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Posted: 9/6/2010 8:56:02 AM EDT
What kind of accuracy will I get with a scoped Spikes middy AR-15 ??? TIA.............
http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=113&products_id=443
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:59:34 AM EDT
Depends on the shooter.

A scope doesn't make a rifle more accurate; it sometimes enables a shooter to be more accurate. That being said, Spikes makes an excellent product, and there is no reason that it will be more or less accurate than any other vendor of the same quality. Further, there are other factors to accuracy besides the rifle and the shooter, such as ammunition. And each individual rifle has its own peculiarities.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 9:25:05 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 11:27:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By FALPhil:
Depends on the shooter.

A scope doesn't make a rifle more accurate; it sometimes enables a shooter to be more accurate. That being said, Spikes makes an excellent product, and there is no reason that it will be more or less accurate than any other vendor of the same quality. Further, there are other factors to accuracy besides the rifle and the shooter, such as ammunition. And each individual rifle has its own peculiarities.


I agree with this 100%. I get so tired of reading how someone is blaming the manufacture for the poor groups they are getting. The rifle is just one variable of the equation. I am currently waiting on Spikes to send me my middy with 9" BAR, so I can report more when it arrives, but I am certain it will do it's part if I feed it correctly and do my part.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 12:23:18 PM EDT
With good ammo and decent scope will it do 1 MOA ???
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:12:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 22mike:
With good ammo and decent scope will it do 1 MOA ???


Maybe But depends again on the load, the rest, the scope, and mainly the shooter. Asking 1 MOA from a 16" is sometimes do-able, but not usually.
Each rifle is going to be different, no matter if it's a bolt action or an AR. I am hard pressed anymore to get 1 MOA from my A2 Hbar. My middy Spikes is more accurate than me, but I have not shot any match grade ammo yet. I believe my Spikes is on par with my BCM middy, dunno if I can wring 1 MOA from either, nor if the rifles are capable.
I'd bet 1.5-2 MOA will be do-able, will try some 75-77 gr match ammo as soon as the weather cools a little. I cannot wring 1 MOA from my Noveske most days.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:15:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ricochet7:
Originally Posted By 22mike:
With good ammo and decent scope will it do 1 MOA ???


Maybe But depends again on the load, the rest, the scope, and mainly the shooter. Asking 1 MOA from a 16" is sometimes do-able, but not usually.
Each rifle is going to be different, no matter if it's a bolt action or an AR. I am hard pressed anymore to get 1 MOA from my A2 Hbar. My middy Spikes is more accurate than me, but I have not shot any match grade ammo yet. I believe my Spikes is on par with my BCM middy, dunno if I can wring 1 MOA from either, nor if the rifles are capable.
I'd bet 1.5-2 MOA will be do-able, will try some 75-77 gr match ammo as soon as the weather cools a little. I cannot wring 1 MOA from my Noveske most days.


I was under the impression that barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 2:06:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By ricochet7:
Originally Posted By 22mike:
With good ammo and decent scope will it do 1 MOA ???


Maybe But depends again on the load, the rest, the scope, and mainly the shooter. Asking 1 MOA from a 16" is sometimes do-able, but not usually.
Each rifle is going to be different, no matter if it's a bolt action or an AR. I am hard pressed anymore to get 1 MOA from my A2 Hbar. My middy Spikes is more accurate than me, but I have not shot any match grade ammo yet. I believe my Spikes is on par with my BCM middy, dunno if I can wring 1 MOA from either, nor if the rifles are capable.
I'd bet 1.5-2 MOA will be do-able, will try some 75-77 gr match ammo as soon as the weather cools a little. I cannot wring 1 MOA from my Noveske most days.


I was under the impression that barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy.


You were under the wrong impression. The longer the barrel the more the bullet will be stabilized when leaving the barrel. I see no reason why the Spikes middy, given the right match ammo and a shooter that knows what they are doing can't get 1 MOA out of it. This isn't going to happen with iron sights or a non magnified red dot. You will probably need 3-4 x magnification and 1 MOA should be achievable. I practice for more COM type shots. Paper plates are a good size example and what I tend to use most often.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:07:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 3:10:23 PM EDT by AK_Steve]
Originally Posted By NCHornet:
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By ricochet7:
Originally Posted By 22mike:
With good ammo and decent scope will it do 1 MOA ???


Maybe But depends again on the load, the rest, the scope, and mainly the shooter. Asking 1 MOA from a 16" is sometimes do-able, but not usually.
Each rifle is going to be different, no matter if it's a bolt action or an AR. I am hard pressed anymore to get 1 MOA from my A2 Hbar. My middy Spikes is more accurate than me, but I have not shot any match grade ammo yet. I believe my Spikes is on par with my BCM middy, dunno if I can wring 1 MOA from either, nor if the rifles are capable.
I'd bet 1.5-2 MOA will be do-able, will try some 75-77 gr match ammo as soon as the weather cools a little. I cannot wring 1 MOA from my Noveske most days.


I was under the impression that barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy.


You were under the wrong impression. The longer the barrel the more the bullet will be stabilized when leaving the barrel. I see no reason why the Spikes middy, given the right match ammo and a shooter that knows what they are doing can't get 1 MOA out of it. This isn't going to happen with iron sights or a non magnified red dot. You will probably need 3-4 x magnification and 1 MOA should be achievable. I practice for more COM type shots. Paper plates are a good size example and what I tend to use most often.


