodized in this color.

Also, braceman dies great work. He's done work for me and I couldn't be happier with it.

That's gotta be a great feeling getting all of those components back after all the research and work (and money) put into them. Can't wait to see the finished projects. Thanks for updates!

Hmm, I have a bunch of spare diemaco parts sitting around, may have to assemble one of these... Is the real barrel a C MP marked 10" factory cut, dated and stamped on the inside behind the handguard?

In for anodizing

The SAS guys in Kandahar city doing low-profile stuff predominantly had aimpoints in early 2009. CompM2s as far as I could tell. But they were doing urban vehicle and small compound hits.

OP that anno looks amazing

great thread and great carbine to clone.  do you know what size the gas port is on these 10" barrels ?  is it the same spec as the colt 10.3" barrels ?  .070 i believe

Yup, same size as Mk18, 0.070"

It's a fussy gun due to it being so short, it runs hot ammo just fine, but it won't run match ammo or anything even slightly underpowered.

I think this is relevant.  Jump to 2:11

This is the video that inspired me to clone Diemaco/Colt Canada rifles two years ago. After all my research, I realized that I couldn't import them...  However, I like to think that I have done exceptional in collecting hard to acquire Colt Canada parts, some over the border.

What buffer are they using? My CQBR (Colt 10.3, .070 port) surprisingly runs even shitty .223 with Colt H2 buffer. Thought I'd have to drop to an H but she chugged along great, locked back on empty and everything.

H2.

My 10.3 runs Wolf.

The Canada gun does not.

That three tenths of an inch makes a big difference!

<style type="text/css">p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; line-height: 19.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000; -webkit-text-stroke: #000000; background-color: #ffffff}p.p2 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; line-height: 19.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000; -webkit-text-stroke: #000000; background-color: #ffffff; min-height: 14.0px}p.p3 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; line-height: 14.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000; -webkit-text-stroke: #000000}span.s1 {font-kerning: none}span.s2 {font-kerning: none; background-color: #ffffff}</style><p class="p1">....

Following on from my previous post about endplates, I have found that the GGG ambi endplate is an excellent substitute for the Diemaco/Colt Canada UK one.

It does have a GG&G logo surface lasered on a visible part, but it's actually incredibly easy to simply unscrew the ant-rotation piece and swap it over to the back. That way you get a blank visible surface when installed on the gun.

Continuing on the small parts theme, there are a couple of options for Diemaco/Colt Canada lower parts.

The early guns appear to have been comprised of mostly parts that match the same grey of the anodizing. Those would tend to be pre-2010/2011 according to the pictures I have collected.
The guns after 2010, or where armorers have done replacements are the darker black of modern Colt.
Of course, if your intention is to paint the gun, you don't need to care.

For those of us who want an unpainted gun, John Thomas of Retro Arms works does AMAZING work. I sent a bunch of real Colt parts to him to be re-parked using his retro method, which is intended for early M16 guns. However, it is a really good match for Diemaco anodizing, so you can be confident it's going to look great.

John Thomas and Braceman were really fundamental to getting some of the fine details right on this build so I owe them a debt of gratitude.

The color balance isn't perfect here but here are the finished John Thomas steel parts.



You will notice I didn't have the lower receiver extension nut refinished. The aluminum parts I did myself using my Colt Canada anodizing process. (Trigger guard and magazine button).

I'll start at the very back and work towards the front for the lower.

Diemaco/Colt Canada up until quite recently used 2 position lower receiver extensions (buffer tubes) and they are incredibly hard to source here in the USA.

So I ended up just using an early US made tube. The difference is that D/CC removes the threads closest to the rear on the tube and the US doesn't. As much as I want to be as exact as possible it was impractical to find the right tube right now, as it was a very good condition US 2 position cost me $140.

For my first build, I therefore used a US 2 position tube that was in great condition so I kept the US anodizing.



I am also building another L119A1 replica for a friend, and again I used a US 2 position tube. However he intends to shoot the gun a lot, and a 2 position is just not great for that. Going between slick/body armor and retaining the same position requires the stock be about 2 clicks out for most people, so I did the cheat used by Delta Armorers in the 90s.
I drilled some additional holes. I then re-anodized the tube in the Canadian Grey and it looks factory!



