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Posted: 5/6/2019 9:47:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Willmar]
[#1]
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Posted: 5/6/2019 9:49:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Willmar]
[#2]
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2019 9:57:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Any luck tracking down the manufacture of those new idf stocks?
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/21/2019 10:57:20 PM EDT
[#4]
I have emailed fab and cca and they said it is not a model they carry.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/1/2019 9:30:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Any certain way to tie the sling and paracord to the stock?
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2019 8:07:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ck2020:
Any certain way to tie the sling and paracord to the stock? |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2019 12:18:46 AM EDT
[#7]
The colt one like in the image above
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2019 1:08:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Hexxus]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ck2020:
Any luck tracking down the manufacture of those new idf stocks? |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2019 3:13:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hexxus: The FAB/Mako GLR-16? |
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Posted: 6/5/2019 3:46:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BrandonP: Sorry for late reply bro, been getting slammed at work. White light was an issued equipment thing. We weren't actually issued them, which is a shame. My first leave home I picked one up - oldschool Surefire G2 with a (then, it was the hottest shit around) Malkoff drop-in CREE led. SOP was to tape a foot powder lid to fit on the front so if it NDd it wouldn't give away your position (me on left...other guy was a Dutch volunteer...he's 6'4). https://i.imgur.com/0ZvsszW.jpg Tape on the ACOG dims out the reticle so it's more usable. Much bigger deal in bright desert sunlight and SOP for zeroing was to tape it completely so the reticle is sharper. Would love to get my hands on a donut of doom ACOG now...the IDF rangefinding reticle is more useful to me than the call-for-artillery lines which would have been useless to someone who was more of a liability trying to speak Hebrew over the radio. Currently I understand the IDF has moved to the tavor so this will be kinda dated (07-09), but rifle setups kind of evolved with the soldier. First, they'd get an M16 short during basic training, which was basically a sawed off 13-16" M16A1 with no optic. At some point prior to advanced training, they'd get a Meprolight 21. Guys complained about these things constantly...the reticle would wash out because of sand and dust. It also didn't help that the reticle was the same color as most of the background especially around the training environments. You had to wash the hell out of them to get them to shine...then again a lot of M21s were literally missing part of the metal protective housing and still ran and held zero so take that for what you will. At the tail end of basic, after M16 week (a week of shooting a couple thousand rounds through an M16 short), you'd receive your "pakal." Shitbirds got something like "pakal mayim" (water) or "pakal alunkah" (stretcher). If you were a big boy, you'd get the FN MAG. If you were fast and strong, you'd get the Negev LMG. If you could shoot worth fuckall (which excluded Israelis in a hilarious ratio - nearly all of us were American) you were given "calah," or designated marksman. If I remember correctly, the final test was 10 rounds, 25 meters, at a zeroing target, prone position with 10 jumping jacks in between...so you did your jumping jacks, you got into prone, you fired, then you got up and did your jumping jacks, etc., and they had to group under a certain criterion. This was followed by a fitness test that involved running up and down hills in kit, and an obstacle course. We were issued initially M4s ("flat tops") with no BUIS, bipods, and Litton Akilah scopes (4x gen 3 night vision rifle scopes) on ARMS mounts and ACOGs, also on ARMS mounts. These were interchangeable and we assumed they would hold zero. Later in my deployment we traded the Akilah for much smaller "Lior" 3x NV rifle scopes which were nice to carry but not as good for their