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Posted: 9/11/2010 6:08:30 AM EDT
It seems whenever I hear something regarding forward assists, it is usually a negative comment. I find them very useful sometimes. If you need to chamber a round quietly for hunting, you usually need to use the forward assist.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:17:48 AM EDT
FA is the answer to a question that never should have been asked.



For hunting, the AR is NOT a quiet rifle in the first place. The second you pull the charging handle back, the dust cover pops open, and you already have a ton of noise. Smacking the FA isn't the most quiet operation either.


If a fighting situation, if a round isn't chambering, get it the eff out of your gun. If you can't chamber a round because of an obstruction, the FA isn't going to do dick.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:23:12 AM EDT
I have no love for threads that start off: "Why no love for..."
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:29:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
FA is the answer to a question that never should have been asked.



For hunting, the AR is NOT a quiet rifle in the first place. The second you pull the charging handle back, the dust cover pops open, and you already have a ton of noise. Smacking the FA isn't the most quiet operation either.


If a fighting situation, if a round isn't chambering, get it the eff out of your gun. If you can't chamber a round because of an obstruction, the FA isn't going to do dick.


Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:32:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Merc1973:
I have no love for threads that start off: "Why no love for..."


This

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 6:37:53 AM EDT
Foward assist is just another option a good one to. Do some research on military snipers they demand FA. More options the better.... right, perfect for AR's can't have to many accesories. I have FA on my ar-15 and ar-10 never have had to use them but, I am not a sniper nor do I hunt with the ar platform, but I do like to shoot the f__k! out of them on the mess around in the woods days. Thats just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 7:24:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By coppersaw:
Foward assist is just another option a good one to. Do some research on military snipers they demand FA. More options the better.... right, perfect for AR's can't have to many accesories. I have FA on my ar-15 and ar-10 never have had to use them but, I am not a sniper nor do I hunt with the ar platform, but I do like to shoot the f__k! out of them on the mess around in the woods days. Thats just my 2 cents.


That's some awesome internet BS your spreading....
I never knew that B4's were spec'ing that on there weapons....

The FA was an old requirment that got carried over from the M-1/M14.

In practical use, the who "Loading silently is a BS myth spread by Beef Jerky selling Bucketheads at Gun Shows..

and smart shooters don't try to force a rd that does not want to chamber on it's own, causing bigger issues... The reason no one loves them is that if you maintain our gun, there is no need for them..but the Military likes redundancy and back up plans.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 7:26:58 AM EDT
I've been shooting AR's for a long time. I'm not in combat, but even in my shooting alot of full auto, and dirty surplus/russian ammo, I've yet to get to the point that I would need the FA.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 7:44:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTNmyMag:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
FA is the answer to a question that never should have been asked.



For hunting, the AR is NOT a quiet rifle in the first place. The second you pull the charging handle back, the dust cover pops open, and you already have a ton of noise. Smacking the FA isn't the most quiet operation either.


If a fighting situation, if a round isn't chambering, get it the eff out of your gun. If you can't chamber a round because of an obstruction, the FA isn't going to do dick.



Why ?

Serious question. I'm teachable.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 7:47:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 7:50:22 AM EDT by ChromeLined]
Because its useless,not needed and potentially dangerous.I dont think its a good thing to have the ability to force to chamber a round that wont chamber on its own.On my M14 when that happens I eject the round and rechamber I dont screw around trying to force the operating rod shut.What if its a damaged round well you wont know because unlike the M14 the AR15 is all closed in and your not gonna be able to tell at a quick glance so why take a chance...just eject it and rechamber its much much safer..thats why I hate the forward assist.When we hunt we are up in the woods at a cabin so we chamber and safe the rifles before heading out.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 7:49:40 AM EDT
I dunno. I guess I've never really spent any quality time with it or bonded with it like I have the CH and BCG.
Now I feel guilty.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 7:55:26 AM EDT
I can count the number of times I had to use it on 3 AR's.....never
Waste of space IMHO.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:26:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 8:29:00 AM EDT by Mb121]
Originally Posted By coppersaw:
Foward assist is just another option a good one to. Do some research on military snipers they demand FA. More options the better.... right, perfect for AR's can't have to many accesories. I have FA on my ar-15 and ar-10 never have had to use them but, I am not a sniper nor do I hunt with the ar platform, but I do like to shoot the f__k! out of them on the mess around in the woods days. Thats just my 2 cents.


