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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - best charging handle (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 5/18/2010 5:19:48 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I have both the PRI and several GFs. I have been using the GB on my primary partly because I'm used to it. I shoot mainly suppressed (SF Mini) and will do an A/B test wrt gas diversion next time I train.

ETA:

The gas buster is much more substantial than the GF. That's not to say it's better, it just looks and feels much more substantial. In addition the "T" on the GB is wider giving both right and lefties more to grab a hold of.

Thanks for the post "bomber", very helpful. The photos really help

Posted: 5/19/2010 5:13:21 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
The only thing that sucks about the BCM GF is that once you try one, you have to replace the rest of your AR's with GunFighters

No kidding!

Posted: 5/19/2010 5:14:16 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why are Gunfighter charging handles marked VLTOR?

VLTOR design and patent. BCM manufactures.

The real advantage of the Bravo/VLTOR gunfighter primarily matters if you want or need to run an extended latch, or use a suppressor (any of you guys running a can, compare a GF to a PRI and see what you think) . Otherwise, a good forged standard charging handle will serve you well.

Nope, the advantage is reaction hand charging. It's 3x easier with a BCM compared to a std handle.

Posted: 5/19/2010 5:35:21 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
The real advantage of the Bravo/VLTOR gunfighter primarily matters if you want or need to run an extended latch, or use a suppressor (any of you guys running a can, compare a GF to a PRI and see what you think) . Otherwise, a good forged standard charging handle will serve you well.

Quoted:
I have both the PRI and several GFs. I have been using the GB on my primary partly because I'm used to it. I shoot mainly suppressed (SF Mini) and will do an A/B test wrt gas diversion next time I train.

I don't see anywhere in BCMs advertisement or promotion of this charging handle that it was ever designed to divert gas like a PRI. I think a lot of people make that assumption based on appearances. The BCM is not a "gas buster" handle. It was designed to remove stress from the pin to be compatible with the modern manual of arms for the AR platform. A more violent one sided operation of the charging handle.

Posted: 5/19/2010 6:24:19 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The real advantage of the Bravo/VLTOR gunfighter primarily matters if you want or need to run an extended latch, or use a suppressor (any of you guys running a can, compare a GF to a PRI and see what you think) . Otherwise, a good forged standard charging handle will serve you well.

Quoted:
I have both the PRI and several GFs. I have been using the GB on my primary partly because I'm used to it. I shoot mainly suppressed (SF Mini) and will do an A/B test wrt gas diversion next time I train.

I don't see anywhere in BCMs advertisement or promotion of this charging handle that it was ever designed to divert gas like a PRI. I think a lot of people make that assumption based on appearances. The BCM is not a "gas buster" handle. It was designed to remove stress from the pin to be compatible with the modern manual of arms for the AR platform. A more violent one sided operation of the charging handle.

I agree with you 100%. BCM makes no such claims. I was gonna see how it did for my my own edification.

Posted: 5/19/2010 7:18:13 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The real advantage of the Bravo/VLTOR gunfighter primarily matters if you want or need to run an extended latch, or use a suppressor (any of you guys running a can, compare a GF to a PRI and see what you think) . Otherwise, a good forged standard charging handle will serve you well.

Quoted:
I have both the PRI and several GFs. I have been using the GB on my primary partly because I'm used to it. I shoot mainly suppressed (SF Mini) and will do an A/B test wrt gas diversion next time I train.

I don't see anywhere in BCMs advertisement or promotion of this charging handle that it was ever designed to divert gas like a PRI. I think a lot of people make that assumption based on appearances. The BCM is not a "gas buster" handle. It was designed to remove stress from the pin to be compatible with the modern manual of arms for the AR platform. A more violent one sided operation of the charging handle.

I agree with you 100%. BCM makes no such claims. I was gonna see how it did for my my own edification.

Were you planning on going stock for stock or trying that RTV silcone modification that's floating around?

Posted: 5/19/2010 5:56:05 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The real advantage of the Bravo/VLTOR gunfighter primarily matters if you want or need to run an extended latch, or use a suppressor (any of you guys running a can, compare a GF to a PRI and see what you think) . Otherwise, a good forged standard charging handle will serve you well.