One of the other things you can do is simply use a modern 6 position buffer tube and have it re-anodized the correct color. 99% of people won't ever notice and it makes for a much more functional gun!

As people may have realized by reading this thread, I'm trying to be a bit of a stickler for the small details. So when I can't get Colt Canada parts or it would be impractical, I will try and use USA made Colts Manufacturing parts.
So for the takedown detent and spring, I used some brand new Colt parts from Brownells



I also did the same for the buffer detent and spring



And of course for the internals, a real Colt carbine spring and buffer. I am using an H2 buffer, which is the correct buffer for a 10" barrel and full auto use.
I suspect you'd get away with an H buffer for normal semi auto use as you wouldn't/shouldnt have any noticeable bolt bounce in semi auto.



Now that I have the lower receiver extension, the endplate and the small parts, what about the lower receiver extension retention nut? The modern US version of which is known as the castle nut.

Canada uses the old style nut as seen on pre M4 guns. The one with the round hole. I had to go find an old style wrench to be able to fit this! So for the guys with the TAPCO wrenches that don't know what this is used for, its used for the old nuts!



I decided to use a little blue loctite on the nut instead of staking it as I really should have, because I'm holding out hope I'll find a Canadian 2 position one day and swap everything over.

The last part of the rear of the lower, the stock!

This is one of THE hardest parts to find here in the USA, and I have been calling in favors, promising my first born son etc to get a lot of these parts. I managed to get a couple of the real Diemaco/Colt Canada stocks.
They look similar to the Colt USA early Carbine N stock, but thats where the similarity ends.They have a textured pattern on the stock, which is actually really comfortable, and its the giveaway for a real stock. No-one that I know of has ever bothered to make a clone.
Whereas the Colt stock is much copied by the Chinese and you have to watch for the fine details, if it has texture, chances are it's a real Canadian stock.

I was also told by my Colt Canada guy that they are a different polymer than the American stocks and are much less brittle at extreme low temperatures than the US products.

The other big difference is the rubber recoil pad. Now if you have recoil issues with 556 I think perhaps you need to re-evaluate your life choices, but the L119A1s have these, and thus so does my clone.
They are actually glued into place, and its a special low temp capable glue, so again it shouldn't come off, but it also ships with a zip tie, and 100% of the L119A1s I've seen with the stock have the zip tie fitted, so I fitted it too.

Here is the rear of the lower showing the stock, tube and Colt Canada nut.

If you don't like/can't get a Colt Canada stock, then there are many pictures of later guns (2010 on) having a variety of stocks.
The vast majority are the Magpul CTR in FDE (it's in the UK stock system so it can be obtained from the stores/armory) but I also have pictures of Vltor iMOD stocks, LMT SOPMOD etc, so there are a good number of choices.

Next I'll move onto the grip, selector and trigger

Lots of good info on Diemaco/Colt Canada, SAS weaponry, and some real D/CC parts.

This thread is awesome OP. A wealth of knowledge. You're a gentleman and a scholar.

I've had hands on with Chris' guns there, there are some things incorrect in the video specific to the British rifles.

The barrel length is actually 15.7" on the SFW and the CQB version is actually 10". (Not 15.9 or 10.5)
It's not a very heavy barrel, at least not forward of the gas block, the real simon sleeve internal diameter is only .625" so the barrel must be that or smaller...
Triad rails were never used on the British guns as they would have gotten in the way of the Simon Grenade.
Elcan was not used, they used carry handles and later Trijicon ACOGs.
The Ambi charging handle was not used on UK guns.
The import Diemaco guns were primary the 6520 A2 Gov gun, not the LE6920.

The upper in the video is very definitely Canadian and as such does not share the accessories seen on the UK SFW, so its something to bear in mind as you make a clone. I will eventually get round to making an SFW clone and I'll create a thread for it when I do.

