Awesome and congrats!  He did a set for my H build and I'm still amazed at how beautiful they came out!  Of course HaveBlue83 himself does some amazing work in particular on ARMS rings.  A talented family indeed - not to mention a huge boon for crazies cloners like us, LOL!

He did my ARMS rings as well.

Once I get everything together I’ll need to take some detailed pics so you all can pick it apart, haha.

If you love heartbreak invite Hunterex and Lancecriminal86 to critique

Prob easier to just give them your credit card now.

ETA: Def looking forward to seeing your build!

Just wow, and if I am not correct then please tell me if I am wrong, that these rails marked like this were not used on actual Mod 1 builds.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/932071587

What the actual fuck. About to part my Mod 1 out

But yours is not NIB.

Also thinking there's fake and troll bids.

Well I suppose we will see if it's paid for fairly shortly, apparently there is one in the ee as well for a strong price

So uhh...do late mod 0 handguards cost that much lol?

Sort of.  If you combine a vintage PRi Gen 3 and a #38 PEQ-2-3 the package is getting up to where some of these FF RAS have been going for lately.   I think this linked RAS is an anomaly,  but things have gone bonkers lately. Pricey game to begin with and getting more expensive by the day.

ETA - If veracity isn't all that required, current Gen 3s are $300 or less with no availability issues.

It'd be nice to have all the correct parts but at the same time I guess I could have things that aren't necessarily correct and they'll just be place holders. I only have so much patience and finding things is tough! Like, let me find a proper 2-3, correct upper and I'll toss on a new production handguard and say good enough, for the moment.

I think Shark still has some C AF uppers.  I snagged one not too long ago from him.  Just a FYI.  Was like $140 shipped or there about.

Correct, that type was never used on mod 1s...late USMC mod 1s have those markings but with way smaller text.

I wouldn't even pay near that much for an M4 Match (FF) marked rail...

Step one

You dirty cunt…I was hoping my EFORM 4 would have been approved by now.

Feels like heresy....

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ETA: first time removing fixed/A1 stock on the Hydramatic repro lower.  I'm pretty sure it got darker outside and I felt a slight chill in the air when I started installing the carbine extension.  On a brighter note, with the change up in parts I'm gonna need a new rattle can job to tie it all together.

I almost don't want to see that thing get painted again. It looks perfect like that.

I'd have to agree, I kind of like the mix and match of colors here.. haha

Awesome thanks! Order possibly placed lol

I'll wait to see what @SecretSquirell says.  At the least I think I'll throw one of my very roughed up mottled A1 grips on so blend in something from lower a bit better

I kinda like it as-is. An old, mottled grip would look tits. Maybe splash some paint on the glass, but in a slightly different color/shade.

With a little carboned up CLP rubbed in on big areas to add some dirty oil character to the paint.

I am hitting the range on Sunday so should be the perfect opportunity

Welp.. I just placed an order with PRi for a FDE GenIII tube and FDE Recce rail.  And down the Mod H rabbit hole we go...

Looked on page 1 and did not see specifics on upper receiver or even lower receiver markings.  Says "Colt or Diemaco marked," but no other specifics given.  What era/markings are we talking about for Colt?  How about an approximate date range/era when the Mod H was issued so I at least have a starting point if I need to track down a complete commercial rifle that has the proper upper receiver?

Lower?  M4A1 good to go?  I have a couple of LE6920 SOCOM carbines that are in need of clone transformation...

Oh yeah, were these Cerakoted before being issued or are all the ITW pics of the Mod H I've seen rattle can jobs?  In other words, should I have ordered a black tube and recce rail or am I good with the Cerakoted FDE?

CPshooter1

Of the 2x Mod H’s we had on my team, one had a “painted upper / lower” receiver with an FDE (from PRI) Gen III tube and no Recce Rail.  Basically this upper was a re-barrel of the original Mod 0 with the ACE Stock added in place of the original A1 stock.  (The Mod 0’s had M16A1 “left-over” / “readily available” lowers).  

