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Posted: 9/5/2010 12:51:08 PM EDT
Recently bought one of these, rifle was made April09.
Ive got some questions, figured yall would know. Here goes:
1. What the general consensus on these rifles.
2.Are the barrels cryo'ed or not? Im hearing yes/no.
3.Is this rifle considered "carbine" length, or "mid" length.
4.SOPMOD stock is awesome...but it still pulls my whiskers. Any solution to this?
5.Are there any MIM parts on the gun, if so, what?
6.Any specific brands/bullet weights that are shooting well out of these guns? Barrel is 1/7 twist btw.
7.Any other info yall might have specific to this rifle is greatly appreciated, thanks!
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 1:21:17 PM EDT

1. What the general consensus on these rifles.
LMT makes great products

3.Is this rifle considered "carbine" length, or "mid" length.
I beleive the 16" have carbine length gas system

4.SOPMOD stock is awesome...but it still pulls my whiskers. Any solution to this?
how does the SOPMOD pull whiskers? there are no cracks

6.Any specific brands/bullet weights that are shooting well out of these guns? Barrel is 1/7 twist btw.
55-77 are fine but faster twists like heavier longer bullets

7.Any other info yall might have specific to this rifle is greatly appreciated, thanks![/quote]
I have a SBRed Defender Lower. So far so good

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 2:27:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 5:34:29 PM EDT by jcrowl]
I have a 14.5" LMT (permed FH). Love it, a great gun ( I did put a BCM BCG in it)


Link Posted: 9/5/2010 3:05:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 3:07:04 PM EDT by unclebbob]
Thanks for answers thus far gents.
And..TAKE MY WORD...the SOPMOD stocke DOES pull whiskers, got a couple of mine again awhile ago.
All the adjustables Ive tried so far do.
Still looking to answers to rest of my questions, thanks so far!
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 3:43:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By unclebbob:
Thanks for answers thus far gents.
And..TAKE MY WORD...the SOPMOD stocke DOES pull whiskers, got a couple of mine again awhile ago.
All the adjustables Ive tried so far do.
Still looking to answers to rest of my questions, thanks so far!


You sure it's a SOPMOD and not a Modstock or EMOD? Pics would be awesome.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 3:47:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 3:48:46 PM EDT by Raizo_Sekai]
Originally Posted By 103:
Originally Posted By unclebbob:
Thanks for answers thus far gents.
And..TAKE MY WORD...the SOPMOD stocke DOES pull whiskers, got a couple of mine again awhile ago.
All the adjustables Ive tried so far do.
Still looking to answers to rest of my questions, thanks so far!


You sure it's a SOPMOD and not a Modstock or EMOD? Pics would be awesome.


lol thats what i was thinking. The SOPMOD is smooth.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:23:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 4:30:04 PM EDT by N2CH_556]
Originally Posted By unclebbob:
Recently bought one of these, rifle was made April09.
Ive got some questions, figured yall would know. Here goes:
1. What the general consensus on these rifles.
2.Are the barrels cryo'ed or not? Im hearing yes/no.
3.Is this rifle considered "carbine" length, or "mid" length.
4.SOPMOD stock is awesome...but it still pulls my whiskers. Any solution to this?
5.Are there any MIM parts on the gun, if so, what?
6.Any specific brands/bullet weights that are shooting well out of these guns? Barrel is 1/7 twist btw.
7.Any other info yall might have specific to this rifle is greatly appreciated, thanks!



1. Great weapon
2. ?
3. Carbine
4. Put your face on the smooth stock body and not where the stock/tube meet where whiskers can get snagged. Consider collapsing the stock a few notches.
5. Gas key, possibly? Don't worry about it.
6. 55-77gr; you find the best for your needs.
7. Congrats. Great weapon.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:34:23 PM EDT
LMT makes a great product. I could never understand the worry or concern of MIM parts? Most always those parts that are MIM'ed have no load bearing on them nor crucial parts that take a tough load.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 4:55:52 PM EDT
Oh boy, once again the MIM controversy is nigh!

