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Posted: 7/26/2012 10:32:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Interesting. I had wanted a 3D printer for a while, but the possibility of printing my own lower helped make up my mind. I think you'll find any number of asshats that will try to regulate what you can or cannot print out on one of these. There are already people using DMCA takedowns for things on Thingiverse, even if they are derivatives or original work. There is a perfect example on Wired.
ETA: Here's an interesting combination 3D printer and mini CNC called PopFab. |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 2:37:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Also here on "Popsci":
http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2012-07/working-assault-rifle-made-3-d-printer |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 6:28:15 PM EDT
[#3]
I was interested in doing this, but it cost me $30 to print a model of similar mass at school, and I can get a lower for not much more than that. Plus, the school might not appreciate me printing guns.
Congrats on the awesome project. I think a 3D printer is the coolest machine I've ever used. |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 7:07:53 PM EDT
[#4]
that stainless 3d printer is pretty sweet too prints the steel with a binder than replace the binder with brass, seems as though there may be some flaws in that metal though basically a cast but complicate that with infusing 1 metal through the other...
I'm curios how well some of the low end printers would hold up to this task. There's a book to build your own and several (probably hobby level) machines out there for under $500 I'd rather have a cnc for this sort of part but as a 3d animator the 3d printer is near to my heart. when i was in high school we went to fisher price they have a rapid prototyping 3d laser printer. It used a light sensitive resin that would harden as the laser hit the surface, the resin cost $1000 per gallon in the late 90s and thee material was said to break down after a few years. They gave us all small castle towers with mortar lines and windows cut out as well as a double helix inside the castle. These pieces were the size of your average rook on a chess board. i wonder if you could just lay a sheet of carbon fiber or nylon mesh between layers to really make a strong part? would leave some cleaning up to do... |
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Posted: 7/27/2012 8:15:15 PM EDT
[#5]
And Have Blue pops up again. You've come a ways from the cuecat.
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Posted: 7/28/2012 12:02:25 AM EDT
[#6]
Anyone offering a printer that will do, say, 20"x10" objects? I ask because I'd feel best about doing a CavArms type printed lower, with integrated buttstock and grip. This takes a lot of the sketchy potential weak points out of the equation (and saves $).
As far as the heat concern goes... I actually get the feeling that you'd have to do some serious FA mag dumps before the upper rec got hot enough to affect the lower at the forward-most contact point. Maybe not though... |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 3:39:18 AM EDT
[#7]
Would it be possible to print 30rd magazines?
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Posted: 7/28/2012 7:28:22 AM EDT
[#8]
While haveblue has proven you can imitate an ar 15 lower in abs printed plastic, What needs to happen next is a lower over designed for the materials properties. I kinda doubt a 3d printed lower would hold up to a clearing drill. The plate aluminum bolted together lower with some abs printed interior walls would effective. I wonder how cheaply the buffer tube engagement piece could be cnc-ed out of aluminum? http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j184/mag-lock/AR15MOD2.jpg As others have pointed out, an 80 percent lower is a more economical boom stick. If you are looking to really piss off the powers that be, 3d print a 45APC liberator.  Hide your dawg. |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 12:47:38 PM EDT
[#9]
http://printingtomars.blogspot.com/2012/07/frame-assembly.html
I've been working on building a large 3D printer and automated fiber winder, my objective is mostly to produce aircraft parts but as soon as I'm done calibrating I'm going to try printing a lower. The above link is to assembling the frame. Is the reinforced AR-15 lower .stl available anywhere? If not it should go up on thingiverse. |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 5:04:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Wow. Awesome! I didn't see a serial number or any info about who manufactured it - is the lower registered? You don't have any idea what you're talking about do you? |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 6:17:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow. Awesome! I didn't see a serial number or any info about who manufactured it - is the lower registered? You don't have any idea what you're talking about do you? Hence me asking a question - I'm trying to clarify what is unclear in my mind. I was under the impression that when a firearm was made, the manufacturer had to print their info on the receiver. Colt has their roll mark + a serial number + the address. I was always under the impression that manufacturing a firearm required some info to be present on the receiver. No need to start pointing fingers because some of us don't know everything under the sun about firearms... |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 7:01:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow. Awesome! I didn't see a serial number or any info about who manufactured it - is the lower registered? You don't have any idea what you're talking about do you? Hence me asking a question - I'm trying to clarify what is unclear in my mind. I was under the impression that when a firearm was made, the manufacturer had to print their info on the receiver. Colt has their roll mark + a serial number + the address. I was always under the impression that manufacturing a firearm required some info to be present on the receiver. No need to start pointing fingers because some of us don't know everything under the sun about firearms... You might read up on 80% lower legality to clear some things up. |