Quoted:
I have both the PRI and several GFs. I have been using the GB on my primary partly because I'm used to it. I shoot mainly suppressed (SF Mini) and will do an A/B test wrt gas diversion next time I train.

I don't see anywhere in BCMs advertisement or promotion of this charging handle that it was ever designed to divert gas like a PRI. I think a lot of people make that assumption based on appearances. The BCM is not a "gas buster" handle. It was designed to remove stress from the pin to be compatible with the modern manual of arms for the AR platform. A more violent one sided operation of the charging handle.

I never said BCM made such a claim and I'm not basing my statement on looks. I have both and when running suppressed I can't note a significant difference. What does your experience tell you?

Posted: 5/19/2010 5:58:35 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Why are Gunfighter charging handles marked VLTOR?

VLTOR design and patent. BCM manufactures.

The real advantage of the Bravo/VLTOR gunfighter primarily matters if you want or need to run an extended latch, or use a suppressor (any of you guys running a can, compare a GF to a PRI and see what you think) . Otherwise, a good forged standard charging handle will serve you well.

Nope, the advantage is reaction hand charging. It's 3x easier with a BCM compared to a std handle.

Thus the reason to run an extended latch.

Posted: 5/19/2010 6:39:44 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The real advantage of the Bravo/VLTOR gunfighter primarily matters if you want or need to run an extended latch, or use a suppressor (any of you guys running a can, compare a GF to a PRI and see what you think) . Otherwise, a good forged standard charging handle will serve you well.

Quoted:
I have both the PRI and several GFs. I have been using the GB on my primary partly because I'm used to it. I shoot mainly suppressed (SF Mini) and will do an A/B test wrt gas diversion next time I train.

I don't see anywhere in BCMs advertisement or promotion of this charging handle that it was ever designed to divert gas like a PRI. I think a lot of people make that assumption based on appearances. The BCM is not a "gas buster" handle. It was designed to remove stress from the pin to be compatible with the modern manual of arms for the AR platform. A more violent one sided operation of the charging handle.

I never said BCM made such a claim and I'm not basing my statement on looks. I have both and when running suppressed I can't note a significant difference. What does your experience tell you?

I don't run my AR supressed. I have zero need or use for it.

All I am saying is that is not the "primary" use for this charging handle.

Posted: 5/21/2010 3:04:51 PM EDT

[#10]

"Look Mom, no T-handle!!!"

Think outside the AR15 charging handle box.

Posted: 5/21/2010 5:10:28 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The real advantage of the Bravo/VLTOR gunfighter primarily matters if you want or need to run an extended latch, or use a suppressor (any of you guys running a can, compare a GF to a PRI and see what you think) . Otherwise, a good forged standard charging handle will serve you well.

Quoted:
I have both the PRI and several GFs. I have been using the GB on my primary partly because I'm used to it. I shoot mainly suppressed (SF Mini) and will do an A/B test wrt gas diversion next time I train.

I don't see anywhere in BCMs advertisement or promotion of this charging handle that it was ever designed to divert gas like a PRI. I think a lot of people make that assumption based on appearances. The BCM is not a "gas buster" handle. It was designed to remove stress from the pin to be compatible with the modern manual of arms for the AR platform. A more violent one sided operation of the charging handle.

I never said BCM made such a claim and I'm not basing my statement on looks. I have both and when running suppressed I can't note a significant difference. What does your experience tell you?

I don't run my AR supressed. I have zero need or use for it.

All I am saying is that is not the "primary" use for this charging handle.

Obviously

Posted: 5/21/2010 8:56:46 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
I have both the PRI and several GFs. I have been using the GB on my primary partly because I'm used to it. I shoot mainly suppressed (SF Mini) and will do an A/B test wrt gas diversion next time I train.

ETA:

The gas buster is much more substantial than the GF. That's not to say it's better, it just looks and feels much more substantial. In addition the "T" on the GB is wider giving both right and lefties more to grab a hold of.

The PRI is designed to divert the gas encountered when using a can, and it works very well. The underhang off the back is there for a reason, but I've used and own both, and by no stretch of the imagination does it feel more substantial to me. I'm actually rather surprised to see that comment.

