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Posted: 3/21/2015 1:58:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By viator:
Shoot a paper grapefruit? Don't you guys have hedge apples? Plus, they 'splode when you hit 'em. Reactive targets FTW.  How big are they? |
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Posted: 3/22/2015 2:24:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon:
How big are they? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By viator:
Shoot a paper grapefruit? Don't you guys have hedge apples? Plus, they 'splode when you hit 'em. Reactive targets FTW. How big are they? The ones I remember were of similar size or a bit smaller than a medium sized grapefruit. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 5:19:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Question for you Molon-
How do you perform you ladder testing for a new reloading recipe? |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 5:20:52 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EVR:
The ones I remember were of similar size or a bit smaller than a medium sized grapefruit. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EVR:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By viator:
Shoot a paper grapefruit? Don't you guys have hedge apples? Plus, they 'splode when you hit 'em. Reactive targets FTW. How big are they? The ones I remember were of similar size or a bit smaller than a medium sized grapefruit. Oh yeah, we've got those around here! I'll have to collect them this year... 
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Posted: 3/24/2015 6:12:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chrissig:
Shake up cans of cheap soda and use those. I hit like 11/12 of those on the first shot at 50 yds several months ago with an Eotech + 16" bull barrel from the seated position. Is the cross-legged sitting position considered offhand? 
Soda cans are so satisfying to shoot when they blow up.... UMmmmm...........NO. Offhand is standing on your two back legs. Seated is seated. Prone is prone. Offhand is standing on your two back legs. |
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Posted: 3/24/2015 6:32:22 PM EDT
[#6]
if you shoot paper fruit...you miss out on the joy of raining peels coming down up to 5 seconds later
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2015 6:43:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: artener]
[#7]
not me yet but a guy at the range shoots 'em that size (well within 11 3/4") at 200 yards offhand with M16/A4 type (a black rifle) n carry handle sight.
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:07:33 PM EDT
[#8]
A few things:
-This is pretty tough! For me anyways, I'm guilty of having shot my AR from prone, bench, rest/bipod A LOT. I shoot some steel targets at 75-100 off hand but they are bigger targets. I have only taken one carbine class to date (about 2 years ago). -I have A LOT of respect for those of you putting 10 shots inside of this target off hand at 50 yds -11 pages on this thread and maybe 4-5 pics of targets? Come on! Get out and give this a try. After doing this I know what I will be working on more at the range from now on. I only attempted this twice (50 yds, off hand with a gun that I know is very accurate with a ACOG) 
After this I promptly shot a 10 shot group from a bench (bipod/bag) to make me feel better...
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Posted: 3/25/2015 10:16:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EVR]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jinxy:
A few things: -This is pretty tough! For me anyways, I'm guilty of having shot my AR from prone, bench, rest/bipod A LOT. I shoot some steel targets at 75-100 off hand but they are bigger targets. I have only taken one carbine class to date (about 2 years ago). -I have A LOT of respect for those of you putting 10 shots inside of this target off hand at 50 yds -11 pages on this thread and maybe 4-5 pics of targets? Come on! Get out and give this a try. After doing this I know what I will be working on more at the range from now on. I only attempted this twice (50 yds, off hand with a gun that I know is very accurate with a ACOG)
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/C0191109-7A51-4B13-BBAE-3A9AF0B90426_zpsxa8cf3b4.jpg After this I promptly shot a 10 shot group from a bench (bipod/bag) to make me feel better...
http://i1035.photobucket.com/albums/a439/Jinxy81/B1DACA37-DFF6-4D53-8D8D-776F6E98670D_zpsyldmzzv2.jpg Don't hold your breath waiting for targets. You'll turn blue! But all the same, THANKS for posting!! 
