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Posted: 9/12/2010 10:51:31 PM EDT
Does FN sell AR-15s (uppers, lowers, complete rifles) to civilians or are they restricted to military sales only?
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:53:06 PM EDT
no to civilians. you can find uppers, barrels, and bcg's once in a while though.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 10:59:13 PM EDT
Are they sold by private parties? Are there any dealers that sell their uppers, barrels and BCGs? It's not that I'm interested in purchasing one. It's just that my neighbor said that FN AR-15s could be brought in by an FFL dealer. I told him that I highly doubt that because they are only for military sales. Is my neighbor right? I hope not.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:21:54 AM EDT
An FN upper would be military surplus. They do surface from time to time. But FN doesn't sell AR/M-16 uppers to the the civilian market, ever.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:39:04 AM EDT
I have only seen FN marked bolts (not even bolt carriers) for sale in the public realm.

Once I saw a stripped FN marked 20" barrel being sold on gunbroker, the zip code was 28542, Camp Lejeune North Carolina. I passed.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 1:13:26 AM EDT
I've seen a few parts for sell here, including a new complete upper once. I suspect that these were surplus overuns and some .mil armorers took them. Used M16s including the uppers are simply crunched in a ball mill.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:31:09 AM EDT
I have a 20" A1 profile FN barrel. It came in an A1 upper (Lockheed foundry) and I have since put it in an A2 upper receiver.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:40:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 5:42:55 AM EDT by MSPRet]
I have a couple FN barrels, an FN upper, and an FN bolt. My FN barrels are among the most accurate AR barrels I own. There a couple on the EE right now and FN barrels usually go for about $200. There is one without the FSB for $105 and I have been kicking myself for not buying it (I have to many barrels now) but I still may buy it, if I weaken. The seller also has a FSB with pins to sell with it and it may even be the FSB to go with the barrel. If you get a chance to buy or shoot an FN barrel, do it, you will be very happy with it's accuracy....<><....:)
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:57:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 12:51:25 PM EDT by bobweaver]
Keep an eye on the EE
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:06:04 AM EDT
They would if they could.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:25:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:19:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Islandboy671:
Does FN sell AR-15s (uppers, lowers, complete rifles) to civilians or are they restricted to military sales only?


FN is restricted to military sales only as they build their rifles using the TDP supplied by the govt.

The contract between Colt & the .Gov allows the .Gov to use the TDP for 'alternate sources' with the stipulation they cannot use said info to compete against Colt in the commercial market.


Which is why I say 98% of all FN items are stolen military property. 1% is stolen from FN and 1% is accidental military DRMO sales.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:25:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Islandboy671:
Does FN sell AR-15s (uppers, lowers, complete rifles) to civilians or are they restricted to military sales only?


FN is restricted to military sales only as they build their rifles using the TDP supplied by the govt.

The contract between Colt & the .Gov allows the .Gov to use the TDP for 'alternate sources' with the stipulation they cannot use said info to compete against Colt in the commercial market.


Which is why I say 98% of all FN items are stolen military property. 1% is stolen from FN and 1% is accidental military DRMO sales.


FN cannot directly sell on the commercial market, however, what the mil units do with the parts after they receive them via DRMO is up to them. To claim that 98% of FN parts are stolen is a bold claim with no evidence to substantiate it. It's not like FN parts are readily available.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:29:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Originally Posted By Forest:
Originally Posted By Islandboy671:
Does FN sell AR-15s (uppers, lowers, complete rifles) to civilians or are they restricted to military sales only?


FN is restricted to military sales only as they build their rifles using the TDP supplied by the govt.

The contract between Colt & the .Gov allows the .Gov to use the TDP for 'alternate sources' with the stipulation they cannot use said info to compete against Colt in the commercial market.


Which is why I say 98% of all FN items are stolen military property. 1% is stolen from FN and 1% is accidental military DRMO sales.


FN cannot directly sell on the commercial market, however, what the mil units do with the parts after they receive them via DRMO is up to them. To claim that 98% of FN parts are stolen is a bold claim with no evidence to substantiate it. It's not like FN parts are readily available.