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:07:06 PM EDT
LMT= VERY good shit
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 5:44:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By survivorman:
LMT= VERY good shit


True.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:14:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Raizo_Sekai:

1. What the general consensus on these rifles.
LMT makes great products

3.Is this rifle considered "carbine" length, or "mid" length.
I beleive the 16" have carbine length gas system

4.SOPMOD stock is awesome...but it still pulls my whiskers. Any solution to this?
how does the SOPMOD pull whiskers? there are no cracks

6.Any specific brands/bullet weights that are shooting well out of these guns? Barrel is 1/7 twist btw.
55-77 are fine but faster twists like heavier longer bullets

7.Any other info yall might have specific to this rifle is greatly appreciated, thanks!

I have a SBRed Defender Lower. So far so good

[/quote]

What he said. My understanding to question 2 is yes.

I haven't noticed the hair pulling on the sopmod stock. Have 2 of them(one on an ar-10 and one on my sbr'd defender lower). I'm a harry sob as well.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:30:05 PM EDT
I looked at a factory Defender 2000 over the weekend. I was actually disappointed with the trigger- which felt very gritty and had a lot of creep (even though it was a regular single stage). It was aful compared to the comparable (same mil type stock single stage) triggers on either of ARs. I'm glad that LMT makes a ban compliant variant, but the lack of quality on that trigger is a turn-off on a 1300 rifle.

As much as I am a bone stock type of guy- I live with a1 and a2 type pistol grips, the first thing I said when I held the LMT was damn comfortable pistol grip. My dad said the same thing,.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 6:54:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JAD:
I looked at a factory Defender 2000 over the weekend. I was actually disappointed with the trigger- which felt very gritty and had a lot of creep (even though it was a regular single stage). It was aful compared to the comparable (same mil type stock single stage) triggers on either of ARs. I'm glad that LMT makes a ban compliant variant, but the lack of quality on that trigger is a turn-off on a 1300 rifle.

As much as I am a bone stock type of guy- I live with a1 and a2 type pistol grips, the first thing I said when I held the LMT was damn comfortable pistol grip. My dad said the same thing,.


Could just be a bad one. The trigger on my defender lower is better then my bcm lower and is better then what my old sw had. It is also better then my friends colt 6921.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:10:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By unclebbob:
Recently bought one of these, rifle was made April09.
Ive got some questions, figured yall would know. Here goes:
1. What the general consensus on these rifles.
2.Are the barrels cryo'ed or not? Im hearing yes/no.
3.Is this rifle considered "carbine" length, or "mid" length.
4.SOPMOD stock is awesome...but it still pulls my whiskers. Any solution to this?
5.Are there any MIM parts on the gun, if so, what?
6.Any specific brands/bullet weights that are shooting well out of these guns? Barrel is 1/7 twist btw.
7.Any other info yall might have specific to this rifle is greatly appreciated, thanks!




I have a Defender 2000 14.5 M4 bought in 2005
Came with a TD battle Grip & SOPMOD & 2 stage trigger ( under 3000rds ) no jams

I also have a Home Built Bushmaster/VLTOR lower with a 14.5 LMT M4 upper under 2000rds no jams

Its a Carbine gas system wich is PROVEN !!


My 2 M4`s seem to like the 77gr SMK bullet the best of all
Black Hills or Federal

Mostly shoot M855/SS109/M193

I rate LMT high on my List for SHTF M4`s

Ive Own
Colt
Bushmaster
LMT

They all run great


Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:15:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ccosby:
Originally Posted By JAD:
I looked at a factory Defender 2000 over the weekend. I was actually disappointed with the trigger- which felt very gritty and had a lot of creep (even though it was a regular single stage). It was aful compared to the comparable (same mil type stock single stage) triggers on either of ARs. I'm glad that LMT makes a ban compliant variant, but the lack of quality on that trigger is a turn-off on a 1300 rifle.

As much as I am a bone stock type of guy- I live with a1 and a2 type pistol grips, the first thing I said when I held the LMT was damn comfortable pistol grip. My dad said the same thing,.


Could just be a bad one. The trigger on my defender lower is better then my bcm lower and is better then what my old sw had. It is also better then my friends colt 6921.