You are a rare bird around here and that's a compliment! You might like this one, too. I had a little better luck getting folks to shoot it than Molon did w/ this one, but still it didn't take off like the benchrest Challenges. Most Americans just plain prefer to shoot off a bench. Since we are headed for better weather {yup, seems like most don't like to shoot in bad weather, either...} and if you are willing to shoot it I think we can get it resurrected. Lemme know! http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1744566_OFFICIAL_SHTF_Challenge__No_Props_No_Crutches___Where_are__the_FAL_AK_Garand_Guys_.html |
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Posted: 9/20/2015 10:36:28 AM EDT
[#10]
bump!
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Posted: 10/12/2015 5:15:14 PM EDT
[#11]
It won't win a contest , but it will make it home at night 
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Posted: 11/9/2015 4:50:33 PM EDT
[#12]
btt
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/9/2015 5:32:23 PM EDT
[#13]
Originally Posted By Molon:
“That's a nice group from the bench. Now let’s see you hit a grapefruit at 50 yards offhand.” bigbore’s sig-line Multiple open-source references report that typical grapefruits range in diameter from 10 to 15 cm, with the median being 12.5 cm (or approximately 5 inches.) Since the shooting ranges in my area do not allow the use of fresh fruit for targets, I needed to use a printed representation of the fruit in order to give the “Grapefruit Shoot” a try. As quickly as you can say “Google” I had a suitable graphic down-loaded. The diameter of the grapefruit pictured below is exactly 5 inches when printed from a .pdf file of the graphic. http://www.box.net/shared/static/ub7hya6t02.jpg Using my version of an A4 clone, topped with a Trijicon ACOG TA11, I fired 10-shot groups at the "grapefruits" from the off-hand position at 50 yards. I was able to keep all 10 rounds of the groups “in the pulp.” You can down-load the .pdf file of the grapefruit and give the "Grapefruit Shoot" a try for yourself. (click here for download) At a distance of 50 yards, fire 10 shots in a row on the grapefruit target from the standing, offhand position (no support, no slings, no shooting coats) using any AR-15 with any sights you want. 
Here are a few gratuitous pics of my A4 clone. http://www.box.net/shared/static/s06dylbbrq.jpg http://www.box.net/shared/static/p9rcbkhetf.jpg http://www.box.net/shared/static/gmfxb6uoor.jpg http://www.box.net/shared/static/krt8mjsygs.jpg Maybe it's just the contrast, but that has to be the dirtiest looking bullet holes I've ever seen. |
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Posted: 11/10/2015 5:33:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lazyengineer: Maybe it's just the contrast, but that has to be the dirtiest looking bullet holes I've ever seen. Must've been cuz them holler point boolits. No, that looks normal for a target shot with non-wadcutter bullets that's been laid on a flat surface to be photographed. |
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Posted: 1/10/2016 5:08:24 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
No, that looks normal for a target shot with non-wadcutter bullets that's been laid on a flat surface to be photographed. Yup. |
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Posted: 1/10/2016 5:12:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EVR]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon:
Yup. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony:
No, that looks normal for a target shot with non-wadcutter bullets that's been laid on a flat surface to be photographed. Yup. Molon, good to see you! We need you over here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1744566_.html |
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Posted: 1/24/2016 1:15:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stoner25mkiv:
UMmmmm...........NO. Offhand is standing on your two back legs. Seated is seated. Prone is prone. Offhand is standing on your two back legs. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stoner25mkiv:
Originally Posted By chrissig:
Shake up cans of cheap soda and use those. I hit like 11/12 of those on the first shot at 50 yds several months ago with an Eotech + 16" bull barrel from the seated position. Is the cross-legged sitting position considered offhand?
Soda cans are so satisfying to shoot when they blow up.... UMmmmm...........NO. Offhand is standing on your two back legs. Seated is seated. Prone is prone. Offhand is standing on your two back legs. This. .. |
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Posted: 2/27/2016 10:17:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bounce19712:
if you shoot paper fruit...you miss out on the joy of raining peels coming down up to 5 seconds later 
... |
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Posted: 3/20/2016 2:21:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PreachermanMATT:
http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q478/brosuperman/Mobile%20Uploads/EEF3054F-ACA4-4E4A-B643-232E24B753DF_zpsrz0tqplf.jpg http://i351.photobucket.com/albums/q478/brosuperman/Mobile%20Uploads/6916AA63-3D0D-40DE-A151-EDC92E80977C_zps7ta8bwvg.jpg It won't win a contest , but it will make it home at night What happened with the printing of your target? ... |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/20/2016 5:46:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ARShooter91]
[#20]
Not many participated in this over the years lol. A lot less than the MOA all day challenge. Does this mean that this is harder?
