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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Dimpled Barrel Options (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/24/2010 12:49:59 PM EDT

I know KAC did the dimpled Lilja barrels, but not sure if they are available by themselves. I'd like one, or at the very least, be able to buy a Noveske and have it dimpled. Does KAC sell them separately or does anyone know of a place that does this and a ball park figure on cost?

Posted: 1/24/2010 1:21:04 PM EDT

[#1]

Reading is fundamental....

Posted: 1/24/2010 1:38:09 PM EDT

[#2]

ADCO does it for like $5.00

Posted: 1/24/2010 2:05:51 PM EDT

[#3]

I'd guess he's talking about dimpling the whole barrel, not just for the gas block.

Posted: 1/24/2010 2:34:24 PM EDT

[#4]

He is talking about the 'golf ball' barrel dimpling (instead of fluting)

Posted: 1/24/2010 3:08:03 PM EDT

[#5]

We are talking about the full dimpling right?

Quoted:
ADCO does it for like $5.00

All my barrels would be done if that were the case.

Posted: 1/24/2010 3:10:22 PM EDT

[#6]

This thread is relevant to my interests.

Posted: 1/24/2010 3:57:29 PM EDT

[#7]

Did some one say barrel dimples?

I'm REALLY tempted to chuck the 12.5" Noveske Crusader I have into a
Haas 4 axis, but I don't want to ruin a $400 barrel

Posted: 1/24/2010 5:32:33 PM EDT

[#8]

I got a Boner!!!

Posted: 1/24/2010 7:23:31 PM EDT

[#9]

I know the owner of the rifle in a few of them pics..Did you do the dimpling for Neil? If so, care do a few for me?

Posted: 1/24/2010 7:34:03 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I know KAC did the dimpled Lilja barrels, but not sure if they are available by themselves. I'd like one, or at the very least, be able to buy a Noveske and have it dimpled. Does KAC sell them separately or does anyone know of a place that does this and a ball park figure on cost?

KAC never dimpled any Lilja barrels. KAC only dimples barrel on (some) of their complete weapons, and not very many of them.

There was an employee of KAC who would, as a side business, and with permission from KAC, dimple barrels for people. Thats where I got two of my Noveske barrels dimples (both pictured above) and where two other people I know gt their Lilja barrels dimpled (one of which is pictured above). That guy (Marvin) no longer works at KAC and I have lost touch with him. I don't know if he is still doing it for people or not.

Having said that, I have seen one other company try to do it, and after completing it, I specifically remember them saying they would never do it again. I didnt theink theirs came out as well anyway.

Posted: 1/25/2010 4:31:27 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

I know the owner of the rifle in a few of them pics..Did you do the dimpling for Neil? If so, care do a few for me?

I can't say it was me who did the dimpling. I have the resources to do it, but I'm afraid I just don't have the time to take on doing it for others.

I'm like ––><–– this close to dimpling one of my own barrels, I just have to sit down and write the CAM.

Posted: 1/25/2010 4:52:20 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I know KAC did the dimpled Lilja barrels, but not sure if they are available by themselves. I'd like one, or at the very least, be able to buy a Noveske and have it dimpled. Does KAC sell them separately or does anyone know of a place that does this and a ball park figure on cost?

KAC never dimpled any Lilja barrels. KAC only dimples barrel on (some) of their complete weapons, and not very many of them.

There was an employee of KAC who would, as a side business, and with permission from KAC, dimple barrels for people. Thats where I got two of my Noveske barrels dimples (both pictured above) and where two other people I know gt their Lilja barrels dimpled (one of which is pictured above). That guy (Marvin) no longer works at KAC and I have lost touch with him. I don't know if he is still doing it for people or not.

Having said that, I have seen one other company try to do it, and after completing it, I specifically remember them saying they would never do it again. I didnt theink theirs came out as well anyway.

Any word if you are going to get any of those Magpul edition SR-15's?

Posted: 1/25/2010 3:58:53 PM EDT

[#13]

If anyone can do it on a Noveske barrel I am in!!

Posted: 1/25/2010 4:30:19 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
ADCO does it for like $5.00

Sorry, but we are not currently, nor do we plan to offer this service.