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Posted: 7/28/2012 11:02:05 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow. Awesome! I didn't see a serial number or any info about who manufactured it - is the lower registered? You don't have any idea what you're talking about do you? Hence me asking a question - I'm trying to clarify what is unclear in my mind. I was under the impression that when a firearm was made, the manufacturer had to print their info on the receiver. Colt has their roll mark + a serial number + the address. I was always under the impression that manufacturing a firearm required some info to be present on the receiver. No need to start pointing fingers because some of us don't know everything under the sun about firearms... Hey it's all good, no need to sweat the knuckleheads. Individuals can manufacture as long as it is for their own personal use. Nothing is serialized, and it cannot be sold/transferred to anyone IIRC. |
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Posted: 7/29/2012 2:58:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Wow. Awesome! I didn't see a serial number or any info about who manufactured it - is the lower registered? You don't have any idea what you're talking about do you? Hence me asking a question - I'm trying to clarify what is unclear in my mind. I was under the impression that when a firearm was made, the manufacturer had to print their info on the receiver. Colt has their roll mark + a serial number + the address. I was always under the impression that manufacturing a firearm required some info to be present on the receiver. No need to start pointing fingers because some of us don't know everything under the sun about firearms... It's a somewhat logical assumption. Colt sells firearms, so is required to do so in order to be able to transfer them to their dealers for then retransfer/sale to an individual. There is an allowance within firearm law that allows an individual to manufacture a firearm for personal use with no requirement to have a license nor put a serial number on it. Also to clarify, registration is quite different from being serialized. Registration implies information about the firearm and owner is maintained in a registry, i.e., Canada's long gun registry. Serialization is just for identification. |
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Posted: 7/29/2012 5:04:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Individuals can manufacture as long as it is for their own personal use. Nothing is serialized, and it cannot be sold/transferred to anyone IIRC. Nothing says the firearm thus made cannot be sold. Just that it cannot have been made for the purpose of resale. ATF "strongly advises" even homebuilders to serial their firearms for identification and recovery if lost/stolen, but absent some new laws, cannot require that serializing be done by non-licensees. |
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Posted: 7/29/2012 10:20:46 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 7/29/2012 10:46:42 PM EDT
[#17]
I've been working with rapid prototypers for a dozen years. My thoughts on the matter.
http://johnbearross.blogspot.com/2012/07/you-cant-stop-signal-part-2-3-d-printed.html Best, JBR |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 6:12:27 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 7/30/2012 11:36:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Add another big mention, Forbes article : The End of Gun Control?
I’m in favor of tighter gun control and a ban on weapons that are unnecessarily powerful but I’m afraid that technology will soon make any legislation that limits the availability of any kinds of guns ineffective.
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Posted: 7/30/2012 11:43:53 AM EDT
[#20]
In reference to the whole gun control argument:
You know the proponents won't stop simply because technology could allow us to build the stuff in our garage. The only question that remains in my mind is: What crazy laws or regulations will they dream up to destroy these kind of projects? |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 11:58:37 AM EDT
[#21]
I smell the fumes of the black helicopters circling my facility ...
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Posted: 7/30/2012 1:15:51 PM EDT
[#22]
It is on Tech News Today today. Skip to about 35 minutes in.
http://twit.tv/show/tech-news-today/553 |
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Posted: 7/30/2012 10:40:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I smell the fumes of the black helicopters circling my facility ...
http://www.laruetactical.com/images/manufacturing/AA5E2044.jpg Nice! How often you use those? |
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Posted: 7/31/2012 4:38:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I smell the fumes of the black helicopters circling my facility ...
http://www.laruetactical.com/images/manufacturing/AA5E2044.jpg Nice! How often you use those? Probably works out to 'bout once a week ... Like the waterjet, can't live without ' em. 
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Posted: 7/31/2012 8:33:51 AM EDT
[#25]
On Reason magazine's blog:
http://reason.com/blog/2012/07/30/do-3d-printers-make-prohibitions-impossi "The next time your control freak friends start in on their latest litany of should-be-banneds, tell them that their arguments are now irrelevant. Tell them why. And savor their sweet tears of despair." 
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Posted: 8/1/2012 3:06:01 AM EDT
[#26]
If y'all want some old entertainment, watch "The Twilight Zone", 1963 season 4, episode 3, " Valley of the Shadow". They have a machine that all you have to do is take a coded card out of a file cabinet, Gun .38 (Police), insert it, and presto! it prints a loaded revolver. It's running on youtube.