I cant complain about mine since its came with a 2stage

But I have had guys at the range try my Home built bushmaster lower with bushmaster LPK and say awesome trigger
Its a regular AR15 trigger


I dont get guys getting all hung up about a AR15 trigger
all my Bushmasters/Colts seem the same to me

Link Posted: 9/5/2010 7:54:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By FMJ:
Originally Posted By ccosby:
Originally Posted By JAD:
I looked at a factory Defender 2000 over the weekend. I was actually disappointed with the trigger- which felt very gritty and had a lot of creep (even though it was a regular single stage). It was aful compared to the comparable (same mil type stock single stage) triggers on either of ARs. I'm glad that LMT makes a ban compliant variant, but the lack of quality on that trigger is a turn-off on a 1300 rifle.

As much as I am a bone stock type of guy- I live with a1 and a2 type pistol grips, the first thing I said when I held the LMT was damn comfortable pistol grip. My dad said the same thing,.


Could just be a bad one. The trigger on my defender lower is better then my bcm lower and is better then what my old sw had. It is also better then my friends colt 6921.



I cant complain about mine since its came with a 2stage

But I have had guys at the range try my Home built bushmaster lower with bushmaster LPK and say awesome trigger
Its a regular AR15 trigger


I dont get guys getting all hung up about a AR15 trigger
all my Bushmasters/Colts seem the same to me


The trigger on the LMT I looked at felt worse than any that I have felt before. Mybe it was a bad one. It did not break clean at all. Dad agreed that it felt way worse than either of mine.

I don't have anything against LMT. I genuinely like their products. I own a PWA preban, and eventually, I intend on buying one of their 10.5 uppers. I may well buy some of their parts as well. I was just a little disappointed with what I saw/ felt over the weekend. NOt something that I would expect on a $1300 rifle.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 9:16:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 9:21:56 PM EDT by unclebbob]
THANKS for all the responses!
Let me address a couple things. I promise its a 100% SOPMOD stock...nothing else! Im gonna experiment on the range Monday with wats to keeo it from pulling out my whiskers on right side of face, Ill try moving the stock.
Not worried about the possible MIM parts at all, I just want to learn all about the rifle.
Would still like to know FOR SURE if barrels are cryoed or not, Ill probably email LMT and ask.
Going to the range tomorrow and shoot her for 2nd time. Ill let yall know how she does. Also..barrel is 16". Does it still make it a carbine, or mid-length?
Thanks for the good comments!
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 9:44:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By unclebbob:
THANKS for all the responses!
Let me address a couple things. I promise its a 100% SOPMOD stock...nothing else! Im gonna experiment on the range Monday with wats to keeo it from pulling out my whiskers on right side of face, Ill try moving the stock.
Not worried about the possible MIM parts at all, I just want to learn all about the rifle.
Would still like to know FOR SURE if barrels are cryoed or not, Ill probably email LMT and ask.
Going to the range tomorrow and shoot her for 2nd time. Ill let yall know how she does. Also..barrel is 16". Does it still make it a carbine, or mid-length?
Thanks for the good comments!


OK, I've been doing this for a while now (well, not really, just a few years), but I don't always keep up with what's going on. What's the significance of a "cryoed barrel?" Is there something about it that makes it better than a "normal CL barrel?"
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 10:02:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/5/2010 10:11:22 PM EDT by N2CH_556]
Originally Posted By unclebbob:
THANKS for all the responses!
Let me address a couple things. I promise its a 100% SOPMOD stock...nothing else! Im gonna experiment on the range Monday with wats to keeo it from pulling out my whiskers on right side of face, Ill try moving the stock.
Not worried about the possible MIM parts at all, I just want to learn all about the rifle.
Would still like to know FOR SURE if barrels are cryoed or not, Ill probably email LMT and ask.
Going to the range tomorrow and shoot her for 2nd time. Ill let yall know how she does. Also..barrel is 16". Does it still make it a carbine, or mid-length?
Thanks for the good comments!


I'm unfamiliar with the term, "cryoed barrel"... sorry. Are you referring to the finish, or some other barrel manufacturing process or feature? E.g., here are some I just grabbed from the BCM description on their standard barrels:

  • Mil-Spec 11595E - Barrel Steel

  • Chrome Bore and Chamber

  • Manganese Phosphate Barrel Finish

  • HPT (High-Pressure Test) / MP (Magnetic Particle Inspected) Inspected Barrels

  • ???