I'll try this in the next few days and post pics! See if a buddy wants to try it also.. Here is mine. The ten circled with marker are my first ten and then ten more. 
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/24/2016 6:52:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Here is my buddy's target. He did much better the first try. It was quite windy though in his defense(15-25mph) when we shot these.
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Posted: 4/9/2016 5:44:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ARShooter91:
Not many participated in this over the years lol. A lot less than the MOA all day challenge. Does this mean that this is harder?
I'll try this in the next few days and post pics! See if a buddy wants to try it also.. Here is mine. The ten circled with marker are my first ten and then ten more. <a href="http://s695.photobucket.com/user/JeffAr/media/20160323_210810.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv314/JeffAr/20160323_210810.jpg</a> You're off to a good start! ... |
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Posted: 4/10/2016 10:52:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ARShooter91:
Not many participated in this over the years lol. A lot less than the MOA all day challenge. Does this mean that this is harder? Prolly, but then I've been trying to get Molon to shoot the SHTF Challenge and we are still waiting!! ;) {Give it a whirl, Molon}. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1744566_Fudds_VS_Tacticool_Duds______Take_the_SHTF_Challenge_.html[url] |
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Posted: 5/14/2016 12:52:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SCW:
Question for you Molon- How do you perform you ladder testing for a new reloading recipe? The majority of the time I just go out and shoot 10-shot groups. ... |
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Posted: 8/24/2016 12:11:31 AM EDT
[#25]
.
 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
. |
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Posted: 7/6/2021 10:55:30 PM EDT
[#26]
hey!
bump |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 11:15:21 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon: The majority of the time I just go out and shoot 10-shot groups . . . ... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon: Originally Posted By SCW: Question for you Molon- How do you perform you ladder testing for a new reloading recipe? The majority of the time I just go out and shoot 10-shot groups . . . ... . . . and sometimes I do this . . .Molon's Accuracy Node Detection Technique ... |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 12:32:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EvilBert: I bet 8 out of 10 people on this fourm would miss with the first shot. Sometimes I think 8 out of 10 people on this forum don't even have an AR-15.  |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 12:40:33 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chrissig: Shake up cans of cheap soda and use those. I hit like 11/12 of those on the first shot at 50 yds several months ago with an Eotech + 16" bull barrel from the seated position. Is the cross-legged sitting position considered offhand? Soda cans are so satisfying to shoot when they blow up.... That's what I do with my grandson. Believe I started him at 8 and he just turned 12. Time flies. Splatter targets and normally a couple of cases of generic drinks in red cans; well shaken. That "feedback" really keeps him motivated with the fun factor. Usually most of the cans are wire-suspended from limbs, hanging from a line of rope, etc. Same training with 1911s. They don't really need shaking with an AR / 1911 but it has become a bit of a ritual. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 1:52:35 PM EDT
[#30]
I gotta try this with my FF railed Colt 6720 upper with SSA trigger.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 2:05:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By urbankaos04: I gotta try this with my FF railed Colt 6720 upper with SSA trigger. When you print the target, be sure to measure the first one. The grapefruit should have a diameter of 5". "Scaling" in Adobe should be set at "100%". .. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:48:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Molon: When you print the target, be sure to measure the first one. The grapefruit should have a diameter of 5". "Scaling" in Adobe should be set at "100%". .. Will do, Molon. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:27:54 PM EDT
[#33]
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CO, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2021 12:00:18 AM EDT
[#34]
As others have said, shooting sitting is not exactly shooting offhand. Shooting sitting I can usually get 80-90% hits on a 6" steel target at 100 yards. No way I can duplicate that, even at 50 yards, shooting offhand.