Nothing of what you just said is factual.

Considering that the M21 (no longer issued), M110 SASS, and M107 LRSR are the only semi auto rifles to be issued in the Army, the only two that have any kind of forward assists are the M21 and the M107 with the way their charging handles are designed. M110 lacks any kind of forward assist.

Check your information.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:32:48 AM EDT
I've never used the FA for what it was truly intended to do and never would. I like having it though. I use it often on my hunting ARs. You can load an AR very quietly IMO. I ease the carrier forward and make the last 1/4" of engagement with light pressure from my thumb. No smacking or forcing involved. Some don't like the idea of riding the BCG forward but I've never had a problem. I prefer to have one and personally have no desire to get an AR without it. Same for dust covers. JMO though.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:33:21 AM EDT
I think in time the forward assist will go the way of the little toe, getting smaller and smaller until it's just a lump
on the upper reciever. Something not needed that will just disappear, just like this thread.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:38:02 AM EDT
I use mine every time I check the chamber.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:41:25 AM EDT
the forward assist doesnt chamber a round quietly, i think people just repeat what they read/hear....
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 8:48:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By xoldsmugglerx:
It seems whenever I hear something regarding forward assists, it is usually a negative comment. I find them very useful sometimes. If you need to chamber a round quietly for hunting, you usually need to use the forward assist.


I use my FA every time I load a new mag. I was taught that way and continue to do so.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 9:19:40 AM EDT
I like it. I wouldn't build an AR without it.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 9:42:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 9:52:31 AM EDT by FIGJAM]
I'm not a fan of the forward assist but I don't fight in combat. Why did the Israelis put a forward assist in the FAL? Is it because they use it in combat and found a need?

Yes, the AR-15 FA came into being under dubious needs. However, it's still there.

I'm betting that its just a matter of time before you see one on the M110. I've read on these boards those who've used them in Iraq wishing they had one at times. I say let the users decide.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 9:48:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
I'm not a fan of the forward assist but I don't fight in combat. Why did the Israelis but a forward assist in the FAL? Is it because they use it in combat and found a need?

They also dumped their FAL's quickly. It was clear that it wasn't going to be a feasible rifle for their environment.


Did anyone else use Fwd Assist on FAL's?
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 9:48:35 AM EDT
I like it it is a good thing to have.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 9:50:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 9:58:59 AM EDT by FIGJAM]
Originally Posted By DanTSX:

Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
I'm not a fan of the forward assist but I don't fight in combat. Why did the Israelis but a forward assist in the FAL? Is it because they use it in combat and found a need?

They also dumped their FAL's quickly. It was clear that it wasn't going to be a feasible rifle for their environment.


Did anyone else use Fwd Assist on FAL's?


Does everyone get to choose the environment they are fighting in?

I, too, have started seeing the forward assist being used more and more in clearing drills for urban combat.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 10:00:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Catman2:
I think in time the forward assist will go the way of the little toe, getting smaller and smaller until it's just a lump
on the upper reciever. Something not needed that will just disappear, just like this thread.


You do know that without your little toe, you have no balance and you would probably fall over trying to walk.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 10:12:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 10:14:11 AM EDT by DanTSX]

Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:

Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
I'm not a fan of the forward assist but I don't fight in combat. Why did the Israelis but a forward assist in the FAL? Is it because they use it in combat and found a need?

They also dumped their FAL's quickly. It was clear that it wasn't going to be a feasible rifle for their environment.


Did anyone else use Fwd Assist on FAL's?


Does everyone get to choose the environment they are fighting in?

I, too, have started seeing the forward assist being used more and more in clearing drills for urban combat.

No of course not. What kind of a statement is that? But most armies get to choose what rifle they will use in whatever environment they are stuck with.

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 10:54:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:

Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
I'm not a fan of the forward assist but I don't fight in combat. Why did the Israelis but a forward assist in the FAL? Is it because they use it in combat and found a need?

They also dumped their FAL's quickly. It was clear that it wasn't going to be a feasible rifle for their environment.


Did anyone else use Fwd Assist on FAL's?


Does everyone get to choose the environment they are fighting in?

