Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 9/7/2010 12:29:42 AM EDT
I'm considering adding a 1-4 or 2-7 scope to my AR for somewhat more precision shooting and some fun reloading. Not looking to build a precision tack driver, just extend the guns useful range past irons. All I want to shoot is paper, or humans if the need arises.

I'm not a newbie, I know what these parts do and why, I'm just asking for some opinions.

I'm trying to justify spending money on other accuracy enhancements, but I'm stuck on this one.

I can justify a 2-stage trigger......$80-100 I know I'll get my moneys worth in accuracy over stock DPMS trigger parts.

My upper of choice is a CMMG 14.5" mid-length perma-phantom, which I have two of.....don't really want another now.

I like the stock handguards just fine, I have absolutely no use or desire for a railed forearm, and would simply cover it with decent rail covers. I'd only want the free float.

To add a free float tube to it, I'd need a 2-peice design, such as the $225 Midwest Industries Tube or the $315 Daniel Defense Omega Because of the permanent flash hider. No small change when you want nothing but the free float.

Would you consider the free float worth 2-300 bucks?

Anyone have any good links to free float/ non free float accuracy tests that might help my decision?

Maybe a demonstration of point of impact shift for non free float AR barrel at different ranges?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 2:38:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By a_number_1:
Would you consider the free float worth 2-300 bucks?


I would. I have two rifles wearing DD Omegas, and while I'm no Camp Perry long range champ, it eliminates a variable.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 4:32:42 AM EDT
I have the MI rail and I like it a lot. I don't know how it compares to the DD though. I haven't done any extensive testing since I've installed my rail, but it looks like my groups are generally smaller. I also added a DMS-1 1-4x scope at the same time though.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 6:11:08 AM EDT
I usually go with free float tubes on my builds. I just like not having to worry about burning my hand on the barrel. I just converted my 14.5" build to a free float tube. It's just a beater rifle, so I went with the Model 1 tube from Midway ($40 I think) and a clamp on gas block from Yankee Hill ($30 on clearance). I cut the FSB off of my barrel and added the gas block and tube. It took me about an hour and less than $100.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:06:38 AM EDT
If you will regularly be shooting high quality ammo such as that loaded with premium bullets, then a FF is worth it. If the bulk of your shooting is done with 55gr or 62gr FMJBT, then a FF won't add much.

Of course, you can probably get a basic FF tube and have someone install it for less than a DD Omega.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:24:33 AM EDT
Its worth it. Free floating will not make a standard gun into a target rifle, but it will shrink the group size.
My 16" Bushy went from a 3" group gun to a sub 2" group gun simply by free floating the barrel. Its still
not a target gun, but it is indeed much more accurate.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:17:51 AM EDT
Absolutely not for your application. I have a Noveseke Light Carbine Basic Upper (not ff) that outshoots every other AR I think I've ever owned (including the two that were free floated). If you're building a state of the art, no holds barred, premium barrel, AR Guru built "tack driver," then I'd FF. If you're looking for rail real estate, I'd look at any of the upper end railed forearms (I'm a KAC fan, but it's personal preference). There is a chart somewhere that compares the same everything (ammo, barrel, etc.), before and after free floating the same weapon. The difference between pre and post FF was miniscule.

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm sitting on an old KAC M-4 ff RIS (RAS - whatever) that's going on something someday.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:29:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 8:29:45 AM EDT by mathecb]
Free floating definately helped with my BCM middy. Its not set up as a target rifle at all but with the cav arms handguards it was putting 4" groups at 50 yards. I installed a DD omega becasue of some stuff I needed to mount and the groups shrunk to 2" with the same ammo. POI changed to 6" high at 100 after I installed the DD omega. Free flaoting made a difference.
Im not claiming all AR's will benefit from it like mine did but if you are going to add quality rails, you might as well get FF.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:47:02 AM EDT
I would, and did. I sat around waiting for the Magpul MOE to come out in a middy size and gave up and bought some DD omegas. I think of it as a huge upgrade. Quad rail + free fload = never having to worry about your handguards again
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:06:23 AM EDT
I FF all my ARs
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 12:28:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 12:37:03 PM EDT by ar15mutt]
if that is what you want then go for it.