I almost forgot that I used to have one of those 6520s!  I got it used from Bud's Gun Shop, of all places.  They were listed as police trade-ins.

Attached File

Attached File

Attached File

Attached File


The lower was charcoal grey, but the upper was black.  The BCG had the Diemaco markings, as did the inside of the pistol grip.

Great pictures!

For people making UK clone rifles now, take offs from those imports are what we need, unfortunately of course, lots of people know what they have so they are priced accordingly.

This thread is epic beyond proportions! That police-trade in "Made in Canada" Colt has a "MPD" bolt with a batch code. I really wish I could get my hands on some. I sold one Diemaco bolt, and I have possession of two. None of them have Diemaco bolts; they are Colt bolts with the electro-pencil "MPC" unfortunately.

Elucidate, I have a question for you. Would doing the "cheat used by Delta Armorers in the 90s" to an actual C8 two-position buffer tube ruin its collector value and me being forever cursed by the Diemaco gods and the hardcore collectors secret society? Would it just be better to take new 4/6 position buffer tubes and mill off the threads?

Because most/all of those Canada import rifles went to PD's, I've never actually seen one with an MPD bolt. They always had very worn Colt MPC bolts, I guess because they changed them out in the normal maintenance cycle. I had to source my carrier and my bolt separately.

On the tube, do what you need to do, but for the hardcore collectors, I know they'd rather have it completely original, even down to keeping the original anodizing even if its very worn.
My personal preference, for a rifle that is going to get used is a 6 position that's re-anodized so its the right color, and also it'll cost less than finding an old 2 position that you'd then drill holes into.

I honestly don't think many people would immediately notice the threads or lack thereof on the tube, the most noticeable thing is the stock itself.

A really nice compromise on the stock is a Colt CAR stock with a rubber buttpad. I think thats what @DwayneHicks has on his.

Messing around here.

Real


Mine


I had to white color fill an existing serial, the real one above was actually anodized before serial number and then lasered in.

It's also interesting to note that the real upper wasn't roll marked like normal Colts, it was lasered in. I've actually got a few pictures of Colt Canada lowers with laser markings, they are all post Diemaco buy out, therefore some are Devtek D marked and others are the Colt Canada logo. I suspect this gun was always intended to be a demo gun as it also has the Canadian endplate, not the normal British one.

Very cool project!

I notice in Bartocci's video, the SFW upper he has does not have the small step at the aft end of the rail.  Is this only present on the UKSF L119A1 variants with the M1913 rail, and not present on the C7 variants with the Canadian Weaver spec rail?  Conversely in the video of Larry shooting the CQB variant in Sweden, he points out the step.

And just for my edification, the UKSF 15.7" SFW are designated L119A1, and the 10" barreled variants are  "L119A1 CQB" ?

Bartocci's does have the step, it's just not obvious in the video. I've had that upper in my hands. It's 100% kosher.

The 10" barrel variant started as an upper replacement program only, so it's still called the L119A1.

So the Land Number (L119A1) is the same but they have different NSN's for ID purposes.

The NSN of the fully accessorized 15.7" version that got the 10" upper upgrade is 1005-21-920-6546

The NSN of the issued 15.7" version is 1005-21-921-1160

The NSN of the issued 10" version is 1005-20-007-5878

Oh great, thanks alot. I am bitten by the bug...

Now I want to do a L119A1 build...

I can easily build an older Diemaco marked L119A1 like in your photos since it doesn't use as much unique parts that the Canadian service rifles do.
All I am missing is a Diemaco upper receiver, and I can use a Diemaco BCG for it while I make a clone Colt Canada (BCG marked "CC") with a Colt bolt for my Colt Canada C8-CQB.

Does anyone have a source for a Diemaco upper? There were two on Gunbroker, but now they both have been sold.
I'm assuming it doesn't matter if it is a Cerro Forge (Keyhole) or an Anchor Harvey (Split "A") upper?

As far as Diemaco uppers, lowers and parts, I'll have some for sale after SHOT.