I think what jcrowl meant was dimpling for gasblocks.

After thinking abou it, and dimpling a test barrel today. Yeah we'll do that.

Posted: 1/25/2010 4:41:21 PM EDT

[#15]

Doesn't MSTN dimple barrels? I thought I read a thread where they do if for around $250.

[ETA] Found it. Pics near the bottom of page 5 and 6. Price on page 7

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=421434&page=7

Posted: 1/25/2010 4:57:43 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Doesn't MSTN dimple barrels? I thought I read a thread where they do if for around $250.

[ETA] Found it. Pics near the bottom of page 5 and 6. Price on page 7

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=421434&page=7

I'm going with ADCO for $5.

Posted: 1/25/2010 8:04:54 PM EDT

[#17]

I would wager strongly that I had my barrels done by the same gentleman MSTN uses. Wes always gets the cool crap!

Posted: 1/25/2010 8:11:11 PM EDT

[#18]

In celebration of international bubble wrap day.

Posted: 1/25/2010 8:28:47 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
In celebration of international bubble wrap day.

This was not terribly helpful.

Posted: 1/28/2010 5:45:00 PM EDT

[#20]

ADCO Firearms is now offering barrel dimpling as seen on the KAC PDW barrel.

The cost is $115 for in front of the gas block, and $125 for under the handguard.

I'll get some better pics up tomorrow, but heres a preview.

You can order here ADCO Shop Services

In response to this thread. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=479740

I kmow the above pic kinda stinks, i'll get some full barrel shots tommorow.

Posted: 1/28/2010 5:57:03 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
ADCO Firearms is now offering barrel dimpling as seen on the KAC PDW barrel.

The cost is $115 for in front of the gas block, and $125 for under the handguard.

I'll get some better pics up tomorrow, but heres a preview. http://www.adcofirearms.com/detailpics/dimples.jpg

You can order here ADCO Shop Services

In response to this thread. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=479740

I kmow the above pic kinda stinks, i'll get some full barrel shots tommorow.

I may be sending you my back up Noveske so you can put it on a diet. Waiting to see the photos of the other barrels.

Posted: 1/28/2010 5:59:52 PM EDT

[#22]

Other than the look what is the appeal vs fluting

Posted: 1/28/2010 6:02:28 PM EDT

[#23]

What advantages, other than looking cool does dimpling offer?

Weight savings, increased cooling, and better rigidity and consistency in strength over fluting?

Posted: 1/28/2010 6:24:21 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
What advantages, other than looking cool does dimpling offer?

Weight savings, increased cooling, and better rigidity and consistency in strength over fluting?

Weight savings and increased cooling are the only ones I've heard of, though there may be more.

Posted: 1/28/2010 6:27:47 PM EDT

[#25]

My SPR is needing of some dimpling and a KG black finish. When I can figure out how to get $300 I'll send it your way.

Posted: 1/28/2010 6:39:12 PM EDT

[#26]

I just sent out my 16" Bushy M4 profile barrel to Adco to get chopped to 14.5" W/ Vortex, M4 cuts, & shaved FSB=$140. Well I may have to add this to my order now. I wonder how this would look on an M4 profile? I guess I would just get "front of gas block" done & they would have to skip over the M203 cut? any ideas? Think it would look wierd?

O crap first ever page ownage...Well if I do get my barrel dimmpled, I will post pics as soon as I get it back. They should recieve it on Fri, so I guess I will have it back by next Fridayish...

Posted: 1/28/2010 7:11:20 PM EDT

[#27]

My dimpled Noveske 16 stainless should be here shortly from MSTN, they out source the dimple work.

Posted: 1/28/2010 7:16:06 PM EDT

[#28]

Well I'm gettin it done, so I will post pics when I get it back next week

Posted: 1/28/2010 11:30:09 PM EDT

[#29]

That's awesome you guys are doing this service...I love the dimpled barrels! I do have one question though which is illustrated below...It looks like your spacing/structure is a bit different than the dimples I'm used to seeing. Would it be possible to have them dimpled more like the way on the left if desired, or are you only set up to do it in the pattern you have shown?