I checked out the DD web site. I like.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:33:37 PM EDT
Apart from the harmonics, a very strong and obvious reason to use a free float tube is if you want to shoot with a sling, a good free float tube will allow you to attach the sling to the tube instead of the barrel. That way, when you tighten up the sling to shoot it will not bend your barrel. It does not take much to bend the barrel of an AR, and you can imagine what even a very very small bend will do to your POI

I was recently at a local military shoot and one of the shooters there was puzzled with how far he was off zero during the match, basically it was barely on paper. He was really unhappy because he had made the point to come out the week before and zero the same rifle on the bench and could not understand how it had gone off zero so much. Well, I checked out his rifle and he had the sling attached to the barrel and it appeared that the test on the bench were all done without the sling…..
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 3:37:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/7/2010 3:37:31 PM EDT by artsohc]
Originally Posted By mathecb:
Its not set up as a target rifle at all but with the cav arms handguards it was putting 4" groups at 50 yards. I installed a DD omega becasue of some stuff I needed to mount and the groups shrunk to 2" with the same ammo. POI changed to 6" high at 100 after I installed the DD omega.


Wow...seriously? That sounds crazy.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:12:28 PM EDT
I have the DD Omega and I really like it. Can't say that it improved my groups by iteslf... but it's really nice to have the rail for attaching a bipod or grip.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:21:08 PM EDT
i saw an article once in a magazine about testing a free float and non free float AR. using the same rifle, they shot it for groups ffirst with the stock HG then changed it to FF HG and measured the difference. and yes, indeed there was a difference, i cant remember exactly how much, but i think its worth the effort. I look for the magazine and tell you the exact info. I was once hooked into making my ARs HG free float but nowadays i rarely shoot past 100 yards so the stock HG is just fine. but i am still planning to change one of my AR in a DCM style free float tube
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:41:20 PM EDT
Slightly related to this topic, but someone in another thread mentioned something along the lines of how resting a free-floating barrel on sandbags basically nullifies the accuracy gain. Can someone explain?
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 7:52:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Shqype:
Slightly related to this topic, but someone in another thread mentioned something along the lines of how resting a free-floating barrel on sandbags basically nullifies the accuracy gain. Can someone explain?


Free float refers to the barrel not touching anything excepting the receiver...the forearm hangs on the receiver and not the barrel..doesn't touch the barrel at all. Changes/reduces/improves/whatever the barrel harmonics(vibrations), and will generaly yeild better accuracy. Commonly done on bolt action rifles where the wood puts pressure on the barrel. AR forearm/handguards will do the same thing.

resting the barrel itself on the sandbags after free float handguard install...just sort of renders the free float nil.. Shoot off sandbags...lay the forearm/handguards on the bags/rest.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:07:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By strat81:
If you will regularly be shooting high quality ammo such as that loaded with premium bullets, then a FF is worth it. If the bulk of your shooting is done with 55gr or 62gr FMJBT, then a FF won't add much.

Of course, you can probably get a basic FF tube and have someone install it for less than a DD Omega.


I would disagree. I've exclusively used either Lake City or Igman 62gr M855/SS109, and while it is no match ammo, I've consistently done roughly 1MOA groups @100 yards with the LC and 1.5 with the Igman green tip, as the 30-round group below illustrates (4x scope used in this example)


The rifle did roughly twice that before the FF.
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 8:33:15 PM EDT
I wonder how we hit anything before they started floating barrels
Link Posted: 9/7/2010 9:21:55 PM EDT
You can get a few great free float tubes for under the $2-300 you are looking to spend. Look on the EE.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:42:04 AM EDT
You can get a round free float tube for 60 bucks.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:24:52 AM EDT
FF is up to you?

I bought mycarbine/ M4 for range/SHTF/hunting
I really dont care about getting 1MOA groups!
I just use a regular rail on my 14.5 LMT M4
I bought the rail to hold my Light & FVG

Shooting 77gr smk / range bag, I can get some nice clover groups.


Ive been useing a Aimpoint ML2 since 2001 and use a Eotech 551F I bought in 05 on my spare M4

I bought a Weaver 1-3x20 scope to see If I'd like it
Nice scope and all
At 1x its like looking at my Aimpoint/Eotech

Main thing is my Groups didnt change.
So I sold my Scope off to a Member here at AR15.com
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:05:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By a_number_1:
Would you consider the free float worth 2-300 bucks?


Depends. If it is for pure accuracy, for that much money, I would go with new upper.