I, too, have started seeing the forward assist being used more and more in clearing drills for urban combat.


And just where have you been seeing this??? please tells us what organization or Instructor is teaching this??

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 10:57:52 AM EDT
I can honestly say that in my 23 years using and shooting M16's and AR15's, I have NEVER used or had to use the Forward Assist. Kinda like tits on a warthog if you ask me.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:12:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 11:15:25 AM EDT by FIGJAM]
Originally Posted By Harv24:
Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:

Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
I'm not a fan of the forward assist but I don't fight in combat. Why did the Israelis but a forward assist in the FAL? Is it because they use it in combat and found a need?

They also dumped their FAL's quickly. It was clear that it wasn't going to be a feasible rifle for their environment.


Did anyone else use Fwd Assist on FAL's?


Does everyone get to choose the environment they are fighting in?

I, too, have started seeing the forward assist being used more and more in clearing drills for urban combat.


And just where have you been seeing this??? please tells us what organization or Instructor is teaching this??



Dude, you need to get yourself the Outdoor Channel and the Sportman's Channel. Every monkey they have on there these days is bumping the forward assist after clearing. These are law enforcement trainers, not the military. If you haven't noticed, there's a lot of cops carrying AR-15 short barreled rifles. They aren't just for the military anymore.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:14:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:16:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 11:18:12 AM EDT by FIGJAM]
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Really????

Every one?

I feel a clue moment coming here.


Didn't say everyone did I. You need to start watching some more MODERN training videos, too. You know, the ones without Gunny.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:18:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 11:22:08 AM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:19:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DV8:
I can honestly say that in my 23 years using and shooting M16's and AR15's, I have NEVER used or had to use the Forward Assist. Kinda like tits on a warthog if you ask me.


Yeah, and the military isn't knocking down crack houses in drug neighborhoods everyday either.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:20:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 11:21:05 AM EDT by FIGJAM]
Oops.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:21:00 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:39:38 AM EDT
Its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Its there to use if one feels it will resolve an issue impeding the operation of the rifle.

With that said, there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:50:04 AM EDT
As diaz_aa stated, I also use it every time I load the rifle.
That is the way the USMC has always trained. (haven't been to Parris Island in a while, things may have changed)
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 11:54:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 11:58:20 AM EDT by Forgetfull]
I use often to load without letting the bolt slam home when I'm in the house or not make a big racket elsewhere.

Have you guys ever done a chamber check? FA comes in handy to make absolutely sure the round is seated.

Really what's wrong with it? It adds almost no weight and takes up minimal space.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:38:52 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
Originally Posted By DV8:
I can honestly say that in my 23 years using and shooting M16's and AR15's, I have NEVER used or had to use the Forward Assist. Kinda like tits on a warthog if you ask me.


Yeah, and the military isn't knocking down crack houses in drug neighborhoods everyday either.


Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:42:34 PM EDT
Yeah, and the military isn't knocking down crack houses in drug neighborhoods everyday either.


The Military uses the platform more on a daily basis than all the police departments in the United States combined.

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 12:44:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
Yeah, and the military isn't knocking down crack houses in drug neighborhoods everyday either.


The Military uses the platform more on a daily basis than all the police departments in the United States combined.



Exactly, and for the past 8 years, the .mil has been kicking down more doors and clearing more streets and rooms than all of the police departments in the US combined.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:02:06 PM EDT
Well this thread escalated quickly . Anyways, for those who say that you can't load an ar quietly, you are correct. However, it is a lot quieter letting the bolt down slowly and using the forward assist than just letting the bolt fly down. And no, I don't repeat everything that I hear. I have actually used this method quite a few times.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:13:11 PM EDT
Why do new AR manufacturing companies like LaRue put the FA on their rifles if it serves no purpose?

If it just to be Mil-Spec, then fine... but it's not like LaRue is going to win any military contracts for their uppers as small as they are. Thoughts?

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:18:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 1:19:08 PM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:20:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
Originally Posted By Harv24:
Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:

Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
I'm not a fan of the forward assist but I don't fight in combat. Why did the Israelis but a forward assist in the FAL? Is it because they use it in combat and found a need?

They also dumped their FAL's quickly. It was clear that it wasn't going to be a feasible rifle for their environment.


Did anyone else use Fwd Assist on FAL's?