What is the Military's policy on small arms disposal?

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:40:47 AM EDT
smash & scrap
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:50:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Blasko:
smash & scrap


which means no matter how many parts are in civilian hands, it must have gotten there in one of three ways
a- stolen from the military
b- stolen from FN
c- accidental military scrap sales (FN can't sell at all)

I simply have a view on people that you do not. If you choose to think 98% of all the FN gear out there is due to stupid clerks and not clerks stealing, fine. I just think there are more thieves then ignorance. I guess it could be 50% / 50%...40% / 60% whatever. I just choose to error on the side of caution and stay the hell away from it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:56:36 AM EDT
Nope. We aren't worthy.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:26:10 PM EDT
This certainly applies to F/A gov property lowers. The uppers, barrels and BCGs can be disposed of as an armorer sees fit. Some of the uppers with BCGs were supplied to law enforcement, who replaced the 20" uppers with 16" uppers. These uppers wind up in the pipeline.

So your unfounded claim is hardly accurate.





Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:47:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By altopwescap:
This certainly applies to F/A gov property lowers. The uppers, barrels and BCGs can be disposed of as an armorer sees fit. Some of the uppers with BCGs were supplied to law enforcement, who replaced the 20" uppers with 16" uppers. These uppers wind up in the pipeline.

So your unfounded claim is hardly accurate.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/altopwescap/DSC02192a.jpg

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/altopwescap/myfn.jpg

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/altopwescap/myfn2.jpg



Well....no Military Armorers can't what ever they want. Its called black market, E-4 mifia, jimmy discounts. A unit commander can do what he wants, but I have never seen a written order allowing an armory to sell, give or trade uppers to a local PD. Is it done...sure. I would say its done under the table and is still illegal. The standing military order is NEVER sell small arms at all. All small arms and parts to small arms are destroyed. The scrap metal can be recycled or sold.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 1:52:24 PM EDT
Funny Century Arms is building retro A1 clones using ex-military 70's era A1 Colt uppers and Colt BCGs. No doubt illigal as hell



The top upper is a retired early 70's mil surp Colt 603 upper and a C MP B barrel. The bottom upper is a retired early 70's Colt 603 with a FN replacement barrel.

I'd bet these were sold as a part of a lot of retired government surplus. The lowers all got brand new FN A2 or Colt A4 uppers.

Produce a memo that documents whole sale illigal theft of retired 20" uppers or just accept the reality of the situation.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:05:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 2:06:43 PM EDT by CWDraco]
Originally Posted By altopwescap:
Funny Century Arms is building retro A1 clones using ex-military 70's era A1 Colt uppers and Colt BCGs. No doubt illegal as hell

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/altopwescap/DSC02287.jpg

The top upper is a retired early 70's mil surp Colt 603 upper and a C MP B barrel. The bottom upper is a retired early 70's Colt 603 with a FN replacement barrel.

I'd bet these were sold as a part of a lot of retired government surplus. The lowers all got brand new FN A2 or Colt A4 uppers.

Produce a memo that documents whole sale illegal theft of retired 20" uppers or just accept the reality of the situation.


back at ya.

produce a document by the military stating they sell used and new small arms parts to civilians.
I have seen DRMO sales showing small arms parts.
I have seen DRMO sales of nuclear missile launch and control devices also
neither proves they wanted to do it or that the sale was legal under the law.

its all fun and games til some one gets hurt.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:20:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Originally Posted By altopwescap:
Funny Century Arms is building retro A1 clones using ex-military 70's era A1 Colt uppers and Colt BCGs. No doubt illegal as hell

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/altopwescap/DSC02287.jpg

The top upper is a retired early 70's mil surp Colt 603 upper and a C MP B barrel. The bottom upper is a retired early 70's Colt 603 with a FN replacement barrel.

I'd bet these were sold as a part of a lot of retired government surplus. The lowers all got brand new FN A2 or Colt A4 uppers.

Produce a memo that documents whole sale illegal theft of retired 20" uppers or just accept the reality of the situation.


back at ya.

produce a document by the military stating they sell used and new small arms parts to civilians.
I have seen DRMO sales showing small arms parts.
I have seen DRMO sales of nuclear missile launch and control devices also
neither proves they wanted to do it or that the sale was legal under the law.

its all fun and games til some one gets hurt.