I built a accurate upper with no rail ff ($45.00) and 20 inch heavy barrel for less than $350.00 total.



Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:10:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 5:11:43 AM EDT by TheRealBluedog]
Originally Posted By a_number_1:


I like the stock handguards just fine, I have absolutely no use or desire for a railed forearm, and would simply cover it with decent rail covers. I'd only want the free float.



You say that now!!!!!

I got a DD Omega on the EE for $170 shipped. Not only did it give a remarkable improvement in accuracy, it gave the rifle an overall solid feel that I really like.

If you do add the Omega, you will start mounting stuff on it. It's just how the universe works. Don't fight it. I was never going to put a "shoot me light" on my rifle. That plan sure didn't work out.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 5:22:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By strat81:
If you will regularly be shooting high quality ammo such as that loaded with premium bullets, then a FF is worth it. If the bulk of your shooting is done with 55gr or 62gr FMJBT, then a FF won't add much.

Of course, you can probably get a basic FF tube and have someone install it for less than a DD Omega.



Absolutely incorrect.

Flex occurs in all barrels, regardless of ammunition type or size.

If your application calls for precision, then look into a floated barrel.

If you're a first-time user or are happy with just learning the basics, you can always upgrade later.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:21:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 7:22:40 AM EDT by strat81]
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Originally Posted By strat81:
If you will regularly be shooting high quality ammo such as that loaded with premium bullets, then a FF is worth it. If the bulk of your shooting is done with 55gr or 62gr FMJBT, then a FF won't add much.

Of course, you can probably get a basic FF tube and have someone install it for less than a DD Omega.



Absolutely incorrect.

Flex occurs in all barrels, regardless of ammunition type or size.

If your application calls for precision, then look into a floated barrel.

If you're a first-time user or are happy with just learning the basics, you can always upgrade later.


RIF.

If your application calls for precision, why would you use 55gr or 62gr FMJs - bullets that, in 5.56/.223, are generally considered to be at the bottom of the heap in terms of accuracy? If you want precision, you'll be shooting something loaded with Match Kings, Bergers, Hornady OTMs, etc.

I also didn't say adding a FF tube wouldn't do anything. I said it wouldn't add much.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:28:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By artsohc:
Originally Posted By mathecb:
Its not set up as a target rifle at all but with the cav arms handguards it was putting 4" groups at 50 yards. I installed a DD omega becasue of some stuff I needed to mount and the groups shrunk to 2" with the same ammo. POI changed to 6" high at 100 after I installed the DD omega.


Wow...seriously? That sounds crazy.


Yep. I was very disappointed with the rifles accuracy shooting 55gr ammo when I first got it. It was all over a paper plate at 100 yards. Very hard to zero.
After I installed the DD Omega it shoots about normal with cheap 55gr and 62gr ammo (3-4MOA). Its still not extremely accurate but then again im running a red dot and irons.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:33:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 12:48:23 PM EDT by tweeter]
Originally Posted By strat81:
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Originally Posted By strat81:
If you will regularly be shooting high quality ammo such as that loaded with premium bullets, then a FF is worth it. If the bulk of your shooting is done with 55gr or 62gr FMJBT, then a FF won't add much.

Of course, you can probably get a basic FF tube and have someone install it for less than a DD Omega.



Absolutely incorrect.

Flex occurs in all barrels, regardless of ammunition type or size.

If your application calls for precision, then look into a floated barrel.

If you're a first-time user or are happy with just learning the basics, you can always upgrade later.


RIF.

If your application calls for precision, why would you use 55gr or 62gr FMJs - bullets that, in 5.56/.223, are generally considered to be at the bottom of the heap in terms of accuracy? If you want precision, you'll be shooting something loaded with Match Kings, Bergers, Hornady OTMs, etc.

I also didn't say adding a FF tube wouldn't do anything. I said it wouldn't add much.



You're insinuating that 55 and 62 grain bullets are less accurate than heavier rounds and I simply stated that is wrong.
If you'd like to add that military surplus bullets with penetrator cores are less accurate, that would be true.

Bullet weight or brand has very little to do with decreasing barrel deflection. Adding that information to this discussion is not useful to a person who needs bare facts about simple equipment.

Norma, Lapua, Hornady, Nosler, Berger and Sierra all make 55 grain bullets. Most of them are made for varmint hunting prairie dogs and coyotes, an activity very closely related to benchrest shooting.

