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Posted: 9/8/2010 3:32:27 PM EDT
I've always been a fan of the best possible materials for a build, whether it be a pistol or a rifle. I'm a little new to all the manufacturers out there so I could really use some friendly advice. I'm looking to build a 5.56 AR Special Purpose Rifle with a 20"- 24" bbl from the ground up. Cost is not a factor, and I'm looking for 1/2MOA if at all possible. I'm not all wrapped up about rails and all that tactical stuff, but I do not want a stainless barrel. I already have the lower covered, so all I'm worried about is the upper. What would be the very best quality parts I could use? So far I'm looking at a Krieger Barrel, a Young National Match bolt and carrier, and Hogue furniture. Any ideas or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:35:12 PM EDT
Look into:

Noveske
BCM
LMT
Daniel Defense
LaRue
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:36:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By lionrampant:
I've always been a fan of the best possible materials for a build, whether it be a pistol or a rifle. I'm a little new to all the manufacturers out there so I could really use some friendly advice. I'm looking to build a 5.56 AR Special Purpose Rifle with a 20"- 24" bbl from the ground up. Cost is not a factor, and I'm looking for 1/2MOA if at all possible. I'm not all wrapped up about rails and all that tactical stuff, but I do not want a stainless barrel. I already have the lower covered, so all I'm worried about is the upper. What would be the very best quality parts I could use? So far I'm looking at a Krieger Barrel, a Young National Match bolt and carrier, and Hogue furniture. Any ideas or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!




A true SPR has an 18" stainless steel barrel. Also, good luck getting 1/2 MOA out of a non-stainless steel barrel.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:39:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Captains1911:
Originally Posted By lionrampant:
I've always been a fan of the best possible materials for a build, whether it be a pistol or a rifle. I'm a little new to all the manufacturers out there so I could really use some friendly advice. I'm looking to build a 5.56 AR Special Purpose Rifle with a 20"- 24" bbl from the ground up. Cost is not a factor, and I'm looking for 1/2MOA if at all possible. I'm not all wrapped up about rails and all that tactical stuff, but I do not want a stainless barrel. I already have the lower covered, so all I'm worried about is the upper. What would be the very best quality parts I could use? So far I'm looking at a Krieger Barrel, a Young National Match bolt and carrier, and Hogue furniture. Any ideas or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!




A true SPR has an 18" stainless steel barrel. Also, good luck getting 1/2 MOA out of a non-stainless steel barrel.


+1

Arent Krieger barrels stainless?
These guys guarantee what you are looking for.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:06:00 PM EDT
Thanks for the info. I meant that I'm not looking for a stainless finish on the barrel.



Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:08:00 PM EDT
Check out Superior Barrels.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:24:18 PM EDT
This is posted in 2 subsub forums of the AR-15 subforums......

Look no further then CLE
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:59:17 PM EDT
What would you define as 1/2MOA? For a three shot group? Five shot group? Ten shot group? Are you capable of shooting that well? I'm just asking because there is lots of good stuff out there. I don't think that you can randomly take one Kreiger barrel out of a lot of 100 and then randomly take one Noveske barrel out of a lot of 100 and definitively say that one will shoot better than the other, without having shot both with your preferred ammunition. If you're looking for a barrel that will shoot 1/2MOA with M193 ammo, good luck finding that.

I've only recently gained an interest in precision shooting and have a lot to learn, so I've been doing a lot of research. Apparently, getting a barrel that will shoot 1/2MOA groups for three rounds isn't that hard. Getting a barrel that will do it for a ten round group isn't so easy. From what I understand, if your barrel can shoot a 1.5MOA group for 10 rounds, you're doing good. My rifle has shot 1/2MOA three shot groups and does around 1.2" or so for twenty round groups. It might be able to do better, but that's all I'm capable of. I'm shooting a BCM SS410 16" barrel.