My project is almost complete and I'll likely put on the EE anything left over to help cloners build similar guns.

this would be awesome

Do the British use Canadian spec KAC RAS handguards with two clamps, or do they use the standard version with only one clamp like the US M4/M4A1?

Also, does anyone know that at anytime, did the L119A1 ever use take-down pins that had an old school divet?

Moving forward with the L119A1 build, the lower is almost complete.

The Lone Star Ordnance grip is seen on all the older issue guns.





The trigger I won't take pictures/cover because its a generic Colt full auto group, and the pivot pin is again the real Colt pin I had made lighter in color by Retro Arms Works.

Another thing to note about the grips, is that a lot of the newer guns have Ergo Grips, Magpul MOE grips and assorted other options. It appears to be based on personal preference.

The L119A1's issued to the Royal Marines all have the Colt Canada A2 style grip.

The selector on the L119A1 is a single sided (non-ambi) Colt Canada selector, and the early guns all have the lever on the outside of the circle like retro colts. I have seen some newer ones with the selector halfway up like modern Colt but they are rare.

Another thing that can be seen in this picture is the Grenade ring, they are very often seen attached to the endplates to allow HK hook style slings to be attached.



Interestingly, every single one has a large tick on the right hand side. No markings exist on the right hand side of the lower.

Awesome thread elucidate!  I wanted to build one of these real bad 5-6 years ago.  Looked at the BCM version but I didn't like the barrel profile.  The barrel length from the FSP to the Simon Sleeve was visibly longer on the BCM compared to the real barrel.  Probably due to the 16 inch vs 15.7, sure looked like more than 1/4 inch.  Also some feedback from guys who built them was the front heavy feel.  So I never did one.  Love looking at yours and others though.  I love my LSO grips.  I have them on my 727 and M4 builds.  I also used mine on my issued M$ for about the last 4 years prior to retiring.  My favorite grip.

If anyone is looking for those Lonestar grips, search around paintball stores. Apparently after the company went under, all the grips were bought by paintball stores because they were popular for markers.



I managed to get 2 brand new A2 grips without spring detent holes and a complete A1 grip.

As per Lerch, spot on. The grips I have came from Numrich I think, and they were sans detent hole and trapdoor, but otherwise in perfect condition. I have seen tons of them on Paintball and airsoft guns.

Subscribed.

I have the BCM SFW upper, and I think it's a must if your doing a C8A3 build or a L119 (SFW config.) build. I know a guy who cut down his barrel to 15.7 and pins it to his clone SBR lower, but he says you can trim back the barrel's Simon Sleeve cut and have the exact same profile of a 15.7" but with longer threads to make it 16.25 inches to go the rifle/non-SBR route. That is what I'm going to do. I can't stand that 16.75" length.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that the A2 flash hider has more than enough threads to hide the extra length of the 1/2x28 threads. As for the Smith Enterprises Vortex flash hider with the Allen Engineering (now gone/new company: Ops Inc.) suppressor threads for a C8-SFW CanSOF build, maybe not so much. From analyzing a real Vortex flashider for my C8-CQB build, I think there are not enough threads. The C8 CanSOF build, if you were to use an Allen Engineering suppressor like the Mk.12, requires a Diemaco suppressor sleeve instead of the Simon sleeve. I think the Diemaco suppressor sleeves are offered on the civilian Colt Canada rifles, the SA15.7 rifle.

Thanks for the info.  I always kind of figured that but it seemed like a PITA for that 1/4 inch.  I did not understand why BCM wouldn't make them a true clone at 15.7 and then Perm attach an A2 FH to make it a true clone.  I had planned on cutting down a Colt 6721 HB and reprofile to CC specs and have a Simon sleeve made, a few members here did it.  All the dimensions used to be in a C7/ C8 thread a few years ago, but it is archived now.  Also BCM LOGO on the upper is a no go. But luckily I am over this build now.  They are very unique.

ETA; My issued M4 upper from 2004 to 2017 was a CC Contracted upper with the Devtec mark on it.  Always thought that was crazy since I was the only one in the unit that knew what it meant.

So where does one find a Colt Canada lower with either the maple leaf of Diemaco marked lower here in the States?