The vast majority of the rifles that are used for this activity are fired from free-floated barrels. The reason for this is consistency.

The shooter understands that they need every incremental advantage to place a 1/4" wide piece of metal into the brainstem of a small animal with a single shot. They miss their shot and the dog runs, missed opportunity.

OP: Whether at 100 yards or 800 yards, free-floating your barrel is useful. Especially with a wide array of affordable options in basic fore ends, the Armalite version is about $80. Much less than a trigger kit, something to think about next time you part together a barrel.

Even small variances in pressure on the barrel can have dramatic effects on point-of-impact. I'm not going to place anecdotal evidence as to how I know this, it's best when you go find out for yourself, the lesson has more value that way.
Go out and put some realistic stress on your barrel and then see how you perform without any.

At the very least, you'll be able to say to yourself "my problem is not with how I rest my barrel"
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 12:58:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/8/2010 1:02:48 PM EDT by kavik]
most of the people I know who think they are "shooters" would do better to put the mooney into training courses

I have run a non-ff ar15 in many tatical classes and iit's shot the best of the group. If you start pushing the distance and using match ammo, you definately will gain some accuracy with a free float. Out to 300 with mil ammo in normal combat situations, its all the dude behind the trigger IMO.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 1:29:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Originally Posted By strat81:
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Originally Posted By strat81:
If you will regularly be shooting high quality ammo such as that loaded with premium bullets, then a FF is worth it. If the bulk of your shooting is done with 55gr or 62gr FMJBT, then a FF won't add much.

Of course, you can probably get a basic FF tube and have someone install it for less than a DD Omega.



Absolutely incorrect.

Flex occurs in all barrels, regardless of ammunition type or size.

If your application calls for precision, then look into a floated barrel.

If you're a first-time user or are happy with just learning the basics, you can always upgrade later.


RIF.

If your application calls for precision, why would you use 55gr or 62gr FMJs - bullets that, in 5.56/.223, are generally considered to be at the bottom of the heap in terms of accuracy? If you want precision, you'll be shooting something loaded with Match Kings, Bergers, Hornady OTMs, etc.

I also didn't say adding a FF tube wouldn't do anything. I said it wouldn't add much.



You're insinuating that 55 and 62 grain bullets are less accurate than heavier rounds and I simply stated that is wrong.
If you'd like to add that military surplus bullets with penetrator cores are less accurate, that would be true.

Bullet weight or brand has very little to do with decreasing barrel deflection. Adding that information to this discussion is not useful to a person who needs bare facts about simple equipment.

Norma, Lapua, Hornady, Nosler, Berger and Sierra all make 55 grain bullets. Most of them are made for varmint hunting prairie dogs and coyotes, an activity very closely related to benchrest shooting.

The vast majority of the rifles that are used for this activity are fired from free-floated barrels. The reason for this is consistency.

The shooter understands that they need every incremental advantage to place a 1/4" wide piece of metal into the brainstem of a small animal with a single shot. They miss their shot and the dog runs, missed opportunity.



Once again, you fail at reading. I specifically mentioned 55gr and 62gr FMJBT. Even the best of such bullets are hardly match-grade quality, or the first choice when talking about accuracy, regardless of end target.

I am well aware of the premium bullets available in that general weight range which excel at making small groups. Heck, I even load some of them.

I concur that bullets have little to do with barrel deflection. However, reducing barrel deflection is only a means to an end. That particular end is accuracy. Bullet choice and barrel deflection both play a role in accuracy. The point is that you can shoot the best rifle in the world, but if you're shooting mediocre ammo through it, you'll never get better than a mediocre group.



Sadly, these forums are filled with recommendations for gear that are based on little to no information. Those asking the questions get ill-informed answers and are subsequently disappointed when their purchase fails to deliver on the promises made by others.

Again, as I said, load up with premium bullets and a FF tube is worth it. Shoot Wolf, Brown Bear, miscellaneous SS109, or whatever cheap 55gr FMJBT you can scrounge, and it's not worth it - especially not $300 for an Omega.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 1:33:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kavik:
most of the people I know who think they are "shooters" would do better to put the mooney into training courses


This is probably the best advice.

I still practice the basics with a .22 LR at 25 yards. $300 spent doing that is a wise choice.