My point is that there is a lot of good stuff out there. Noveske, BCM, Ranier Ultra Match, Krieger, Superior Barrels, Centurion, White Oak, etc. You could probably pick one of those out of a pile and not be able to shoot it to its potential, so, just pick one. The only suggestion I'd make is that when you get your barrel, get a bolt headspaced for the barrel at the same time.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:18:16 PM EDT
Accuracey is a plus for sure but I have no problems dropping prarie dogs, crows, armadilos and small pigs at some pretty good distances (100-600 yards) w/ 2 rifles that are both MOA at best.
I think anything less and most (read vast majority) cant hold up there end.

My custom Dakota rifle I bought from a guy who swore it was a lemon is a classic example. After taking it to the range with a box of Black hills ammo my son and I were both able to put 5 rounds in 1 to 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards. My son, a very accomplished shot was able to print one 5 inch group that was just a hair over 1/2". This was back before we started shooting 10 round groups.

I rarely see folks who can do what there guns are capable of. I fit into this category on most occasions but never have a problem taking my limit or making decent shots at longer ranges.
Point is get the best you can afford and dont delve to deeply into the super accuracey hole. It is not a requirement by any means.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:41:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RangerJoe11:
Originally Posted By Captains1911:

Originally Posted By lionrampant:

I've always been a fan of the best possible materials for a build, whether it be a pistol or a rifle. I'm a little new to all the manufacturers out there so I could really use some friendly advice. I'm looking to build a 5.56 AR Special Purpose Rifle with a 20"- 24" bbl from the ground up. Cost is not a factor, and I'm looking for 1/2MOA if at all possible. I'm not all wrapped up about rails and all that tactical stuff, but I do not want a stainless barrel. I already have the lower covered, so all I'm worried about is the upper. What would be the very best quality parts I could use? So far I'm looking at a Krieger Barrel, a Young National Match bolt and carrier, and Hogue furniture. Any ideas or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

A true SPR has an 18" stainless steel barrel. Also, good luck getting 1/2 MOA out of a non-stainless steel barrel.

+1 ...


Originally Posted By lionrampant:

Thanks for the info. I meant that I'm not looking for a stainless finish on the barrel.





OP, please be a little more specific ... how do you define an "SPR" ...



Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:06:29 PM EDT
Wikipedia has this photo of an SPR:


The barrel doesn't appear to be stainless steel.

They also list these specifications for the SPR:

* Upper Receiver: The majority of the SPR upper receivers were initially supplied by Colt, with others being produced by Colt Canada (then Diemaco). Colt had been outsourcing parts of its production to Diemaco for several years, then purchased Diemaco in February 2005. It is unclear whether the upper receivers for the later SPRs came solely from ArmaLite, or were a mix of receivers from ArmaLite and Colt/Diemaco. All of these upper receivers are flat-topped, but have been seen with either the old-style teardrop forward assist or the newer round style.

* Lower Receiver: When the SPR program was still just an upper receiver assembly (and not a complete rifle), Crane assembled all of its prototypes using either M16A1 or M4A1 lower receivers. It is unknown whether this pattern continued as the rifle evolved. There is also some issue about whether, when the Navy type-classified the weapon, Precision Reflex Incorporated (PRI) began assembling the rifles themselves. While a number of trigger options were tried in the end, the Knight's Armament Company (KAC) 2-stage trigger was finally decided upon as the standard.

* Barrel: An 18-inch (457 mm) threaded-muzzle match-grade free floating stainless steel heavy barrel with a 1:7 (178 mm) rifling twist ratio is standard for the SPR. The barrels are manufactured by Douglas Barrels with a special contour to maximize accuracy and to minimize weight. An OPS Inc. muzzle brake and collar (to align the OPS Inc. 12th Model Suppressor) is installed with the barrel. These barrels were designed to take advantage of the new Mk 262 cartridge, which uses a 77-grain (5 g) bullet.

* Buttstock: SPRs have been seen with M16A1 or M16A2 fixed buttstocks, telescoping M4 buttstocks, and the Crane Enhanced telescoping buttstock. The rifles are compatible with any type of stock system developed for the M16.