intended role. Let me just say that cleaning practices were fucking abysmal. Once every couple days we'd dunk the rifles in "solar" which I understand to be gasoline, then wipe them down with newspaper. Other than that, it was "shemen" (fat, or oil) on the BCG. During inspections, we'd ram a sectional steel cleaning rod down the bore to "clean" the barrel...literally one patch for an entire squad. Bore brushes didn't exist. We still had no problem hitting head-sized targets at 300m with the ACOG and using the 4x or 3x NV riflescopes (combat-ish conditions) but I wouldn't want to take these rifles to a bench rest competition. In addition to that light, I brought a boresnake back with me from home for obvious reasons...that's still the extent of cleaning I do today on ARs - bore snake it a few times with solvent, that's it. Seemed to work fine for working guns. Back to your question and I apologize for the wall of text, stuff in the IDF wasn't really issued outside of optics and bipods. Guys got it from friends, relatives, knowing a guy who knew a guy, and bartering or stealing shit from the neshkiah (arms guy). Big broom handle vertical foregrips were common. Surefire G2s found their way onto soldiers' rifles lord knows how. Some of us brought stuff from abroad but that practice was ridiculed by Israelis because "you shouldn't spend money for the army" - they have (or at least had) a bias against spending personal funds on kit. Regarding the "why it works" portion, generally night vision gear was in short supply so there's no reason to issue lasers to everybody. Since most guys don't have NVGs, and don't need lasers, there's no reason to issue rails. This means that most of the rifles are very basic and light, and generally used optics that don't require batteries for logistical reasons. These logistics problems are a big deal - one of us...maybe me...was involved in an incident that could easily have been avoided by sourcing 2 AA batteries for night vision...but ended up resulting in some poor fucking cow getting sprayed with about 40 rounds of 7.62x51 out of an FN MAG at about 50 meters. The setups you tend to see aren't really the best thing for the job...they're really a product of the fact lots of people need rifles, and nice gear costs money. I've taken a liking to these types of lightweight minimalist setups that omit rails for integrated optics (like the MARS sights that integrate IR laser and red dot) but they're a lot less durable. For example, we were issued Harris bipods screwed into the handguards...managed to pop that sucker off several times while going prone but only broke one. We (Americans) tend to over-build everything and the cost is weight and money...they tend to push the bare minimum to get the job done and it ends up being lighter, streamlined and cheap, but less durable. THANK YOU for the post! 
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2019 8:24:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kvjavs:
Not even close |
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Posted: 6/5/2019 1:09:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Stukas87]
[#12]
@BrandonP
How does the IDF handle issuing ammo with a mix of M16A1s it seems and Modern M4s since M16A1 barrels cant handle M855 green tip? Also what kid of round counts were you shooting? , Looks like most carbines are over cleaned with with all phosphate coating scraped off barrels. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2019 1:25:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Kvjavs]
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hexxus: Show me which one you're referring to, I saw a few. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hexxus: Show me which one you're referring to, I saw a few.  Attached FileOriginally Posted By Stukas87:@BranonP How does the IDF handle issuing ammo with a mix of M16A1s it seems and Modern M4s since M16A1 barrels cant handle M855 green tip? Also what kid of round counts were you shooting? , Looks like most carbines are over cleaned with with all phosphate coating scraped off barrels. |
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Posted: 6/5/2019 3:24:34 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stukas87:
@BranonP How does the IDF handle issuing ammo with a mix of M16A1s it seems and Modern M4s since M16A1 barrels cant handle M855 green tip? Also what kid of round counts were you shooting? , Looks like most carbines are over cleaned with with all phosphate coating scraped off barrels. 