The terms "carbine" and "mid-length" refer to the gas system, not the barrel length.

Have fun shooting tomorrow.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 10:30:55 PM EDT
Love my LMT. Super gun, the only malfunction I've ever had was a short stroke from Monarch steel 223.

My first ar15, I'll never sell it.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 10:55:40 PM EDT
My Sopmod catches my wiskers also.........suck it up, you got a great gun.
Link Posted: 9/5/2010 11:06:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By unclebbob:
Recently bought one of these, rifle was made April09.
Ive got some questions, figured yall would know. Here goes:
1. What the general consensus on these rifles.
- Definitely good to go... one of my personal favorites.
2.Are the barrels cryo'ed or not? Im hearing yes/no.
- Dunno
3.Is this rifle considered "carbine" length, or "mid" length.
- Carbine gas system
4.SOPMOD stock is awesome...but it still pulls my whiskers. Any solution to this?
- Dunno about this.
5.Are there any MIM parts on the gun, if so, what? - MIM?
- Newer gas keys are MIM... shouldn't be an issue. I haven't seen anyone really having issues.
6.Any specific brands/bullet weights that are shooting well out of these guns? Barrel is 1/7 twist btw.
- Hornady TAP 75gr (both 223 and 5.56), Black Hills 77gr, M855/M193, and some reloads with 70gr TSX.
7.Any other info yall might have specific to this rifle is greatly appreciated, thanks!
- Nothing to add... you bought a great rifle though!


Link Posted: 9/6/2010 12:13:34 AM EDT
Thank you again fellas, I appreciate your answers.
Allow me to give MY answer to what a "cryo'ed" barrel is.
Nothing more than a barrel thats been cryogenically treated.
I talked on the phone a couple months back to a very nice gent who runs -300 BELOW in IL. somewhere.
Barrels treated have been proven beyond doubt to be stronger, because its re-aligns the steel at the molecular level.
According not only to him, but other shooters Ive talked to, these are other benefits, some greater, some lesser, according to the specific barrel, and how it was made:
easier cleaning, less, or greatly reduced stringing of groups as barrels heats up, GREATLY increased barrel life, and just an all around better barrel. Yes, many report more accuracy too.
Check out the -300 Below website, itll tell you all you need to know.
Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 12:53:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By unclebbob:
Thank you again fellas, I appreciate your answers.
Allow me to give MY answer to what a "cryo'ed" barrel is.
Nothing more than a barrel thats been cryogenically treated.
I talked on the phone a couple months back to a very nice gent who runs -300 BELOW in IL. somewhere.
Barrels treated have been proven beyond doubt to be stronger, because its re-aligns the steel at the molecular level.
According not only to him, but other shooters Ive talked to, these are other benefits, some greater, some lesser, according to the specific barrel, and how it was made:
easier cleaning, less, or greatly reduced stringing of groups as barrels heats up, GREATLY increased barrel life, and just an all around better barrel. Yes, many report more accuracy too.
Check out the -300 Below website, itll tell you all you need to know.
Hope this helps.

Seems fishy ... I fail to see the positive effect making something that was formed in very high heat very cold.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 1:48:49 AM EDT
I love my LMT. It is by far my most favorite and best shooting of all the ARs I've owned.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:14:40 AM EDT
As stated in their current year catalog, all of their barrels are cryo treated. All bolts and barrels are hp/mp too.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 3:19:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2010 3:23:47 AM EDT by Primos]
Originally Posted By sweatpants:

Originally Posted By unclebbob:
Thank you again fellas, I appreciate your answers.
Allow me to give MY answer to what a "cryo'ed" barrel is.
Nothing more than a barrel thats been cryogenically treated.
I talked on the phone a couple months back to a very nice gent who runs -300 BELOW in IL. somewhere.
Barrels treated have been proven beyond doubt to be stronger, because its re-aligns the steel at the molecular level.
According not only to him, but other shooters Ive talked to, these are other benefits, some greater, some lesser, according to the specific barrel, and how it was made:
easier cleaning, less, or greatly reduced stringing of groups as barrels heats up, GREATLY increased barrel life, and just an all around better barrel. Yes, many report more accuracy too.
Check out the -300 Below website, itll tell you all you need to know.
Hope this helps.

