Lug1’s Palmetto CHF CL vs Palmetto CHF NITRIDE with PMCBRONZE TEST
 
In this thread we compare the above two barrels with each other, using mainly PMC Bronze from 4 different lot’s.  There were 10 shot strings fired with each barrel, with each lot.  All things were kept as equal as possible.  Both used Leupold VX-1 2x7.  Both fired out of a Caldwell led sled, prone,at ground level.  Both were also fire with XM193 and Independence just because.  Each box was divided in two.  10 rounds went to each upper from the same box.
 
Conditions were as follows: 03-09-2017
PSA CHF Nitride barrel test began at 10:10 Kestrel readingswind speed at 7’ 9.8 MPH gusting to 15.2 MPH. TEMP 71 degrees.  Relative Humidity 76%
Wind speed at 1’ off the ground where the Lead Sled waslocated 5.5 MPH average gusting to 7.3 MPH
 
PSA CHF CL barrel test began at 11:10 Kestrel readings windspeed at 7’ 12 MPH gusting to 18.1 MPH. TEMP 74 degrees Relative Humidity 73%.
Wind Speed at 1’ off the ground where Lead Sled was located6.8 MPH gusting to 9.2MPH
 
 Multiple lot’s of PMC Bronze were used as I have read frequently on ARFCOM how PMC Bronze sucks or
didn’t cycle their gun.  I had never hadthat experience.  At the conclusion ofthis test I found out the only constant remaining was PMC Bronze still cycled
my guns.  That was about it.  I was a bit surprised given what I thought was good performance with PMC Bronze in the past.  If I can get my spread sheets to load right, you can look at the data and decide for yourself.  I decided PMC Bronze was not nearly as accurate as I thought it had been in the past. 
 
These lots were accumulated over a few years so it is notlike I went out and bought this PMC Bronze from 4 different stores this
week. 
 
Other ammo used Independence55gr, Federal XM193, PRVI Partizan 69gr match, PRVI Partizan match 75gr.  

***I forgot to mention before the test began(shooting of the PMC Bronze) with each barrel we fired 10 rounds of Federal .223 through each just to get the barrel a little warmer than cold bore shots.  
 
I had lofty goals for this test.  But I was on my buddy Sethro’s range.  We were using his dad’s Chrony.  We had a friend drop by who had not shot in 2years due to health reasons.  Sethro’s dad needed to chronograph some loads, etc. We had a great time.  I did not take all the measurements I wanted to.  But I got a good portion of what I was after.  It got late in the day, there was actual work to do and travel time considerations.
 
Sorry I may not have gotten all the data that would be pertinent, eg. Chrono the Partizan. Photos of all groups.  Lack of video and video production due to my A/V guy JD not being able to make the
trip.  Hope you guys enjoy what I do have. 
 
I will answer anything I can.  I am going to post some place holders to get photo’s and spreadsheets in. Critique away, I will add anything I got.  This is merely a fun data collection, not necessarily meant as hang your hat on science.  I have no idea if anybody is even interested, but give a little hint as to what to expect, maybe, with PSA CHF NITRIDE barrels.  More tests to come with some hand loads on it at some time in the future.  We did shoot 10 rounds of Nosler 77gr Custom Competition handloads.  We have another couple of barrels that like the particular load we used.  We got 2.5MOA results with it.  Still looking for the photo on that not sure I have it.

iPotato video because JD couldn't come

PMC BRONZE in PSA 14.7" CHF NITRIDE 

Federal XM 193 Lot number smq130303s396

Independence 55gr Lot number FC132001-088 

In PSA 14.7" CHF Nitride

PMC BRONZE in PSA 14.7" CHF CL (FN blank barrel)

Federal XM 193 and Independence 55gr same Lot no. and box as the above post through
PSA 14.7" CHF CL (FN blank)

No I am not technologically gifted.  Sorry if this thread is hard to read.  Various photos from the day

ALSO, all target photo's are from the PSA Nitrided barrel.


No. 1  Simply our back stop at the range




No.2 Lot number 0721, no we were not dialed in yet, we thought we were.  I edit this to say we thought we were dialed in because we dialed in 1.5-2" low at 25 yards.  When we moved back to 100 yards this was our result.  Important to confirm your zero.  The initial 25 yard dial in was done with Federal .223 and not chrono'd.



No.3 Lot number 0567, we stopped measuring here because it is 4MOA ammo at best, period.


No.4 PRVI Partizan 69gr, previously measured at 2MOA ammo out of an 18" stainless ER Shaw barrel


No. 5 PRVI Partizan 75gr previously measured at 2MOA ammo in same barrel mentioned above

Ouch, PMC. Still good for plates and steel, but expected better.

Thanks for the heads up about this thread.  Looks like the PSA CHF Nitrided barrels will be a pretty good option for any future builds.  I have never bought any PMC .223/5.56 so its good to have an idea of what to expect if I ever did.

Previously I thought smaller PMC Bronze groups had been good.  10 round groups showing not that great. I was surprised.  Ok blaster ammo I guess.  

I have no Wolf at all. I would consider doing similar with Wolf Gold if I could find 4 different lot's.  But it would all be current.  That PMC was 3-4 years apart in production dates, oldest to newest. 

So this is an ammo test?
I see the Nitrided barrel has better velocity, Id be interested to know what barrel performed better accuracy-wise.

It is what it is.  I had a new PSA CHF Nitride barrel.  I had a PSA CHF CL barrel almost identical.  I had been wanting to test PMC Bronze to see if it was as good as I had thought in the past.  Or if it was really as bad a arfcom says it is.  

What I provided is some data.  See where I say I wanted to do more and ran out of time.  This is mainly what I accomplished.  More to come another time.  