May try this just for fun in the next couple of days. But I doubt I'll post the results, particularly when I take 10 shots at the target and I go down range at can only find 7-8 bullet holes on the 8.5x11 piece of paper. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2021 8:46:09 AM EDT
[#35]
I’m going to have to give this a try!
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Posted: 7/8/2021 9:44:32 AM EDT
[#36]
Good on everyone practicing offhand.
Many of you are ready to start shooting high power matches and do quite well. Here is the 100yrd equivalent for offhand in a high power match (off hand is normally fired at 200 yards) NRA No. SR-I Reduction of the SR Target for use at 100 yards to simulate the 200-yard stages of the National Match Course. Aiming Black_(inches) X ring--------1.35 10 ring-------3.35 9 ring--------6.35 Rings in White (inches) 8 ring------9.35 7 ring-----12.35 If you are consistently hitting grapefruit 9 out of 10 you would be scoring in the 90s, which is very good. My last offhand was a 99-4x but that’s nothing. I’ve seen Brandon Green (AMU) shoot a 10x offhand. |
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Posted: 7/8/2021 10:48:40 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By airsix: Good on everyone practicing offhand. Many of you are ready to start shooting high power matches and do quite well. Here is the 100yrd equivalent for offhand in a high power match (off hand is normally fired at 200 yards) NRA No. SR-I Reduction of the SR Target for use at 100 yards to simulate the 200-yard stages of the National Match Course. Aiming Black_(inches) X ring--------1.35 10 ring-------3.35 9 ring--------6.35 Rings in White (inches) 8 ring------9.35 7 ring-----12.35 If you are consistently hitting grapefruit 9 out of 10 you would be scoring in the 90s, which is very good. My last offhand was a 99-4x but that's nothing. I've seen Brandon Green (AMU) shoot a 10x offhand. |
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Posted: 7/8/2021 1:16:11 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: I think there's a difference between Standing and Offhand. That is Standing. Yes. But… Standing has done more to improve my offhand than anything I’ve ever done. As you well know it trains your eye and your trigger finger to work together as an effective team more than any other approach. The year I started training high power in earnest I picked up my muzzle-loader in late September after competing/practicing heavily that year and was shocked at how well I could shoot it all of a sudden. 200 yard offhand shots on paper plates were not difficult and 100 yard snap shots on paper plates couldn’t miss. And they were fast. I found it to be the same with all rifles and all conditions. I was better on my feet than I had ever been before by a margin that blew my mind. Didn’t matter if it was CQB with a 8” AR or 200 yards with a smoke pole. Standing practice made me better at all of it. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 7/9/2021 9:36:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Speaking on NRA Highpower, just for fun decided to do a little offhand shooting today and did a semi-grapefruit challenge. Didn't print a grapefruit target, but used a NRA SR-1 target. As just pointed out, the black/bullseye is approximately 6.25" not 5".
In any event, shot 2 10 round strings at a lasered 52 yards in 15-25 mph winds, but most coming from between 11 and 2 o'clock. Used IMI XM 193 and my HK416 10.3" upper with an Eotech. No sling, shooting coat, etc. Put 6 in 10 ring, 2 in 9 ring and 2 in 8 ring. Extrapolating to the grapefruit target 7 would have hit the grapefruit, one would have missed my a hair and 2 would be pretty wide of the mark. Not really great shooting. If a high-power guy posted this target at 50 yards he'd be in tears. But I've always considered myself to be a pretty weak offhand shooter and this is better than I used to be. Need to keep practicing. Here's my attempt to post the target, but I'm pretty technologically challenged, so it may not work. /Users/anne/Desktop/Scan 3.jpeg |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 7/9/2021 9:37:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pippinone]
[#40]
Well, looks like my attempt to drag and drop the scanned target was a fail. If someone can give me a little help I will post results.