* Handguards: In all cases a free-floating forearm is used, which does not touch the barrel directly. This increases the accuracy of the weapon by removing vibration and pressure exerted on the barrel by the rest of the gun. The first SPRs used PRI Gen I or Gen II carbon-fiber free-float tubes. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 all use the Knights Armament Company M4 Match Free-Floating Rail Adapter System. The Mk 12 Mod 0 uses PRI Gen III free-float tubes. The Gen I and Gen II Freefloat Forearms are combined with the Atlantic Research Marketing Systems #38 SPR MOD Sleeve, while the Gen III Freefloat Forearm, due to its it larger barrel nut, only works with the ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2-3.

* Sights: The original SPR used an early PRI flip-up front sight with an elevation dial, which has since been discontinued. The Mk 12 Mod 0 uses the current PRI flip-up front sight. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 use the KAC rail foreend flip-up front sight. The SPR and Mk 12 Mod 0 use the ARMS #40 flip up rear sight. The rest of the models use the KAC 600 meter flip up rear.

* Optics: Due to the relative modularity of the system, optics (as well as almost everything else) can be mounted according to the operator's wishes. However, SPRs are most often seen with a 3.5–10×40 mm Leupold LR M3 (SPR/A), a 2.5–9×36 mm TS-30 (SPR/B), or a 3–9×36 mm TS-30 A2 (Mk 12 Mod 0/1) Mid Range/Tactical Illuminated Reticle Dayscope. Night vision devices can also be attached. These scopes usually come with flip open dust covers and a honeycomb anti-glare anti-reflection device. Given Nightforce Optics' NAVSPECWAR contract, it is believed that many NAVSPECWAR issued SPRs will use the Nightforce 2.5-10x24 NXS scope.[3]

* Mounts: A long accessory rail, called a SWAN Sleeve (ARMS SPR MOD or ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2-3), manufactured by ARMS, is installed, running the length of the rifle. The SPR/A and SPR/B both used the KAC M4 Match FF RAS. Two ARMS #22 Throwlever 30 mm steel rings are used to mount the dayscope. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 use ARMS #22 high rings, while due to the increased height from the SWAN Sleeve, the SPR and Mk 12 Mod 0 use ARMS #22 medium rings. An under-the-handguard ARMS #32 Throwlever mount is used to mount the Harris bipod (the ARMS #42 Throwlever mount is used to mount the Versa-Pod); this features a quick release action.

* Bipod: Originally Versa-Pods (a cheaper Chinese-made copy of the relatively expensive Parker-Hale swivel bipod) were used, but were taken off the system after the initial SPR. Currently, a Harris swivel model bipod is typically used with the SPR, and is sometimes seen with a KMW Pod-Loc tension adjustment device. As mentioned above, the bipod is mounted via a ARMS #32 throwlever device attached to the bottom rail of the rifle's forearm. The ARMS mount is used on both the Mod 0 and Mod 1.

* Suppressor: The OPS Inc. 12th Model SPR Muzzle Brake Suppressor threads directly onto the OPS Inc. muzzle brake and uses the collar to stay centered.

* Ammunition: The SPR is not used to fire standard issue 5.56mm M855 or M193 ball or M856 tracer ammunition. Due to the limits in terminal performance and relatively poor accuracy of the 62-grain (4 g) M855 ball, the Mk 262 Open Tip Match (OTM) round was developed as a more accurate round for the SPR, and manufactured by Black Hills Ammunition. The first production batches were designated Mk 262 Mod 0 and used a Sierra Bullets MatchKing 77-grain (5 g) Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet without a cannelure (crimping groove). Black Hills then approached the Nosler bullet manufacturing company, who made a similar 77 gr (5.0 g) OTM bullet, and Nosler agreed to supply cannelured bullets to Black Hills. The newer load was designated Mk 262 Mod 1. Recently, Sierra added a minimal crimp to its bullet, and this has since replaced the Nosler bullet in the current versions of Mk 262 Mod 1.