The other had a completely new upper due to the original Mod 0 “host” being out of tolerance and was completely replaced by PRI with a new upper.  The upper was black and had an FDE tube with a black Recce Rail and the lower was a re-work of the Mod 0 (still painted) A1 lower with ACE Stock in place of the original stock.

Some of us replaced the pistol grip with what was available cir 2007-12 ish (2009 was when the H’s started to be filtered in depending on when the ODA was deployed / home for the re-fit) so anything of that vintage would be correct to include the original A1 that came with the lower.

The Optics were “left-overs” / “re-uses” of the Mod 0’s optics which were issued at one each 3-10x and 2.5-8x per Mod 0 (one of each was issued).  The 3-10x was the original / old school and the 2.5-8x came with the PVS22’s so there was enough “realestate on the rail” to mount it and because the PVS22’s are supposedly maximized at ~8x.

A1 lower.

For the upper, Colt Keyhole, or keyhole no C.  Check the Mod H thread, it's got better H info there.

There were three rough iterations of the mod H.  Keyhole marked (no C) uppers were the apparent majority.

Are any of you guys using suppressor covers? I know they aren't clonetastic necessarily, but I'm shooting a match with mine in a few weeks and debating on throwing one on. Just wondering what brand fits and works well on the aem5.

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What cover is it?

@Zulu583 @teamjawbox

Many thanks for the info on the Mod H receivers.  I didn't realize there was a separate Mod H thread.  Will have to look for that and start reading.

Cheers!

ETA:  It sounds like I need to acquire some Nodak Spud/Brownells A1 receivers for my various Mk12 builds that are still in the works.  My first AEM5 is already home and I have another one in NFA jail, so I best get my shit together and start collecting the remaining parts.  I was debating just using a couple of my LE6920 lowers, but I don't think my OCD will allow me to use anything besides a M16A1 pattern lower for these.  It's just tough because I either go Colt and not have a real M16 pattern lower, or I go clone M16 lower and not have it say Colt.  I think the latter is the better approach though.  No Colt markings, but at least it looks the part upon first glance, right?  

What do you guys think is the best route to take for getting a M16A1 clone lower?  I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone is doing 80% lowers anymore, so is a Nodak or Brownells lower w/ their own markings basically my only option these days?  Is anyone out there still doing turn-key lowers that come engraved with fake Colt stampings/markings and truly look the part?

Unfortunately with the JJE acquisition of Nodak Spud the Nodak and Brownells are unavailable.  Nodak is now H&R and the pics they've posted of the H&R retro lowers look very promising, but they're not up for sale yet (should be this summer though from the looks of it).  

Aside from doing an 80% lower, you can check out Russian Paint (Intl Milco) and see if you can get in on a GM Hydramatic repro order, but the waiting list seems to be long and growing.  They are a premium price but they are the best repro M16A1 repro lowers anywhere, hands down, no question.  I purchased two GM Hydramatic lowers from them and still kicking myself over not snagging a H&R from them since they're not doing H&R anymore due to the resurrection of that brand via JJE/Nodak.

I think the best option would be to see if you can find a Brownells on the second hand market, do an 80%, or hold out for the new H&R line to be made available. Maybe someone has a Brownells squirreled away they'll let go for a fair price.  

If you want Colt marked though, an 80% is prob the way to go.

Link to Mod H specific thread

+1 on intl mil co. I have a GM and an H&R from them, there really is no beating them. Engravings just can’t compare to real roll marks. I think I’m going to pick up another GM while I can, they are 100% worth the wait. Might have to build another Mk12.





The Colt reissue lowers are nice and have true roll marks rather than engravings but aren’t really available without the rest of the rifle. Spendy, too.

A word of warning, if you go down the H&R/GM rabbit hole and you have an eye for detail you may start noticing the small parts that you need to make them correct. My GM and H&R have all original FCGs (neutered, of course) even though the only thing that’s visibly different without disassembling the rifle is the bolt catch. Both Hydramatics and H&Rs have bolt catches marked with numerals, some oriented upward and some upside-down. Some (not all) H&Rs also had dimpled pins…and even selectors.