Link Posted: 9/8/2010 1:49:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jlow:
Apart from the harmonics, a very strong and obvious reason to use a free float tube is if you want to shoot with a sling, a good free float tube will allow you to attach the sling to the tube instead of the barrel. That way, when you tighten up the sling to shoot it will not bend your barrel. It does not take much to bend the barrel of an AR, and you can imagine what even a very very small bend will do to your POI

I was recently at a local military shoot and one of the shooters there was puzzled with how far he was off zero during the match, basically it was barely on paper. He was really unhappy because he had made the point to come out the week before and zero the same rifle on the bench and could not understand how it had gone off zero so much. Well, I checked out his rifle and he had the sling attached to the barrel and it appeared that the test on the bench were all done without the sling…..


It takes a lot of force to bend the barrel. I doubt a person of average stature can bedn the barrel with no tools involved. The issue is of barrel harmonics.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 2:46:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Renn:
Originally Posted By jlow:
Apart from the harmonics, a very strong and obvious reason to use a free float tube is if you want to shoot with a sling, a good free float tube will allow you to attach the sling to the tube instead of the barrel. That way, when you tighten up the sling to shoot it will not bend your barrel. It does not take much to bend the barrel of an AR, and you can imagine what even a very very small bend will do to your POI

I was recently at a local military shoot and one of the shooters there was puzzled with how far he was off zero during the match, basically it was barely on paper. He was really unhappy because he had made the point to come out the week before and zero the same rifle on the bench and could not understand how it had gone off zero so much. Well, I checked out his rifle and he had the sling attached to the barrel and it appeared that the test on the bench were all done without the sling…..


It takes a lot of force to bend the barrel. I doubt a person of average stature can bedn the barrel with no tools involved. The issue is of barrel harmonics.


Sorry, but that is not true. Not to say that harmonics are not important - it is, but that does not mean barrel delfection is not equally important. Sure, a person of average statureI cannot visibaly deflect a barrel easily, but we are not talking about significant bends in a barrel but that very slight delfection that you cannot see i.e. minute of angle i.e. MOA is easily achived with slight pressure and you should know what that means and will do. This is not rocket sicienc but is something well known to competition shooters.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:01:45 PM EDT
If you'd be willing to take the time to bring it to the smithy, a Hogue tube could be a very good choice. No cheese-grater effect from rails, clean-looking, works fine.
Available quite reasonably-priced as well.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:42:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Renn:
Originally Posted By jlow:
Apart from the harmonics, a very strong and obvious reason to use a free float tube is if you want to shoot with a sling, a good free float tube will allow you to attach the sling to the tube instead of the barrel. That way, when you tighten up the sling to shoot it will not bend your barrel. It does not take much to bend the barrel of an AR, and you can imagine what even a very very small bend will do to your POI

I was recently at a local military shoot and one of the shooters there was puzzled with how far he was off zero during the match, basically it was barely on paper. He was really unhappy because he had made the point to come out the week before and zero the same rifle on the bench and could not understand how it had gone off zero so much. Well, I checked out his rifle and he had the sling attached to the barrel and it appeared that the test on the bench were all done without the sling…..


It takes a lot of force to bend the barrel. I doubt a person of average stature can bedn the barrel with no tools involved. The issue is of barrel harmonics.


There is a phenomena called tube jump in which the round actually causes the tube to straiten slightly as the round goes through. This causes an effect similar to when water goes through a garden hose, that is to whip opposite direction. This sometimes causes the round to by flung up (this is most noticeable in extreme hot sun, where the top of the tube is slightly warmer than the bottom and an in-perceivable downward bend occurs. The exact opposite often occurs in the rain, during extending firing the top of the tube cools more than the bottom causing a similar but upward bend and a downward flinging of the round.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 3:55:50 PM EDT
I have a question because I am also consider which way to go for a new build. Not trying to start a debate because I honestly dont know.

How does the Army Marksmanship Unit service rifle team make shots 200-1000 yds with what appears to be a normal non FF handguard? Also they are using the "Sling Technique". Is it pure skill and taking the barrel harmonics into consdieration?
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:12:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EatWorkSleep:
I have a question because I am also consider which way to go for a new build. Not trying to start a debate because I honestly dont know.

How does the Army Marksmanship Unit service rifle team make shots 200-1000 yds with what appears to be a normal non FF handguard? Also they are using the "Sling Technique". Is it pure skill and taking the barrel harmonics into consdieration?