Posted: 1/29/2010 6:46:03 AM EDT

[#30]

What is the smallest diameter barrel is this an option for?

Posted: 1/29/2010 7:30:29 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
That's awesome you guys are doing this service...I love the dimpled barrels! I do have one question though which is illustrated below...It looks like your spacing/structure is a bit different than the dimples I'm used to seeing. Would it be possible to have them dimpled more like the way on the left if desired, or are you only set up to do it in the pattern you have shown?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/mikecleonard/Untitled2.jpg

This.

IMO it doesn't look as good when the dimples are in straight lines. They look much better when they are staggered.

Posted: 1/29/2010 7:45:15 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
That's awesome you guys are doing this service...I love the dimpled barrels! I do have one question though which is illustrated below...It looks like your spacing/structure is a bit different than the dimples I'm used to seeing. Would it be possible to have them dimpled more like the way on the left if desired, or are you only set up to do it in the pattern you have shown?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/mikecleonard/Untitled2.jpg

Excellent job on this comparison pic! If they are chucking the bbl up in a CNC mill, it doesn't seem like tightening up the pattern would be that difficult. It's basically the same pattern, just rotated 90deg and tightened up a bit.

Posted: 1/29/2010 8:27:33 AM EDT

[#33]

We are only doing it as shown. Sorry

Posted: 1/29/2010 8:44:35 AM EDT

[#34]

Hmmmmmmm

Time to fire up the Mill

Posted: 1/29/2010 1:16:51 PM EDT

[#35]

Glad to see another industry partner doing this. I haven't seen one first hand but the picture shown doesn't look quite as nice as some of the others I've seen. I'm not talking about the machine marks but the pattern. Since this is a visual plus only I probably wouldn't buy this pattern. Not that my opinion matters but it seems like some of the other posters are seeing the same thing.

Posted: 1/29/2010 1:50:03 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ADCO does it for like $5.00

Sorry, but we are not currently, nor do we plan to offer this service.

I think what jcrowl meant was dimpling for gasblocks.

After thinking abou it, and dimpling a test barrel today. Yeah we'll do that.

Not to rain on any parades, but there was a similar thread on here about a year ago. I think it Knight's Armament may have a patent on the barrel dimpling. Yes, I know that sounds silly. That's exactly what the thread was talking about. You might want to run this past your lawyer.

LINK

In Relevant Part:
United States Patent # 7,013,592
Olson , et al. March 21, 2006
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Guns with exterior surface configured barrels

Abstract
Gas-operated automatic and semi-automatic guns are improved by providing their barrels with unique exterior surface configurations to reduce the weight of their barrels while retaining the barrels' original stiffness and to cause the barrels to dissipate heat faster.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Inventors: Olson; Douglas D. (Vero Beach, FL), Knight, Jr.; C. Reed (Vero Beach, FL)
Assignee: Knight's Armament Company (Titusville, FL)

Appl. No.: 10/693,181
Filed: October 27, 2003

What is claimed is:

1. A gas-operated automatic or semi-automatic gun comprising a barrel having a breech section defined by a breech peripheral surface plus a muzzle section defined by a muzzle peripheral surface, said breech section having a longitudinal portion of said breech peripheral surface encircled with an array of concave depressions each defined by a depression opening, selected from circular openings and oblong openings, of predetermined area in said breech peripheral surface and of predetermined maximum depth, said longitudinal portion having a first peripheral surface area A1 before inclusion of said concave depressions and the combined surface areas of said concave depressions and the remaining surface area of said first peripheral surface area after inclusion of said concave depressions having a second peripheral surface area A2, and the ratio A2/A1 is between about 1.17 and 1.42.

Posted: 1/29/2010 1:55:04 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
ADCO does it for like $5.00

Sorry, but we are not currently, nor do we plan to offer this service.

I think what jcrowl meant was dimpling for gasblocks.

After thinking abou it, and dimpling a test barrel today. Yeah we'll do that.

Not to rain on any parades, but there was a similar thread on here about a year ago. I think it Knight's Armament may have a patent on the barrel dimpling. Yes, I know that sounds silly. That's exactly what the thread was talking about. You might want to run this past your lawyer.