Gorgeous!

BTW, are the markings on those Colt reissue lowers the correct ones?  I've only looked at one of them and it wasn't correct, haven't checked out of there's multiple ones.  Curious if you know if there's multiple versions of their reissue ones.

I second the NDS/Brownells A1 lower. Swapped out the PSA Stealth lower when they came back in stock last month and I definitely prefer the look at an A1 at a glance, especially since I’m going to rattle can my Mod 0 and the Colt markings would get somewhat filled in and hard to see anyway.

Which model was it that was off? The M16A1? I have one of the XM177E2s, it’s spot on compared to the one in the West Point museum reference collection.

NDS is the route I went, and I dont regret it. Quality per cost was 100% worth it imo, I imagine H&R being pretty kick ass with Mike there.

A1 all the 12s
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I think the one I saw was the M16A1 reissue.  I'll have to go back and check.  That said, I may be basing my "correct" markings off something different as I'm using the late mod 0 (gen 3) from the SH pic dump as my Colt reference as that's the issued rifle I've been basing my gen 3 clone off of.  I prob shoulda clarified that.  I'm not real up to date on those Colt reissues, guess I need to go look and see what's out there and if something would work for my late mod 0 clone.

Here's the lower from that issued gen 3 from the SH pic dump that I've been working off of (for the most part).  I think the Colt reissue I saw had the AR-15 roll mark. Which is still awesome, I'm just curious if they did a reissue like what was on that specific issued gen 3.  If so I'm going on a quest

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Ah, okay. Yeah, I don’t think they have done one along those lines yet. Just earlier ones so far. Maybe someday, as I think there may still be more to come. 5451780 would be late M16A1 production, 1973-1982, probably more at the tail end as I think 54XXXXX is supposed to be the end of that serial block.

I respect your full commitment to the process. There’s cloning, and then there’s cloning.

Many thanks to all of you for your replies in regards to the M16A1 lower options!

FYI - Here is a pic of the M16A1 reissue.  As you can see, it's not entirely correct with it saying "AR-15" next to the pony roll mark.

Ahh ok.  Well, maybe they'll do one in the future.  Will keep my fingers crossed.  For now the RP GM Hydramatic repro will be plenty sufficient, but would be very cool to have a Colt with those markings for that build.  And then I could move one of my GM repros over to the mod H

Thanks for the info!  Def gonna keep myself more in tune with what Colt is doing just in case.

Thanks for the pic!  That's the one I saw.  It's still cool as hell.  Just isn't the clone I'm looking for

Okay, okay, I think I'm dead set on the GM Hydramatic option.  Going to see if I can pick up 2-3 of them from INTL MIL CO.  I just like the all-business looking markings compared to the H&R logo, which looks like it's trying too hard to look like the Colt pony marking.  Can I assume INTL MIL CO is marking these exactly as they were issued for the Mk12 program?  INTL MIL CO says they are still engraved with their own manufacturer info inside the top of the trigger well, but I can accept that.  I'm just wondering how correct the rest of the markings are to those receivers issued in the Mk12 program.

I read on page 1 of this thread that the G.M. lowers were actually issued and used in the Mk12 program.  Any idea how many in terms of actual numbers or at least a percentage compared to Colt lowers were actually issued for the Mk12 program?

Out of curiosity, why do some of you like the H&R lowers for your Mk12s?  I see no mention of them being used in the actual Mk12 program, so is it just the quality/price point that makes them a decent alternative to the G.M.?

Thanks again, everyone!

Slightly off topic, Tactical Rifleman (Karl Erickson USASF-Retired) had Steve Holland on his podcast on Tuesday, some discussion about Mk12 SPR program, Flat Dark Earth, Mk262 etc, starting at about 1hr 22min point:

H&R lowers were used, just like GM Hydramatic and Colt.  The quality/price via Intl Milco was the same.  Granted he's no longer able to make them, but the price was the same as the GM when Intl Milco was making them.  I don't think the new H&R (formerly Nodak) has released pricing on their new line, but I may be behind on the latest news from them.  Last I heard they're testing out anodizing.