Posted: 5/21/2010 11:56:56 PM EDT

[#13]

I agree; that's why I initially made the comment regarding the GF as a GB substitute. Personally I think the fit/finish of the gas buster is better but to me the GF is a more robust charging handle (not even considering that its half the price). For what its worth, all my GB's will soon be on the EE except for one; the rest of my AR's now wear GF4s.

Stick, have you run DI suppressed and compared the GF to the GB?

Posted: 5/22/2010 12:27:04 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ah, kool-aid sure is refreshing late in the afternoon. A year or two ago if it was not the PRI Gasbuster then you were using crap, banned from the cool kids table, and were going to blow your eyes out if you popped a primer, today it is BCM and the Gunfighter that has the flavor of the month award, and the blow your eyes out concern is suddenly gone.
Gotta love it.

The typical bullshit response often found here.

Two years ago the BCM handle wasn't around. Now it is and it's a great improvement over the previous offerings. All this "kool-aid" or "flavor of the month" BS get's old. Try to start looking at things objectively.

True and true.
The flavor of the month B.S. does get old from a couple of perspectives.
Any who've lurked here since the days when this place was a list server have seen the many,many flavors of the month come and go.
Drinking of the kool aid is commonplace and does blinds ones objectivity.

Posted: 5/22/2010 12:48:35 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ah, kool-aid sure is refreshing late in the afternoon. A year or two ago if it was not the PRI Gasbuster then you were using crap, banned from the cool kids table, and were going to blow your eyes out if you popped a primer, today it is BCM and the Gunfighter that has the flavor of the month award, and the blow your eyes out concern is suddenly gone.
Gotta love it.

The typical bullshit response often found here.

Two years ago the BCM handle wasn't around. Now it is and it's a great improvement over the previous offerings. All this "kool-aid" or "flavor of the month" BS get's old. Try to start looking at things objectively.

True and true.
The flavor of the month B.S. does get old from a couple of perspectives.
Any who've lurked here since the days when this place was a list server have seen the many,many flavors of the month come and go.
Drinking of the kool aid is commonplace and does blinds ones objectivity.

I think there is truth in that but then again I've been here for a LONG time. Sometimes though, the koolaid is on the money and in this case, I think Eric and Paul got it right. Look, considering how long I've been a member, and how many posts I've made, I don't take this shit lightly (some of my exchanges regarding billet uppers are my favorite). But if you try these GF charging handles I think you'll "feel" the difference so don't sell yourself short just because it's a popular item. There is value here if you're open to discovering it.

Posted: 5/22/2010 1:06:02 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ah, kool-aid sure is refreshing late in the afternoon. A year or two ago if it was not the PRI Gasbuster then you were using crap, banned from the cool kids table, and were going to blow your eyes out if you popped a primer, today it is BCM and the Gunfighter that has the flavor of the month award, and the blow your eyes out concern is suddenly gone.
Gotta love it.

The typical bullshit response often found here.

Two years ago the BCM handle wasn't around. Now it is and it's a great improvement over the previous offerings. All this "kool-aid" or "flavor of the month" BS get's old. Try to start looking at things objectively.

Typical "cult of personality" answer. You dont care about the product just the name. ie. CULT OF PERSONALITY. I will take a forged CH over a billet any day of the week. Why dont you quote all of his post instead of doing a YouTube dissection of his post? You know he is totally correct.

Posted: 5/22/2010 5:32:22 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ah, kool-aid sure is refreshing late in the afternoon. A year or two ago if it was not the PRI Gasbuster then you were using crap, banned from the cool kids table, and were going to blow your eyes out if you popped a primer, today it is BCM and the Gunfighter that has the flavor of the month award, and the blow your eyes out concern is suddenly gone.
Gotta love it.

The typical bullshit response often found here.

Two years ago the BCM handle wasn't around. Now it is and it's a great improvement over the previous offerings. All this "kool-aid" or "flavor of the month" BS get's old. Try to start looking at things objectively.

Typical "cult of personality" answer. You dont care about the product just the name. ie. CULT OF PERSONALITY. I will take a forged CH over a billet any day of the week. Why dont you quote all of his post instead of doing a YouTube dissection of his post? You know he is totally correct.