The CL barrel was used in my CHF barrel test.  It is archived, I used good ammo on that test.  That barrel is documented as to what it can do.  Since I was not using known good ammo this is what I did, as I started more interested in what PMC Bronze would do.  Some may find interesting some may think it's junk.  I am not offended either way, just wanted to post what I was able to get done.  

The one thing I found out, is PMC Bronze is not as good as I had thought.  

I just noticed you comment on PMC .223/5.56. 

It is important to note this is .223 Bronze and not 5.56 X-TAC.  I won't even hazard a guess on X-TAC.  I may try to get some data on it in the future. 

Why not use some quality ammo instead of FMJ, if the point is to test accuracy?

Sample sizes of 1 are not all that reliable in any event.

First of all, if you actually read the first post it may clear some of this up for you.  Bottom line is I had a new barrel, and I also wanted to see if PMC Bronze was as bad as reported on arfcom, and it just about is.  It still cycles every gun I own though as proven by this test.

Second, I agree and have said so many times in the Tech forum sample sizes of 1 are not a reliable end all source of information.  But I have seen nothing on the PSA CHF Nitride barrels posted to date, so now we have some data, regardless of what it scientifically proves or doesn't.  

Third, if you were interested in providing more information you can buy the barrel here and get some ammo here.  I would be very interested in any results you provide, regardless of sample size provided.

I had fun doing it, it is optional to click and read.  I do hope others will read before critiquing.

Great post! I learned something here.

I think I have some xtac laying around. We may have to go test it when I get back to town.

Appreciate the testing and write ups.

1 you need to consolidate the data-way to haphazzard

2 barrel profiles????????????????????????????????????

Thanks for the suggestion.  I am not a magazine writer, I don't even play one on tv.  Just posting simple stuff, data that I could collect.  If you have a template or a format that you prefer, please post or send.  I will try to follow it in the future if it will improve the quality of what I am doing.  Looking forward to your further input.

Pictures of barrels in first post.  

1 is an M4 carbine(obvious in the video), 1 is a midlength(I have never seen an M4 profile in a 14.7" midlength).  I did include they were both 14.7".  I have a 14.7 CHF CL midlength that I thought I had grabbed.  It was 50+ miles away when I opened the case.  I made that mistake, I rolled with what I had.
In the future I will find out if that made any difference in the velocities.   I kind of doubt it but you never know.

I might have a couple boxes in an ammo can somewhere??

We need to put up a back stop like Sethro's out at the farm!!!  

thanks for putting in the time and doing this.

I'm really interested in the 14.7 mid CHF Nitride barrel, but there are NO reviews out there on them. I want to pick one up to compare to my 14.7 mid FN CHF CL barrel, but I don't feel like spending $190 just to do a test!

Thank you for posting your data OP. I will continue to use PMC as it is reliable for me and I like the brass. Don't shoot for groups much anyway

I still have a couple of cases at least of PMC bronze.  I have always liked it.  It has always cycled ALL of my rifles.  Until this test, I had rarely shot it for more than groups of 3.  I had always overestimated how "good" it was.  I am not bashing it, maybe it sounded like it, I was just shocked it isn't as good as I thought it was for accuracy.  

Learning new things all the time.  As soon as we get some more time I have 300 rounds Federal Gold Medal Match and 500 rounds of IMI Razorcore both in 77gr, I just got in.  

We will be doing similar type testing through only Palmetto CHF barrels.  The one and only nitride we have will be included  This should offer more info about the barrel itself.

I will see what I can do on this.  I have 14.7 FN's, 14.7 PSA FN's, and 1 14.7 PSA Nitride all in CHF.  

Cool! Looking forward to your results.

Fellow Texan here.  Where's the farm at as far as a general area is concerned?  I've got 44 acres 5 miles outside of Mt. Enterprise in East Texas with 50, 100, and 200 yard ranges set up.

I'm surprised the Prvi Partizan 69gr. Match ammo did as poorly accuracy-wise as it did.  It averages about 1.5 moa out of any scoped AR that I own.

Cooke county

Partizan has bested at 1.75 MOA out of one of my guns, but I have since replaced that stainless barrel.  It started opening up after about 5-6000 rounds.  It now has an FN CHF CL barrel and hasn't shot any Partizan as of yet.  Both barrels 18".  Not at all suggesting your results are flawed.  But 10 round groups tend open up I have found.

*whenever I do these tests we generally put 30lbs in the bottom of the lead sled and use a velcro strap around the handguard to hold it secure to the sled.  Also the range we are shooting on is marked at 100, 200, and 300 yards.  We could shoot 700 at an angle but we would have to prep(mow).  He also has a 70 yard pistol trap.  Catches most lead and has 3 metal plates.  

20-round groups would more than likely open up even more.  50...even more.  100...well, you get it.  It stands to reason that the more rounds you shoot into a group, the greater the chance of a flyer, whether a variance in the ammo or shooter induced.

Although I usually shoot 10-round groups, IMO 5-round groups are a good indication of your guns POTENTIAL.  10-shot groups or more are more of a test of the shooter.

I've been interested in the new nitride CHF barrels. Thanks for the test, OP.

I shoot the 10 round groups based on public opinion of the first one of these I did.  I get it, where does it end.  But bottom line is, it is a pretty reasonable standard for this weapon.  Maybe not so much for a bolt gun. 

I am not one of those hard line 3, 5, or 10 round group people.  They all speak to something.  For what I am doing on here, when I get a chance and not trying to stretch ammo, I will continue with 10 round groups.

I can see at some point doing 5 round groups if I have too many guns to test and to few rounds to shoot, but trying hard to plan and stick to a 10 round schedule.

I want to do a hand load test.  Problem is where is the sweet spot?  One load is awesome with one gun and less awesome in another.  So for now we are sticking to manufactured ammo with multi barrel comparisons.