LINK

In Relevant Part:
United States Patent # 7,013,592
Olson , et al. March 21, 2006
––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Guns with exterior surface configured barrels

Abstract
Gas-operated automatic and semi-automatic guns are improved by providing their barrels with unique exterior surface configurations to reduce the weight of their barrels while retaining the barrels' original stiffness and to cause the barrels to dissipate heat faster.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Inventors: Olson; Douglas D. (Vero Beach, FL), Knight, Jr.; C. Reed (Vero Beach, FL)
Assignee: Knight's Armament Company (Titusville, FL)

Appl. No.: 10/693,181
Filed: October 27, 2003

What is claimed is:

1. A gas-operated automatic or semi-automatic gun comprising a barrel having a breech section defined by a breech peripheral surface plus a muzzle section defined by a muzzle peripheral surface, said breech section having a longitudinal portion of said breech peripheral surface encircled with an array of concave depressions each defined by a depression opening, selected from circular openings and oblong openings, of predetermined area in said breech peripheral surface and of predetermined maximum depth, said longitudinal portion having a first peripheral surface area A1 before inclusion of said concave depressions and the combined surface areas of said concave depressions and the remaining surface area of said first peripheral surface area after inclusion of said concave depressions having a second peripheral surface area A2, and the ratio A2/A1 is between about 1.17 and 1.42.

Well, one way or another, my Noveske CQB is getting the dimple treatment. Where's me dremmil???

Posted: 1/29/2010 2:00:15 PM EDT

[#38]

how does this pattern compare to what DEZ Arms calls "Hole in One"

the pics on their site aren't very good
http://www.shop.dezarms.com/product.sc?productId=68&categoryId=13

Posted: 1/29/2010 5:57:40 PM EDT

[#39]

I don't know who DEZ is, or if it's the same guy, but there was a dealer at the SAR show in Phoenix in December selling dimpled barrels, and they were just plain fugly. The machining was very rough and it appeared the dimples were cut using a drill bit in a drill press rather than a ball mill in a mill or lathe. Lots of tool marks and the pattern was no where near symetrical.

Why dimpling instead of longitudinal fluting? I think that will boil down to a personal aesthetic choice mostly. However I would say that fluting of any variety has earned it's reputation based on its merits and of all the "ninja" stuff that gets done to the rifles displayed on this board, fluting has a better return on investment than many other modifications.

Posted: 1/30/2010 7:12:06 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
That's awesome you guys are doing this service...I love the dimpled barrels! I do have one question though which is illustrated below...It looks like your spacing/structure is a bit different than the dimples I'm used to seeing. Would it be possible to have them dimpled more like the way on the left if desired, or are you only set up to do it in the pattern you have shown?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/mikecleonard/Untitled2.jpg

+1 on this.

Seems like the pattern on the right is just flutes that aren't connected. The pattern on the left look like it removes more of the barrel thus more of the weight. If I were to get the pattern done on the right I would just get my barrel fluted.

ADCO, is there a difference in weight savings between the fluting and the dimpling?

Also any of you engineers, does the dimpling give more surface area than the fluting? probably negligible, but just curious.

Posted: 1/30/2010 9:49:53 AM EDT

[#41]

I can see the advantages of barrel dimpling in that it decreases the weight and increases surface area which should aid in cooling the barrel.

Also, considering the tight packing of the dimples (KAC dimpling, not ADCO dimpling), it will have a greater surface area than standard fluting. The surface area should be greater also because of the fact that a sphere (or half-sphere in this case) gives maximum surface area (as opposed to other shapes) per cross section.

But I do have a concern about the accuracy of the dimpled barrels. How does dimpling affect the harmonics? Is the barrel more rigid or less rigid? Due the to massive amount of machining-induced stress introduced to the barrel by dimpling, does the POI (point of impact) shift as the barrel heats up? Those manufactures or gunsmiths that do dimpling, do they stress relieve the barrel after the dimpling machining process?

Posted: 1/30/2010 11:19:12 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
I can see the advantages of barrel dimpling in that it decreases the weight and increases surface area which should aid in cooling the barrel.