Considering I had one since day one I would have to disagree. I have also explained that I tried pretty much every CH out there and have even been in situations using several styles back to back in a short period of time in a malfunction clearing drill. So when you say I only care about the name not the product you are making an assumption that you really can't back up. I don't fall prey to that "cult of personality" mindset so take your bullshit somewhere else too. The only reason the GF CH is still on my AR is because it works well. If it didn't I would go back to what was there before. My rifle isn't some showpiece wall hanger the ones you see in pictures around here. It doesn't have parts on there just for the sake of having them. Every piece is justified and has it's purpose. Have you ever even used one? Have you ever seen one outside of pictures on the internet?

I didn't quote the whole response because it was not nesessary. If he had left out that first statement which served no purpose (much like your entire post) I wouldn't have had to quote it at all.

Posted: 5/22/2010 5:33:17 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ah, kool-aid sure is refreshing late in the afternoon. A year or two ago if it was not the PRI Gasbuster then you were using crap, banned from the cool kids table, and were going to blow your eyes out if you popped a primer, today it is BCM and the Gunfighter that has the flavor of the month award, and the blow your eyes out concern is suddenly gone.
Gotta love it.

The typical bullshit response often found here.

Two years ago the BCM handle wasn't around. Now it is and it's a great improvement over the previous offerings. All this "kool-aid" or "flavor of the month" BS get's old. Try to start looking at things objectively.

Typical "cult of personality" answer. You dont care about the product just the name. ie. CULT OF PERSONALITY. I will take a forged CH over a billet any day of the week. Why dont you quote all of his post instead of doing a YouTube dissection of his post? You know he is totally correct.

What does "Living Colour" have to do with BCM handles?

Seriously though, you don't get it, blame kool-aid drinkers, go right ahead. Buy a GF and see for yourself. I ran standard handles, then a PRI with Combat Latch and I can feel a difference in support hand charging with the GF. My buddy trashed a forged handle with a PRI latch last summer on his precision rig. Sometimes people here are quick to jock-ride the latest and greatest manufacturers products, but this simply isn't the case with this item. If you still feel it is, you're as narrow minded as the jock-riders.

Posted: 5/22/2010 6:20:40 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ah, kool-aid sure is refreshing late in the afternoon. A year or two ago if it was not the PRI Gasbuster then you were using crap, banned from the cool kids table, and were going to blow your eyes out if you popped a primer, today it is BCM and the Gunfighter that has the flavor of the month award, and the blow your eyes out concern is suddenly gone.
Gotta love it.

The typical bullshit response often found here.

Two years ago the BCM handle wasn't around. Now it is and it's a great improvement over the previous offerings. All this "kool-aid" or "flavor of the month" BS get's old. Try to start looking at things objectively.

Typical "cult of personality" answer. You dont care about the product just the name. ie. CULT OF PERSONALITY. I will take a forged CH over a billet any day of the week. Why dont you quote all of his post instead of doing a YouTube dissection of his post? You know he is totally correct.

What does "Living Colour" have to do with BCM handles?

Seriously though, you don't get it, blame kool-aid drinkers, go right ahead. Buy a GF and see for yourself. I ran standard handles, then a PRI with Combat Latch and I can feel a difference in support hand charging with the GF. My buddy trashed a forged handle with a PRI latch last summer on his precision rig. Sometimes people here are quick to jock-ride the latest and greatest manufacturers products, but this simply isn't the case with this item. If you still feel it is, you're as narrow minded as the jock-riders.

The color?

It isnt kool aid it is marketing shilled by this website. If BCM sold dog feces with the logo, half this board would buy it.

Posted: 5/22/2010 7:38:16 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ah, kool-aid sure is refreshing late in the afternoon. A year or two ago if it was not the PRI Gasbuster then you were using crap, banned from the cool kids table, and were going to blow your eyes out if you popped a primer, today it is BCM and the Gunfighter that has the flavor of the month award, and the blow your eyes out concern is suddenly gone.
Gotta love it.

The typical bullshit response often found here.

Two years ago the BCM handle wasn't around. Now it is and it's a great improvement over the previous offerings. All this "kool-aid" or "flavor of the month" BS get's old. Try to start looking at things objectively.

Typical "cult of personality" answer. You dont care about the product just the name. ie. CULT OF PERSONALITY. I will take a forged CH over a billet any day of the week. Why dont you quote all of his post instead of doing a YouTube dissection of his post? You know he is totally correct.