I've decided that I want my next build to be an SPR, so I too am interested in places where I can get the best product for my buck.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:14:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:16:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Crashtastic:
THIS.



Code: 07-55618-SPR-B

Price: $1,978.00

They've gotta be kidding ...
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:18:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Shqype:
Wikipedia has this photo of an SPR:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/SPRCrane.jpg/800px-SPRCrane.jpg

The barrel doesn't appear to be stainless steel.

They also list these specifications for the SPR:

* Upper Receiver: The majority of the SPR upper receivers were initially supplied by Colt, with others being produced by Colt Canada (then Diemaco). Colt had been outsourcing parts of its production to Diemaco for several years, then purchased Diemaco in February 2005. It is unclear whether the upper receivers for the later SPRs came solely from ArmaLite, or were a mix of receivers from ArmaLite and Colt/Diemaco. All of these upper receivers are flat-topped, but have been seen with either the old-style teardrop forward assist or the newer round style.

* Lower Receiver: When the SPR program was still just an upper receiver assembly (and not a complete rifle), Crane assembled all of its prototypes using either M16A1 or M4A1 lower receivers. It is unknown whether this pattern continued as the rifle evolved. There is also some issue about whether, when the Navy type-classified the weapon, Precision Reflex Incorporated (PRI) began assembling the rifles themselves. While a number of trigger options were tried in the end, the Knight's Armament Company (KAC) 2-stage trigger was finally decided upon as the standard.

* Barrel: An 18-inch (457 mm) threaded-muzzle match-grade free floating stainless steel heavy barrel with a 1:7 (178 mm) rifling twist ratio is standard for the SPR. The barrels are manufactured by Douglas Barrels with a special contour to maximize accuracy and to minimize weight. An OPS Inc. muzzle brake and collar (to align the OPS Inc. 12th Model Suppressor) is installed with the barrel. These barrels were designed to take advantage of the new Mk 262 cartridge, which uses a 77-grain (5 g) bullet.

* Buttstock: SPRs have been seen with M16A1 or M16A2 fixed buttstocks, telescoping M4 buttstocks, and the Crane Enhanced telescoping buttstock. The rifles are compatible with any type of stock system developed for the M16.

* Handguards: In all cases a free-floating forearm is used, which does not touch the barrel directly. This increases the accuracy of the weapon by removing vibration and pressure exerted on the barrel by the rest of the gun. The first SPRs used PRI Gen I or Gen II carbon-fiber free-float tubes. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 all use the Knights Armament Company M4 Match Free-Floating Rail Adapter System. The Mk 12 Mod 0 uses PRI Gen III free-float tubes. The Gen I and Gen II Freefloat Forearms are combined with the Atlantic Research Marketing Systems #38 SPR MOD Sleeve, while the Gen III Freefloat Forearm, due to its it larger barrel nut, only works with the ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2-3.

* Sights: The original SPR used an early PRI flip-up front sight with an elevation dial, which has since been discontinued. The Mk 12 Mod 0 uses the current PRI flip-up front sight. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 use the KAC rail foreend flip-up front sight. The SPR and Mk 12 Mod 0 use the ARMS #40 flip up rear sight. The rest of the models use the KAC 600 meter flip up rear.

* Optics: Due to the relative modularity of the system, optics (as well as almost everything else) can be mounted according to the operator's wishes. However, SPRs are most often seen with a 3.5–10×40 mm Leupold LR M3 (SPR/A), a 2.5–9×36 mm TS-30 (SPR/B), or a 3–9×36 mm TS-30 A2 (Mk 12 Mod 0/1) Mid Range/Tactical Illuminated Reticle Dayscope. Night vision devices can also be attached. These scopes usually come with flip open dust covers and a honeycomb anti-glare anti-reflection device. Given Nightforce Optics' NAVSPECWAR contract, it is believed that many NAVSPECWAR issued SPRs will use the Nightforce 2.5-10x24 NXS scope.[3]