Also, considering the tight packing of the dimples (KAC dimpling, not ADCO dimpling), it will have a greater surface area than standard fluting. The surface area should be greater also because of the fact that a sphere (or half-sphere in this case) gives maximum surface area (as opposed to other shapes) per cross section.

But I do have a concern about the accuracy of the dimpled barrels. How does dimpling affect the harmonics? Is the barrel more rigid or less rigid? Due the to massive amount of machining-induced stress introduced to the barrel by dimpling, does the POI (point of impact) shift as the barrel heats up? Those manufactures or gunsmiths that do dimpling, do they stress relieve the barrel after the dimpling machining process?

I would think ideally one would want the barrel dimpled before being rifled so as to avoid accuracy problems.

Posted: 1/30/2010 8:04:38 PM EDT

[#43]

I remember reading somewhere that dimpling offered advantages over fluting in terms of stress on the barrel when machining. I have no idea myself, but I do recall reading this as being one of the reasons KAC started doing it in the first place.

In all honesty, I got it on my barrels because I thought it was pretty fricken cool and was yet one more thing done to barrels on my KAC rifles to give them a little more KAC. I'll see if I cant get someone from KAC in here to answer some of these questions.

Posted: 1/30/2010 8:07:20 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Did some one say barrel dimples?

I have to know. What front sight block is that?

ETA: I'm guessing it's KAC, but I can't find it on their website. Am I blind?

Posted: 1/30/2010 8:22:17 PM EDT

[#45]

Yes, it is KAC. It has never really been offered on any of their commercial guns, but has been offered on their SR16 Mil and LE guns. The only place I know of to get one of them at the moment is through MSTN. He offeres to have them pinned on his custom uppers.

Posted: 2/1/2010 9:18:58 AM EDT

[#46]

We dimple our SR-25 EM Carbine barrels - and chrome line them, roughtly a .75 MOA gun. I've heated up a few and not noticed any adverse accuracy affects.

We have dimpled some SR-15 barrels but current these are not standard.

I will add more in a bit, I am bit busy and posting more as a placeholder.

Posted: 2/1/2010 4:18:35 PM EDT

[#47]

Tag

Posted: 2/2/2010 4:43:52 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
That's awesome you guys are doing this service...I love the dimpled barrels! I do have one question though which is illustrated below...It looks like your spacing/structure is a bit different than the dimples I'm used to seeing. Would it be possible to have them dimpled more like the way on the left if desired, or are you only set up to do it in the pattern you have shown?

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/mikecleonard/Untitled2.jpg

While looking at the two dimple patterns above, I realize that there may be structural differences between them, affecting longitudinal rigidity.

In ADCO's version, the rows are lined up so that there are uninterrupted segments of metal running longitudinally towards the muzzle.

In the SR47 version depicted in the photo above the dimples are arranged in a tightly-packed helical pattern that lacks an uninterrupted portion in any direction; other iterations of the KAC pattern are more loosely spaced, giving spirally arranged strips of non-dimpled metal.

Would the RKI's out there (Really Knowledgeable Individuals such as metallurgists, barrel makers, machinists, not posers), kindly weigh in on any structural differences between the two patterns vis a vis rigidity?

Regards,

Jorge

Posted: 2/3/2010 2:32:36 PM EDT

[#49]

I would like a before and after weight comparison. Im all about saving some weight where I can but how much am I spending per ounce? Thanks!

Posted: 2/3/2010 8:07:59 PM EDT

[#50]

I'll admit, some of you guys are talking way over my head... If a weight per dollar ratio is your bottom line, I think fluting or just getting a lighter barrel to start with will be more attractive to you than the dimples.

I have two dimpled barrels (both Noveske), done KAC style, and I'm sorry I don't have better data to share. Both of these barrels were pretty well used by the time I got them dimpled. One is 16 and the other 10.5". Both are quite accurate both before and after the dimples. I can certainly tell you I have not noticed a DECREASE in accuracy post-dimpling. I can tell you that I did notice a decrease in weight. Not substantial by any means, but noticable.

I would guess the KAC style of staggered bands from one end to the other reduces more weight than the other process which staggers lines from one end of the barrel to the other. Simply because it appears to remove more material. How much is anyones guess.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Dimpled Barrel Options (Page 1 of 2)

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