What does "Living Colour" have to do with BCM handles?

Seriously though, you don't get it, blame kool-aid drinkers, go right ahead. Buy a GF and see for yourself. I ran standard handles, then a PRI with Combat Latch and I can feel a difference in support hand charging with the GF. My buddy trashed a forged handle with a PRI latch last summer on his precision rig. Sometimes people here are quick to jock-ride the latest and greatest manufacturers products, but this simply isn't the case with this item. If you still feel it is, you're as narrow minded as the jock-riders.

The color?

It isnt kool aid it is marketing shilled by this website. If BCM sold dog feces with the logo, half this board would buy it.

I'm not sure of you've found the GD yet but it's where you belong. You have nothing of value to add to the tech foums. I see you are just the typical contrarian, The type hat likes to go agains the grain just for the sake of it. Most people who use the term "kool-aid" or "fan boy" have already lost the argument before even getting started. I will take it that you have ZERO personal expirience with this product and suggest you STFU as the proper course of action.

Posted: 5/22/2010 9:58:01 PM EDT

[#21]

New products tend to get the flavor of the month treatment simply because a large part of most new products is the fact that they are an improvement over what is already available. People like to have the latest and greatest so they move to the new product. If anything it helps to quickly vet the product and see if it lives up to the hype.

The standard charging handle has certain design weaknesses that may mean failure when used in ways taught by many current instructors. The Gunfighter addresses these weaknesses.

That doesn't mean that it is the perfect handle for everyone. Big Bore has a valid reason for preferring his GB but I doubt most of us with the Gunfighter handle are working up wildcat loads. We're training to aggressively manipulate the charging handle with our offhand and for that the Gunfighter works.

As for brand loyalty, I proudly support companies that turn out good products. I don't blindly follow anyone though and if the product doesn't fit my needs/wants I don't purchase it. All my AR's are equipped with the Gunfighter mod 4.

Posted: 5/23/2010 3:20:47 AM EDT

[#22]

I use a LMT tactical latch. Granted it is the only one I've used, no experience with the others, but i seem to like it alot. I'm a lefty and thought about using an ambi latch but the price was more than what I wanted to spend.

Posted: 5/23/2010 4:15:14 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I have both the PRI and several GFs. I have been using the GB on my primary partly because I'm used to it. I shoot mainly suppressed (SF Mini) and will do an A/B test wrt gas diversion next time I train.

ETA:

The gas buster is much more substantial than the GF. That's not to say it's better, it just looks and feels much more substantial. In addition the "T" on the GB is wider giving both right and lefties more to grab a hold of.

The PRI is designed to divert the gas encountered when using a can, and it works very well. The underhang off the back is there for a reason, but I've used and own both, and by no stretch of the imagination does it feel more substantial to me. I'm actually rather surprised to see that comment.

I appreciate your opinion but I have extensive experience shooting and building these weapons and yes, my GB feels more substantial than my GF4 "TO ME". I was given two GF4s last December to try out and frankly speaking, I have not had the urge to swap out my GB in my primary training weapon. I should because who knows, maybe I will like the GF4 better but the GB feels like a broken in pair of shoes

.

Posted: 5/23/2010 5:56:59 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
I use a LMT tactical latch. Granted it is the only one I've used, no experience with the others, but i seem to like it alot. I'm a lefty and thought about using an ambi latch but the price was more than what I wanted to spend.

The LMT tac latch was what I was running before the BCM GF. The LMT is a great CH. After running both of them back and forth for a while I decide the BCM edeged it out. Out of all the CH options avaliable the LMT is my second choice.

Posted: 5/23/2010 6:22:23 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Ah, kool-aid sure is refreshing late in the afternoon. A year or two ago if it was not the PRI Gasbuster then you were using crap, banned from the cool kids table, and were going to blow your eyes out if you popped a primer, today it is BCM and the Gunfighter that has the flavor of the month award, and the blow your eyes out concern is suddenly gone.
Gotta love it.

The typical bullshit response often found here.

Two years ago the BCM handle wasn't around. Now it is and it's a great improvement over the previous offerings. All this "kool-aid" or "flavor of the month" BS get's old. Try to start looking at things objectively.

.......or intelligently at least