Seems fishy ... I fail to see the positive effect making something that was formed in very high heat very cold.


Whether you think it's 'fishy' or not, cryo stress relieving is a legitimate practice. I won't claim to understand the metallurgy involved, but it can have benefits in all kinds of things.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 4:42:48 AM EDT
Love mine, In the last year I have put around over 2500 rounds through it, cleaned it three times, and have NEVER had one kind of failure.

Last thursday I put the Bushnell 1-4x elite on top and was consistently hitting a large piece of steel at 500 yards. The steel was about 24" wide and 40" tall.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 5:09:21 AM EDT
I own a MWS and an MRP. They are extraordinary rifles.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:08:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By unclebbob:
Thank you again fellas, I appreciate your answers.
Allow me to give MY answer to what a "cryo'ed" barrel is.
Nothing more than a barrel thats been cryogenically treated.
I talked on the phone a couple months back to a very nice gent who runs -300 BELOW in IL. somewhere.
Barrels treated have been proven beyond doubt to be stronger, because its re-aligns the steel at the molecular level.
According not only to him, but other shooters Ive talked to, these are other benefits, some greater, some lesser, according to the specific barrel, and how it was made:
easier cleaning, less, or greatly reduced stringing of groups as barrels heats up, GREATLY increased barrel life, and just an all around better barrel. Yes, many report more accuracy too.
Check out the -300 Below website, itll tell you all you need to know.
Hope this helps.

Originally Posted By Primos:
As stated in their current year catalog, all of their barrels are cryo treated. All bolts and barrels are hp/mp too.





Ah.. ok. I see that at http://www.lmtstore.com/featured-products/defender-standard-patrol-model-16.html:

Cryogenically treated barrel to increase accuracy, barrel life and easier cleaning




Learn something new everyday.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:19:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sweatpants:

Originally Posted By unclebbob:
Thank you again fellas, I appreciate your answers.
Allow me to give MY answer to what a "cryo'ed" barrel is.
Nothing more than a barrel thats been cryogenically treated.
I talked on the phone a couple months back to a very nice gent who runs -300 BELOW in IL. somewhere.
Barrels treated have been proven beyond doubt to be stronger, because its re-aligns the steel at the molecular level.
According not only to him, but other shooters Ive talked to, these are other benefits, some greater, some lesser, according to the specific barrel, and how it was made:
easier cleaning, less, or greatly reduced stringing of groups as barrels heats up, GREATLY increased barrel life, and just an all around better barrel. Yes, many report more accuracy too.
Check out the -300 Below website, itll tell you all you need to know.
Hope this helps.

Seems fishy ... I fail to see the positive effect making something that was formed in very high heat very cold.


I've seen a few things talking about how it helps. Usually I see it talked about for knife's as it helps keep the blade sharp later. I've also read about it being used in tooling dies to help make them work longer.

Not sure if how well it will help a barrel but it is something used in other industries.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 8:55:09 AM EDT
OP do you use nose to Ch method of shooting? if you do there is no way it can pull you whiskers.
Link Posted: 9/6/2010 11:16:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By unclebbob:
THANKS for all the responses!
Let me address a couple things. I promise its a 100% SOPMOD stock...nothing else! Im gonna experiment on the range Monday with wats to keeo it from pulling out my whiskers on right side of face, Ill try moving the stock.
Not worried about the possible MIM parts at all, I just want to learn all about the rifle.
Would still like to know FOR SURE if barrels are cryoed or not, Ill probably email LMT and ask.
Going to the range tomorrow and shoot her for 2nd time. Ill let yall know how she does. Also..barrel is 16". Does it still make it a carbine, or mid-length?
Thanks for the good comments!


If you have a standard mil spec LMT upper with the FSB than you have a carbine length gas system.
If you have LMT's MRP (Monolithic Rail Platform) your 16 inch barrel would be a mid length gas system. Only the 14.5 and below are carbine.
I think you have the standard upper, the MRP has the quick change barrel set up.
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