* Mounts: A long accessory rail, called a SWAN Sleeve (ARMS SPR MOD or ARMS #38 SPR PEQ-2-3), manufactured by ARMS, is installed, running the length of the rifle. The SPR/A and SPR/B both used the KAC M4 Match FF RAS. Two ARMS #22 Throwlever 30 mm steel rings are used to mount the dayscope. The SPR/A, SPR/B, and Mk 12 Mod 1 use ARMS #22 high rings, while due to the increased height from the SWAN Sleeve, the SPR and Mk 12 Mod 0 use ARMS #22 medium rings. An under-the-handguard ARMS #32 Throwlever mount is used to mount the Harris bipod (the ARMS #42 Throwlever mount is used to mount the Versa-Pod); this features a quick release action.

* Bipod: Originally Versa-Pods (a cheaper Chinese-made copy of the relatively expensive Parker-Hale swivel bipod) were used, but were taken off the system after the initial SPR. Currently, a Harris swivel model bipod is typically used with the SPR, and is sometimes seen with a KMW Pod-Loc tension adjustment device. As mentioned above, the bipod is mounted via a ARMS #32 throwlever device attached to the bottom rail of the rifle's forearm. The ARMS mount is used on both the Mod 0 and Mod 1.

* Suppressor: The OPS Inc. 12th Model SPR Muzzle Brake Suppressor threads directly onto the OPS Inc. muzzle brake and uses the collar to stay centered.

* Ammunition: The SPR is not used to fire standard issue 5.56mm M855 or M193 ball or M856 tracer ammunition. Due to the limits in terminal performance and relatively poor accuracy of the 62-grain (4 g) M855 ball, the Mk 262 Open Tip Match (OTM) round was developed as a more accurate round for the SPR, and manufactured by Black Hills Ammunition. The first production batches were designated Mk 262 Mod 0 and used a Sierra Bullets MatchKing 77-grain (5 g) Hollow Point Boat Tail bullet without a cannelure (crimping groove). Black Hills then approached the Nosler bullet manufacturing company, who made a similar 77 gr (5.0 g) OTM bullet, and Nosler agreed to supply cannelured bullets to Black Hills. The newer load was designated Mk 262 Mod 1. Recently, Sierra added a minimal crimp to its bullet, and this has since replaced the Nosler bullet in the current versions of Mk 262 Mod 1.


I've decided that I want my next build to be an SPR, so I too am interested in places where I can get the best product for my buck.


Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:39:42 PM EDT

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:11:46 PM EDT
Wkikpedia is not a real good reference source. Just a bunch of people writing about stuff that they have no idea what it is.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:17:41 PM EDT
Its simple to me...I'd go with either larue or noveske. Larue builds their name around precision rifles. They are known as the cadilac of ARs. Noveske is pretty much right beside Larue in my book, except the fact that they are lighter. But keep in mind, to achieve 1/2 MOA, it takes much more than just the rifle. You're gonna have to have great ammo, a great scope, and great trigger control.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:41:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JPC:
This is posted in 2 subsub forums of the AR-15 subforums......

Look no further then CLE


This, and have them turn you a nice Krieger barrel.

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 3:40:13 PM EDT
Thanks to everyone for all the great info. I think I'm going to go with Centurion.


Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:12:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2010 4:15:14 PM EDT by Another-Bill]
Originally Posted By Captains1911:
Originally Posted By lionrampant:
I've always been a fan of the best possible materials for a build, whether it be a pistol or a rifle. I'm a little new to all the manufacturers out there so I could really use some friendly advice. I'm looking to build a 5.56 AR Special Purpose Rifle with a 20"- 24" bbl from the ground up. Cost is not a factor, and I'm looking for 1/2MOA if at all possible. I'm not all wrapped up about rails and all that tactical stuff, but I do not want a stainless barrel. I already have the lower covered, so all I'm worried about is the upper. What would be the very best quality parts I could use? So far I'm looking at a Krieger Barrel, a Young National Match bolt and carrier, and Hogue furniture. Any ideas or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!