Most of those guns are modified and have a free floating sleeve around the barrel.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:14:59 PM EDT
Thanks! I was thinking they may modify the rifle to keep the service look but pobably is a free float.
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 4:57:38 PM EDT
There are basically no negatives to FF a barrel, especially if a different forend or hand guards are going to be used anyway.

If you like using sling pressure without a FF tube, the sling must be kept in the exact same position, with the exact same tension every time.

If you use one of these, keep in mind that they are steel and add some weight.

Some day I'll be putting cooling holes through the bottom.

Or...I'll give the default advice...buy some ammo, and take a carbine course
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 6:47:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jlow:
Apart from the harmonics, a very strong and obvious reason to use a free float tube is if you want to shoot with a sling, a good free float tube will allow you to attach the sling to the tube instead of the barrel. That way, when you tighten up the sling to shoot it will not bend your barrel. It does not take much to bend the barrel of an AR, and you can imagine what even a very very small bend will do to your POI

I was recently at a local military shoot and one of the shooters there was puzzled with how far he was off zero during the match, basically it was barely on paper. He was really unhappy because he had made the point to come out the week before and zero the same rifle on the bench and could not understand how it had gone off zero so much. Well, I checked out his rifle and he had the sling attached to the barrel and it appeared that the test on the bench were all done without the sling…..


It sounds like we were at the same match! I shot last month and it was 99 degrees and sunny so when I got to my 4th target everything was HOT! I climbed into my Turner sling and all my shots were way off to the left( I am righthanded) almost off the paper. Next day I shot and gun was cooled down it was dead on......so I am free floating it!
Link Posted: 9/8/2010 7:22:38 PM EDT
I have a Leupold 2x7x33 VII mounted on my Stag Mod 8 and really like it. It is light and offers a wide field of view at 2x so it can be used for self defense. On the other hand at 7x I can hunt out to 200+ yards without a problem. If my eyes were better it would push my effective range beyond that mark. As for free floating the barrel I'm not too sure you'd gain all that much improvement to justify the cost. Try your rifle without a free float first sand see what you think before spending the cash. A two stage trigger might be a better investment. JMHO
Link Posted: 9/9/2010 12:36:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jlow:
Apart from the harmonics, a very strong and obvious reason to use a free float tube is if you want to shoot with a sling, a good free float tube will allow you to attach the sling to the tube instead of the barrel. That way, when you tighten up the sling to shoot it will not bend your barrel. It does not take much to bend the barrel of an AR, and you can imagine what even a very very small bend will do to your POI

I was recently at a local military shoot and one of the shooters there was puzzled with how far he was off zero during the match, basically it was barely on paper. He was really unhappy because he had made the point to come out the week before and zero the same rifle on the bench and could not understand how it had gone off zero so much. Well, I checked out his rifle and he had the sling attached to the barrel and it appeared that the test on the bench were all done without the sling…..


well, your statement did not describe the shooter slinging up in position. Be it at an NRA HP or EIC match.
Link Posted: 9/11/2010 1:23:44 PM EDT
Thanks for the input guys.

Nothing has really sold me on the free float yet, but it has convinced me to try it. I figure I'll get a Daniel Defense rail and try it out, since I don't have to cut off the delta ring. I'm bot sure if I'll like the profile of it and I could switch to a Midwest, Troy, Vltor, etc. later on.

Most of my shopping starts on the EE so, yeh, the cost I quoted is a bit high but still accurate for the point I was trying to make.

My plinking ammo is Wolf, it's cheap. I'm not expecting any accuracy. For reloading, My bullet will probably be a Sierra 77gr SMK cannelure, I want the cannelure and that's about the best option I know of. I'm open to suggestions if there's others.

I'm not really trying to build a precision gun, If I was, I would have done that from the start. I just want to scope and optimize the one I have, that will be good enough. I'd like it to be on target at 300 yards, since that's what my range is.

Honestly, the whole project is for a fun gun to shoot with my dad, and something that can at least shoot at the same targets as his 700 PSS.

Link Posted: 9/11/2010 2:28:51 PM EDT
In a word, yes.
Link Posted: 9/12/2010 11:48:07 AM EDT
Have you considered the two piece railed hand guards from MI....they cost but they are worth it if you don't want free float but want the rails....and they install just like the factory hand guards....I have two of them...one on my AR-10 A4 CB and the other on my M-15 A4 CB....just a suggestion....SASS
Top Top