OR CAUGHT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:23:40 PM EDT
There is an FN A1 upper on GB right now at a pretty darn good price.
here
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:29:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 2:31:00 PM EDT by Eurodriver]
If for any reason an upper/lower/barrel/anything is completely 100% inoperable, 3rd echelon disposes of it by sawing it in half/crushing it/ cutting it in half with a torch with the 5th echelon guys, whatever they feel like doing. It isn't sold, and I've never, not one time, seen any branch of any service take used weapons or weapon parts to DRMO that werent completely destroyed.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:40:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Originally Posted By Blasko:
smash & scrap


which means no matter how many parts are in civilian hands, it must have gotten there in one of three ways
a- stolen from the military
b- stolen from FN
c- accidental military scrap sales (FN can't sell at all)

I simply have a view on people that you do not. If you choose to think 98% of all the FN gear out there is due to stupid clerks and not clerks stealing, fine. I just think there are more thieves then ignorance. I guess it could be 50% / 50%...40% / 60% whatever. I just choose to error on the side of caution and stay the hell away from it.


Creedmoor sports sells FN upper receivers brand new.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 2:43:56 PM EDT
I've got an A2 upper with FN stamping on it.

Never seen a FN lower without a hole for the automatic sear pin.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 4:45:02 PM EDT
...PAGE 2 is mine.

Thanks guys for all the replies. I guess I can go tell my neighbor to go f#*% himself now.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:25:36 PM EDT
Well I own an FN A2 upper forging. It was sold in an insurance sale (was in a box of uppers undamaged in a shipping accident).

I guess I'm a criminal.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:33:00 PM EDT
I guess the FK upperst hat came on my factory Bushmasters from 92,93 will have o go back as well.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:13:34 PM EDT
Law enforcement agencys get old m16 rifles supplied to them from military surplus all the time, its hardly an uncommon thing or "illegal"
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:17:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 8:19:22 PM EDT by NorthStaR209]

CWDraco

Well....no Military Armorers can't what ever they want. Its called black market, E-4 mifia, jimmy discounts. A unit commander can do what he wants, but I have never seen a written order allowing an armory to sell, give or trade uppers to a local PD. Is it done...sure. I would say its done under the table and is still illegal. The standing military order is NEVER sell small arms at all. All small arms and parts to small arms are destroyed. The scrap metal can be recycled or sold.


It's hardly grey market when the gov. supplys to law enforcement with military items and its def. not low key, under the table or illegal.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:22:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CWDraco:
Originally Posted By altopwescap:
This certainly applies to F/A gov property lowers. The uppers, barrels and BCGs can be disposed of as an armorer sees fit. Some of the uppers with BCGs were supplied to law enforcement, who replaced the 20" uppers with 16" uppers. These uppers wind up in the pipeline.

So your unfounded claim is hardly accurate.

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/altopwescap/DSC02192a.jpg

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/altopwescap/myfn.jpg

http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad69/altopwescap/myfn2.jpg



Well....no Military Armorers can't what ever they want. Its called black market, E-4 mifia, jimmy discounts. A unit commander can do what he wants, but I have never seen a written order allowing an armory to sell, give or trade uppers to a local PD. Is it done...sure. I would say its done under the table and is still illegal. The standing military order is NEVER sell small arms at all. All small arms and parts to small arms are destroyed. The scrap metal can be recycled or sold.

There is an official DoD program to sell complete A1 rifles to the police.

However, they are more 'leased for a one-time price', because if the cops don't want them anymore, they must be returned to DoD...

Many PDs obtain them and then install an AR15 fire control group, 'cause they don't want beat cops to have the happy switch...
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:23:31 PM EDT
Look at all the Colt M16's (mostly A1) that were given by the US Govt to country "X", then country "X" decided to sell them back to the us civilian market, they were imported as parts kits with BATF approval and here they are. Could the same thing happen to a few FN rifles?
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:45:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:49:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 7:50:47 AM EDT
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