A true SPR has an 18" stainless steel barrel. Also, good luck getting 1/2 MOA out of a non-stainless steel barrel.


That is nonsense. Have you ever been to a High Power match? I have. Lots of SS but chrome/moly is all around.
I will assume you are referring to non-stainless as a chrome lined chrome/moly barrel.

To the OP, your barrel choice is IMHO spot on, do not deviate.
A free float fore arm, a high quality scope and a great trigger, the rest is ammo and you.





Bill
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:22:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Another-Bill:
Originally Posted By Captains1911:
Originally Posted By lionrampant:
I've always been a fan of the best possible materials for a build, whether it be a pistol or a rifle. I'm a little new to all the manufacturers out there so I could really use some friendly advice. I'm looking to build a 5.56 AR Special Purpose Rifle with a 20"- 24" bbl from the ground up. Cost is not a factor, and I'm looking for 1/2MOA if at all possible. I'm not all wrapped up about rails and all that tactical stuff, but I do not want a stainless barrel. I already have the lower covered, so all I'm worried about is the upper. What would be the very best quality parts I could use? So far I'm looking at a Krieger Barrel, a Young National Match bolt and carrier, and Hogue furniture. Any ideas or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!




A true SPR has an 18" stainless steel barrel. Also, good luck getting 1/2 MOA out of a non-stainless steel barrel.


That is nonsense. Have you ever been to a High Power match? I have. Lots of SS but chrome/moly is all around.
I will assume you are referring to non-stainless as a chrome lined chrome/moly barrel.

To the OP, your barrel choice is IMHO spot on, do not deviate.
A free float fore arm, a high quality scope and a great trigger, the rest is ammo and you.





Bill


I'm not going to argue with you about the accuracy of stainless steel barrels compared to other materials, to do so would just be silly.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:36:35 PM EDT
'The barrel doesn't appear to be stainless steel.'

The SS barrels are blackened. They don't have shiny stainless steel barrels where people are shooting back at you.

Link Posted: 9/9/2010 4:40:13 PM EDT
'I'm looking to build a 5.56 AR Special Purpose Rifle with a 20"- 24" bbl from the ground up.'

Not SPR. Barrel too long. Maybe you want to build an ultra-high accuracy rifle? There are some very fine SPRs available - no reason to go to the expense and trouble to 'make it better', as they tend to be rather expensive.
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:26:00 PM EDT
I tried to build my Mark 12 Mod 1 SPR as close to the military specs as possible
UPPER:
18" Douglas stainless SPR barrel from CLE (military version uses Douglas) KG coated black
Colt M4 upper receiver and Colt BCG, PRI Gasbuster CH
KAC 12" FF rail, OPS INC brake-collar, KAC VFG
KAC front and rear BUIS
LOWER
Sabre Defense lower with Ergo grip and A1 stock
KAC 2 stage match trigger
Specter 3 point sling
OPTIC
Leupold Mark 4 MR/T 2.5-8x m2 (illuminated TMR) in Arms #22 high rings.
Total cost was about $3700 including the optic



Link Posted: 9/9/2010 5:48:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jcrowl:
I tried to build my Mark 12 Mod 1 SPR as close to the military specs as possible
UPPER:
18" Douglas stainless SPR barrel from CLE (military version uses Douglas) KG coated black
Colt M4 upper receiver and Colt BCG, PRI Gasbuster CH
KAC 12" FF rail, OPS INC brake-collar, KAC VFG
KAC front and rear BUIS
LOWER
Sabre Defense lower with Ergo grip and A1 stock
KAC 2 stage match trigger
Specter 3 point sling
OPTIC
Leupold Mark 4 MR/T 2.5-8x m2 (illuminated TMR) in Arms #22 high rings.
Total cost was about $3700 including the optic


Love it, a real classic that sets the standard, so to speak!
But your builds are as inspirational as any, I've lost count how many photos of that blue couch are on my hard drives!

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