I don't think so. Only affects velocity. I guess accurate to a further distance would be correct.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:12:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By NCHornet:
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By ricochet7:
Originally Posted By 22mike:
With good ammo and decent scope will it do 1 MOA ???


Maybe But depends again on the load, the rest, the scope, and mainly the shooter. Asking 1 MOA from a 16" is sometimes do-able, but not usually.
Each rifle is going to be different, no matter if it's a bolt action or an AR. I am hard pressed anymore to get 1 MOA from my A2 Hbar. My middy Spikes is more accurate than me, but I have not shot any match grade ammo yet. I believe my Spikes is on par with my BCM middy, dunno if I can wring 1 MOA from either, nor if the rifles are capable.
I'd bet 1.5-2 MOA will be do-able, will try some 75-77 gr match ammo as soon as the weather cools a little. I cannot wring 1 MOA from my Noveske most days.


I was under the impression that barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy.


You were under the wrong impression. The longer the barrel the more the bullet will be stabilized when leaving the barrel. I see no reason why the Spikes middy, given the right match ammo and a shooter that knows what they are doing can't get 1 MOA out of it. This isn't going to happen with iron sights or a non magnified red dot. You will probably need 3-4 x magnification and 1 MOA should be achievable. I practice for more COM type shots. Paper plates are a good size example and what I tend to use most often.


I don't think so. Only affects velocity. I guess accurate to a further distance would be correct.


You are right, the other guys are wrong. It's sad to see people who lack even basic knowledge spread falsehoods.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:42:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 4:57:20 PM EDT by ricochet7]
Originally Posted By Market_Garden:
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By NCHornet:
Originally Posted By AK_Steve:
Originally Posted By ricochet7:
Originally Posted By 22mike:
With good ammo and decent scope will it do 1 MOA ???


Maybe But depends again on the load, the rest, the scope, and mainly the shooter. Asking 1 MOA from a 16" is sometimes do-able, but not usually.
Each rifle is going to be different, no matter if it's a bolt action or an AR. I am hard pressed anymore to get 1 MOA from my A2 Hbar. My middy Spikes is more accurate than me, but I have not shot any match grade ammo yet. I believe my Spikes is on par with my BCM middy, dunno if I can wring 1 MOA from either, nor if the rifles are capable.
I'd bet 1.5-2 MOA will be do-able, will try some 75-77 gr match ammo as soon as the weather cools a little. I cannot wring 1 MOA from my Noveske most days.


I was under the impression that barrel length has nothing to do with accuracy.


You were under the wrong impression. The longer the barrel the more the bullet will be stabilized when leaving the barrel. I see no reason why the Spikes middy, given the right match ammo and a shooter that knows what they are doing can't get 1 MOA out of it. This isn't going to happen with iron sights or a non magnified red dot. You will probably need 3-4 x magnification and 1 MOA should be achievable. I practice for more COM type shots. Paper plates are a good size example and what I tend to use most often.


I don't think so. Only affects velocity. I guess accurate to a further distance would be correct.


You are right, the other guys are wrong. It's sad to see people who lack even basic knowledge spread falsehoods.


Whoa- I didn't say it is un-doable. But in my experience, a carbine length barrel usually does not give ME 1MOA. I never said YOU can not, but most of my 16" (or 14.5") barreled rifles will not usually do 1 MOA. Yeah, an Hbar or even my Noveske might when everything is correct, but I do not expect any of my BCM, Spikes, Noveskes or others will do 1 MOA unless all is done correctly.
I do have benchrest type rifles that I can do 1MOA on a bad day, but they are not short barreled. Altho barrel length is not the reason they shoot tiny groups. Do most people expect 1 MOA from a 16" M4 rifle, I do not think they do (realistically)? Do you?

Edit to add- And, no 2 rifles (even consecutive serial numbered rifles) will shoot exactly alike...

I suggest look up Molon's threads on accuracy also...
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:26:36 PM EDT
With good ammo and decent scope will it do 1 MOA ???

My go-to control group ammo is Federal Gold Medal Match with the 69 grain Sierra MatchKing. If I cannot find it, I will use Black Hills with the 77 grain bullet. I use these two entries for control groups only, as generally, they shoot well in just about any rifle chambered in 223 or 5.56. My handload must be able to beat these two factory loadings.


Originally Posted By ricochet7:

Whoa- I didn't say it is un-doable. But in my experience, a carbine length barrel usually does not give ME 1MOA. I never said YOU can not, but most of my 16" (or 14.5") barreled rifles will not usually do 1 MOA. Yeah, an Hbar or even my Noveske might when everything is correct, but I do not expect any of my BCM, Spikes, Noveskes or others will do 1 MOA unless all is done correctly.

All other things equal, the shorter barrel for a given profile will give better accuracy. This is due to the fact that the shorter barrel is stiffer and mitigates barrel harmonics. At one time, I owned 14 FAL rifles in 308 Win, and invariably, the shorter barreled ones gave better accuracy than the longer barreled ones with ammo from the same lot. Now, if I tune the handloads to the rifle, I would have to throw that statement out the window. Unfortunately for us, all other things are not equal, so it pays to play with the ammo and find a load that matches the sweet spot for your rifle.

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