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Posted: 8/1/2012 10:31:19 AM EDT
[#27]
Look at this, one of the biggest Hungarian online newsportal:
http://www.origo.hu/techbazis/20120801-3dnyomtatoval-is-lehet-fegyvert-kesziteni.html They are talking about your project. 
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Posted: 8/1/2012 10:45:27 AM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 8/1/2012 11:02:03 AM EDT
[#29]
I love how forbes is like this is kind of scary but here's a link to a 3d printer you can get for $500 and here's the link to haveblues model...
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Posted: 8/1/2012 11:36:05 AM EDT
[#30]
I'd like tpo reiterate how awesome this is-
Totally fucking awesome. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 11:58:25 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
I love how forbes is like this is kind of scary but here's a link to a 3d printer you can get for $500 and here's the link to haveblues model... yeah, apparently no one in the media has ever heard of a block of aluminum and a home cnc mill, but they are all over 3d printing. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 4:38:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Well, the past week has been interesting, to say the least. I think I've given up on trying to correct people on the details.
TZLVredmist: Very cool! In fact, by definition of the 1968 GCA, you have in fact beaten me to making a 3D printed firearm! Would love to learn more - I'll have to drop you a line. thei3ug: Holy crap, haven't seen you in years! Yeah, the Cuecat project was my first slashdotting - this is the second... deflector_array: You can get 3D printers with that work envelope, but you're not going to like the price. Best to scratchbuild one to handle that size, or resort to gluing smaller sections together. PatriotAr15: 30 rounders should certainly be possible, though you'd ideally need to make your own spring from spring steel. Armed_Scientist: Yes, my reinforced lower is here. LaRue_Tactical: I am jealous! You may be interested in how to hack your machines to allow you to bypass the chipped cartridges. I wonder what sort of goodies you blurred out of your photo... Tony-Ri: Thanks for the heads-up - I semi-regularly listen to TNT, but missed this episode. Sarah Lane saying my name is now my new happy place. <3 <3 <3 Killjoy321: Indeed. I propose the following: "new technology" + "hot-button issue" = "dynamite newspaper headline" |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 6:03:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Add another big mention, Forbes article : The End of Gun Control? I’m in favor of tighter gun control and a ban on weapons that are unnecessarily powerful but I’m afraid that technology will soon make any legislation that limits the availability of any kinds of guns ineffective. What on earth does "unnecessarily powerful" mean? |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 6:24:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Very nice.
This has obviously gotten a lot of media attention! Well deserved, too. Modern autoproduction tech is going to change everything. People have been talking about this particular lower at work, on facebook, etc. People at work love the idea, people on facebook not so much 
I am very excited about the freedom computers are giving us in terms of communication and payment. I'm glad that they will also be giving us freedom in terms of what machines we can build. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 6:28:11 PM EDT
[#35]
What on earth does "unnecessarily powerful" mean? It means ‘whatever makes the writer uncomfortable.’ There is no masculine rationality. wink wink |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 7:23:45 PM EDT
[#36]
One issue I'm concerned about is what problems may arise from ITAR with regard to setting 3D models of gun parts loose on the web.
When Magpul made their EMAG, they presumably had to get State Department approval to hold conversations about manufacturing it overseas, much less to send out any models. But does the State Department differentiate between a manufacturer and an individual, or between "small arms technology" and 3D models of receiver geometry? My (limited) understanding is that they do not. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 8:21:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
One issue I'm concerned about is what problems may arise from ITAR with regard to setting 3D models of gun parts loose on the web. When Magpul made their EMAG, they presumably had to get State Department approval to hold conversations about manufacturing it overseas, much less to send out any models. But does the State Department differentiate between a manufacturer and an individual, or between "small arms technology" and 3D models of receiver geometry? My (limited) understanding is that they do not. the models are just basically schematics its not ITAR until you are making them for resale. honestly it's not rocket science to model a receiver I could do it with an afternoon an existing receiver and a set of calipers. I am inclined to start off with a hobby level cnc or 3d printer, most likely the cnc because i could do a heck of a lot more with it. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 8:46:00 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
the models are just basically schematics its not ITAR until you are making them for resale. honestly it's not rocket science to model a receiver I could do it with an afternoon an existing receiver and a set of calipers. I am inclined to start off with a hobby level cnc or 3d printer, most likely the cnc because i could do a heck of a lot more with it. But if a US company were to take a US-made gun component model off thingiverse.com and were to contract it out to Hong Kong for manufacture, wouldn't the State Department view at least one party as being in violation of ITAR? If so, who? The model's creator? But they weren't doing it for profit, it was shared freely. The contracting company? The model is in the public domain, they contributed nothing in the way of technology to the equation. |
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Posted: 8/1/2012 10:19:05 PM EDT
[#39]
hypothetical situations are just that. This is a thread based on a personal use 0% lower... |
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Posted: 8/2/2012 12:07:42 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
If y'all want some old entertainment, watch "The Twilight Zone", 1963 season 4, episode 3, " Valley of the Shadow". They have a machine that all you have to do is take a coded card out of a file cabinet, Gun .38 (Police), insert it, and presto! it prints a loaded revolver. It's running on youtube. Saw the original show did ya ? 