Does everyone get to choose the environment they are fighting in?

I, too, have started seeing the forward assist being used more and more in clearing drills for urban combat.


And just where have you been seeing this??? please tells us what organization or Instructor is teaching this??



Dude, you need to get yourself the Outdoor Channel and the Sportman's Channel. Every monkey they have on there these days is bumping the forward assist after clearing. These are law enforcement trainers, not the military. If you haven't noticed, there's a lot of cops carrying AR-15 short barreled rifles. They aren't just for the military anymore.


Well thanks.... Now I know exactly where your getting your training from.......The Outdoor channel and the Sportsmen Channel....

it's very clear to me now... You have zero clue on what you don't know and have absolutely no clue what so ever that you don't know it...

You'll go far.... drive on....
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:24:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Originally Posted By FIGJAM:
Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Really????

Every one?

I feel a clue moment coming here.


Didn't say everyone did I. You need to start watching some more MODERN training videos, too.


I am sure myself and Harv 24 need to watch more MODERN training videos of some Jibroni.

How about you Harv?

I am sorry, myself and Harv are too BUSY taking courses from Tier 1 instructors to waste time watching some crap on TV.

I have yet to see a Tier 1 Instructor get all warm and gooey over the forward assist and I bet Harv will back me up on this.


OOoooooh! Impressive indeed!

Well, we were trained to use it for the first round chambered, and it does come in handy when checking the chamber, as has been mentioned.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:35:50 PM EDT
The FA isn't for forcing an out of spec round into a dirty chamber. It is to ensure that other malfunctions, such as a weak recoil spring, dirty receiver, or other non-threatening obstruction does not prevent the shooter from continuing to use a rifle. It is also a failsafe to ensure the bolt is fully in battery.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:39:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 1:44:43 PM EDT by Catman2]
Originally Posted By DV8:
Originally Posted By Finslayer83:
Yeah, and the military isn't knocking down crack houses in drug neighborhoods everyday either.


The Military uses the platform more on a daily basis than all the police departments in the United States combined.



Exactly, and for the past 8 years, the .mil has been kicking down more doors and clearing more streets and rooms than all of the police departments in the US combined.


+1
I was wondering when someone was going to square this away.

Hey, post 2800! And I owe it all to the FA

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:39:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 1:42:53 PM EDT by HeavyMetal]
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:45:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2010 1:51:39 PM EDT by DanTSX]

Originally Posted By bloodsport2885:
The FA isn't for forcing an out of spec round into a dirty chamber. It is to ensure that other malfunctions, such as a weak recoil spring, dirty receiver, or other non-threatening obstruction does not prevent the shooter from continuing to use a rifle. It is also a failsafe to ensure the bolt is fully in battery.

If something is not working right, causing the bolt to not seat, the rifle isn't safe to fire. It will just happen again on the next shot. Especially if the malfunction is unrelated to ammo or the chamber, such as a weak recoil spring. Weak recoil springs just don't happen suddenly either. The fact that the USMC is still teaching to use it is meaningless to me. Easy to come up with new lessons, hard to drop old bad lessons. What would be meaningful is to find out why they teach it in the first place. The whole "in case you have to sneak up on someone" argument is gunshow commando bullshit.


Sometimes there are too many tools in a toolbox. Consider individual rounds expendable and eject the shit round and move on, BEFORE YOU FORCE IT INTO THE CHAMBER, and can't extract it.

That all being said, I don't see any reason to put resources into REMOVING the FA. But, honestly, I'd like to go back to upper receivers without FA and without case deflectors. Thin is in.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:46:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:

OOoooooh! Impressive indeed!

Well, we were trained to use it for the first round chambered, and it does come in handy when checking the chamber, as has been mentioned.


Well, a certain SOF-D instructor thinks it's bullshit for general use. Sure it works to close the bolt after a press check. Other than that, it tends to cause more porblems than it solves. Your impressive training might be better than his though.....wait, it isn't.

The Military still teaches SPORTS too and no reputable instructor still teaches that garbage. If you wan't the latest TTP, you ain't gonna find it with big Army.

little Marine Corps either...

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:53:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Catman2:
I think in time the forward assist will go the way of the little toe, getting smaller and smaller until it's just a lump
on the upper reciever. Something not needed that will just disappear, just like this thread.


agreed
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