Chris at RP went through pretty extensive research in order to nail those GM and H&R lowers - followed original lowers on design, roll mark, and color match on anodizing.  Every detail was meticulously scrutinized and perfected to be the best repro he could make.  I can't stress enough how nice his GM and H&R lowers are.  Guy truly is an artisan and master of his craft.

I think people go with H&R for their MK12 clones based on a few things (obviously just my opinion):

1. If you're cloning a specific rifle that wore a H&R lower then you'll want H&R lower for your clone
2. You like the roll mark (it is cool after all)
3. Heritage and history behind the company and those lowers (which is the primary reason I went GM as I love the history how those original ones came to exist).  The old H&R as a company has a ton of history behind them.

Off topic but my first gun was a H&R single shot 4-10, got it on my 10th birthday.  I grew up on a farm so we got tools given to us as birthday presents  

@teamjawbox - fanstastic insight as always.  I appreciate it.

I'm already in contact with Chris @ RP/INTL.  Seems like a stand-up guy from the few emails sent back and forth up to this point.  I'm signed up for the newsletter and ready to smash the buy button as soon as I get the notification that the G.M. receivers are available again.  

Awesome!  They really are fantastic.  I so wish I would have snagged one of his H&R's.  

You're gonna love that thing!  And it'll look totally boss on your build.

ETA: I can't comment on percentage of each type used, I could only speculate that Colt would have been the majority with GM and H&R sprinkled in.  Maybe Lancecriminal86 or Hunterex can provide some info on that part.

I was about to type out this same information, lol.

@CPshooter1, get a lower from Chris at RP, they're the best clone lowers on the market! He puts a ton of research into every type he makes, including the exact anodizing color (some are dark gray, not black, which is 100% correct). Unfortunately, he isn't able to make the H&R receivers anymore, I'm really glad I bought one before he had to stop making them! The new H&R receivers from PSA or whoever acquired the company don't look anywhere near as good as the ones Chris had made.

All of the RP lowers are stamped/rollmarked, not laser engraved. This is a minor design aesthetic, but it actually makes a huge difference in the way the lower looks. The rollmarked lowers have metal flowing with the stamp, so there's deeper areas, shallower areas, unevenness and you can see the how the aluminum moved with the stamp. Laser engraving just looks to neat, uniform and sterile; it doesn't have any life to it. For myself and a lot of other cloners, we love the stamped/rollmarked look and each receiver's markings are unique.

I have a handful of receivers from Chris and I plan on getting more! They're pricey, but they're still cheaper than pulling apart the laser engraved Colt commemorative rifles just to get a suitable receiver. Also, Chris gets asked all the time to make a Colt lower with the prancing pony, which is a good way to have the phone immediately hung up on you, lol. He cannot and will not make Colt lowers. The closest you can get are his US Property lowers without the pony logo. Those don't interest me, since I can get a GM lower that's 100% correct.

Also, you'll never see his FFL markings, they're engraved where the trigger comes out of the lower, so it's very well hidden. In fact, he includes a piece of paper to tell your FFL where his FFL markings are, so they can record it in their logbook correctly. It's very easy to confuse the replica markings and record those in the logbook, lol. That's how good the lowers are!

So, @CPshooter1, that's another recommendation for the RP lowers. Trust us on this one and pick one up from Chris when he runs another batch!

That’s how M16A1 lowers were marked. By the mid-late 1970s they omitted the ‘Colt AR-15’ markings and centered the prancing pony. The ‘Serial’ prefix also disappeared sometime into M16A1 production (between 775XXX and 100XXXX serial blocks, don’t have my laptop right now so can’t find all my reference images).

M16A1 (603) SN 1049127

@USMCSGT0331 the Colt reissues are roll marked, not laser engraved. I agree with you 100% on the price aspect, especially if you’re just seeking a lower for a build. H&R and GM are cooler anyway!