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Posted: 8/2/2012 3:44:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If y'all want some old entertainment, watch "The Twilight Zone", 1963 season 4, episode 3, " Valley of the Shadow". They have a machine that all you have to do is take a coded card out of a file cabinet, Gun .38 (Police), insert it, and presto! it prints a loaded revolver. It's running on youtube. Saw the original show did ya ? Yep, I am that old; the show was in black and white, but our Motorola only SHOWED black and white! |
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Posted: 8/2/2012 4:13:50 AM EDT
[#42]
So now the ATF can just e-mail guns to the mexican drug lords. Aint technology great?!
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Posted: 8/2/2012 11:06:06 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Killjoy321: Indeed. I propose the following: "new technology" + "hot-button issue" = "dynamite newspaper headline" yeah thats what I thought too, its going to be fun when 3d metal printers finally come down in price |
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Posted: 8/3/2012 8:16:27 AM EDT
[#44]
Impressive!
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Posted: 8/3/2012 7:18:20 PM EDT
[#45]
So if I print a lower or buy an 80% lower what is the difference?
I get the point about anyone can do it? However when you get it, print it and add the parts are you braking the law or is it OK if you can legally own a firearm as long as you do not sell it? |
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Posted: 8/3/2012 7:32:03 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
So if I print a lower or buy an 80% lower what is the difference? I get the point about anyone can do it? However when you get it, print it and add the parts are you braking the law or is it OK if you can legally own a firearm as long as you do not sell it? Making your own receiver is neither breaking nor braking the law. You are allowed to build your own gun. 80% lowers are legal to finish yourself, but it's not because it's hard to finish them. You're buying a chunk of metal that the ATF doesn't discriminate from ore in rock and converting it into a receiver. With a printer you're buying plastic rolls that the ATF doesn't discriminate from dinosaur fossils and converting it into a receiver. So long as you're not building them to resell, it doesn't matter if you're buying raw materials, 80% lowers, plastic, or unicorn farts. As long as they're for personal use (the definition of "not to resell" is unclear - you can resell an 80% lower you've finished if you want. Selling 2 of them in a year is probably OK. Selling 10 of them in a year probably isn't) it doesn't matter. It's perfectly legal. I saw mention in a post on another forum along the lines of "Great. How long until someone prints a machine gun?" The irony of course is that the difference between a semi AR-15 receiver and an automatic M-16 receiver is very small and can already be accomplished in most garages and any modern machine shop. Making them more available through the 3D printing method just proves these laws to be more invalid than ever. |
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Posted: 8/3/2012 7:33:58 PM EDT
[#47]
legally there is no difference between printing a lower or finishing an 80%
neither require an ffl and both are legal as long as the finished gun complies with all local and federal laws so no building your own full auto or sbr or suppressor. You can even sell them once your bored with them but if it can shown or misconstrued in any way that you built it for the purpose of resale then you are getting in to some hairy territory. if you want to you can make a gun out of a block of wood or a caulk gun and it's perfectly legal as long as it complies with local and federal firearms laws. |
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Posted: 8/3/2012 7:40:27 PM EDT
[#48]
I am curious how something like this would play out in a pistol format.
where i live pistols have to be registered. So if I built a pistol I think I would just have to take it to the sherrifs office and register it. |
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Posted: 8/3/2012 7:43:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
I am curious how something like this would play out in a pistol format. where i live pistols have to be registered. So if I built a pistol I think I would just have to take it to the sherrifs office and register it. Correct. To avoid some headache it would probably need a serial number so you should probably engrave or emboss one in any receiver you would print. |
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Posted: 8/3/2012 8:55:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
From the replies: If we outlaw guns, only those with 3d printers will have them!
It's only a matter of time before someone starts marketing "pre-ban" 3D printers. First thing you should do with your 3D printer is print another 3D printer ....jic |
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