Edit - looked at FAQ about posting pics. Not sure I want to sign up for photo bucket, and pay a monthly fee just to post the occasional pic. here, but target really is as I described it. Ultimately, there has to be some level of trust as well. For example, I also shot 10 shots benched at a 3" shoot and see target from 50 yards. In theory I could post a pic. of this target, claim it was shot offhand, and impress everyone with my marksmanship. |
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Posted: 9/7/2021 11:16:18 PM EDT
[#41]
The Standing Off-Hand Position
Walk out into an open field with just you and your rifle. No slings, no bipods, no tripods, no shooting sticks. No trees, no rocks, no dead horses upon which to rest your rifle. Stand upright on your own two legs. Place the buttstock of your rifle in your shoulder pocket and support the rifle with nothing more than your own two upper extremities. This, is the standing off-hand position. This is not standing off-hand.  This is not standing off-hand.  This IS standing off-hand . . .  And this IS standing off-hand, and no, I don’t care what Jeff Cooper had to say about it.  .. |
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Posted: 11/27/2021 9:28:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pippinone: Edit - looked at FAQ about posting pics. Not sure I want to sign up for photo bucket, and pay a monthly fee just to post the occasional pic. h Free photo hosting site: https://imgbb.com/ ... |
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Posted: 11/27/2021 9:50:40 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 11/27/2021 9:56:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ACEB36TC: Five shot group at 1012. Orange "dot" is about the size of a grapefruit. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/192769/FIVE_SHOT_GROUP_jpg-2183684.JPG Was that done with an AR-15 from the standing off-hand position? ... |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 11/28/2021 12:38:27 AM EDT
[#45]
And obviously not offhand unless you are an Olympic Gold Medalist ... and even then.
And resuscitation of this post has kind of inspired me. May actually try to print out a couple of targets and start practicing. And just for fun, how about adding a wrinkle. Shoot one target at 50 with an AR, and another target at 25 with the pistol of your choice. Hell, maybe we could even add a third target for a shooting trifecta. How about Grapefruit Target at 400 yards using the benched rifle of your choice? |
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Posted: 11/28/2021 1:45:06 AM EDT
[#46]
I’m inspired too, I’ll have to try this. Looks fun.
We typically shoot at 6 targets from 6 different spots from between 40 and 20 yards. The targets are 4 circles on 11x17 paper so not very big, maybe 4-5”. The range is about 25 yards across so we throw 6 position markers down and run to each marker between 20 and 40 yds and take 3 off hand shots; each position shoots a specific target. One position we may drop to a knee, and one target we move while shooting, sometimes we drop to prone, we make it up each round. Rule is the shots have to be taken as soon as you shoulder though. It’s fun even though I’m not that great at it. The only time I ever shoot from a bench is if I’m checking a zero. It’s nice to have a range where you can mess around and challenge yourself. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2021 7:24:01 AM EDT
[#47]
Any sort of off hand shooting is a real test of your ability. I’m glad to see this thread keep going.
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Posted: 11/30/2021 8:27:26 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JJREA: Nice shooting and a neat target idea! I watched my ex's dad put 3 rounds into less than an inch at 100 offhand with irons once..with an old swiss mauser that was sporterized. I don't know if it was pure luck, skill, or both, but I really tried hard to stay on his good side. Now that I gots me a daughter I guess I'd better practice too.. Well, if you're not that good when you take your daughters courting boys shooting. Just rapid fire your AR jump around like a madman and just appear unstable in general. And say things like, "Man, I'd really like to find out what a guy would look like after I shot him with this."Finally,a guy I can agree with. |
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Posted: 11/30/2021 9:47:34 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EvilBert: I bet 8 out of 10 people on this fourm would miss with the first shot. Sometimes I think 8 out of 10 people on this forum don't even have an AR-15. Some replies remain ageless and likely true. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2021 8:59:49 PM EDT
[#50]
I also think too many guys shoot only at 10yds and in almost exclusively. I get that it’s realistic for home defense or if you’re a swat guy. But I still think being able to make shots off hand at 50-100yds is important.
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