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Posted: 6/5/2019 3:26:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hexxus:
Show me which one you're referring to, I saw a few. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hexxus:
Originally Posted By Kvjavs:
Not even close  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 6/5/2019 4:25:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Stukas87]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kvjavs:
Sure. This is the mystery stock that nobody can seem to figure out who makes it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/68624/7A464523-CEBA-44FC-A3E6-3DE196B6A23C-602753.JPG I believe IDF uses M193 for most of their rifles/carbines, and 855 or heavier bullets for sharpshooter qualified soldiers with M4s and A2s. Those with the A1 are probably still using M193 as they are more than likely not front-line and just support troops. or are most A1 pics old? The U.S Army at times has trouble keeping up so how does a country like Israel which apparently cant afford lights for rifles and batteries for optics and such figure out who gets the correct ammo? Don't forget every combat unit has support troops, ammo (in the U.S. at least) is ordered by unit not by job of individual soldiers . |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2019 4:32:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Hexxus]
[#17]
I texted a guy named Yoshe who is in the IDF and who I train with, and the only thing he said he knew was that it was maybe a CAA product, but that I might have luck checking here;
Isayeret So if anyone wants to send them $14.99 to find out, be my guest. Maybe even check their FB page or message them; Isayeret FB Page |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2019 8:57:23 PM EDT
[#18]
The fact of them being in so many of the pictures makes me think their current production stocks.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/5/2019 9:00:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ck2020:
The fact of them being in so many of the pictures makes me think their current production stocks. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/6/2019 9:48:48 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kvjavs: I believe IDF uses M193 for most of their rifles/carbines, and 855 or heavier bk9ullets for sharpshooter qualified soldiers with M4s and A2s. Those with the A1 are probably still using M193 as they are more than likely not front-line and just support troops. M193 was issued by default along with 30 rounds of tracers, which were kept in their own separate magazine. We received fresh m855 during the sharpshooter course and periodically during training to replenish our issued supply. A lot of the time, if it wasn't available we would either shoot it and replace with m193, or set it aside and blast m193 instead. This was not really monitored closely and I probably only carried one mag of m855 to make my leadership happy with the rest being m193 (because m855 is trash). During training you would fire maybe 3k rounds in total, with 1k of that during m16 week and another 1k or so when you got your pakal (kit). Some guys obviously shot more. I could be grossly underestimating since its been a decade. Deep cleaning consisted of taking off the optic (usually), dunking in solvent (they called it solar...I suspect it was gasoline) then wiping down the parts and oiling. Sectional cleaning rods were used to clean the bore and this was done on a very lax regimen. Spent a lot of time on the upper and bcg though. Despite comparatively abysmal barrel maintenance the rifles still shot very well - no problem hitting head and quarter shoulder sized targets at 300m. |
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Posted: 6/6/2019 2:32:26 PM EDT
[#21]
Thanks for the info
Why do you say M855 trash? It is well documented it shoots tighter than M193. |
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Posted: 6/6/2019 3:29:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stukas87:
Thanks for the info Why do you say M855 trash? It is well documented it shoots tighter than M193. |
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Posted: 6/6/2019 4:52:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mech4matsnova: There are a bunch of 1/12 bbls still in use there M855 wont fly straight out of 1/12s ... IDF is hurting |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/7/2019 9:33:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mech4matsnova: There are a bunch of 1/12 bbls still in use there |
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Posted: 6/8/2019 4:02:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Did/does the IDF use any A2 uppers?
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/8/2019 10:56:50 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mauritius:
Did/does the IDF use any A2 uppers? Decided to re-IDF this rifle in preparation for a new build. It got my old light (that Malkoff-equipped G2) and a bunch of other peripherals. All parts were used on my issued M4 except the optic (but it is an IDF issued optic) and the rifle itself. 
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Posted: 6/9/2019 12:59:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mauritius:
Did/does the IDF use any A2 uppers? |
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Posted: 6/9/2019 12:20:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mech4matsnova]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mauritius:
Did/does the IDF use any A2 uppers? Magav with A2s(mostly XM4 type but some 20" A2s can be seen). Google Israeli Border Police for more 
 @BrandonP Did the Army incorporate any training or defense planning with the Magav(as force integration in case of large scale invasion)? If you are unable to comment I understand. Thanks. |
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Posted: 6/9/2019 1:13:46 PM EDT
[#29]
The way they wear their berets is atrocious.
Were weapon slings required? I can see where they'd be handy hanging around on guard duty. |
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Posted: 6/9/2019 1:16:55 PM EDT
[#30]
These are awesome builds.
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Posted: 6/9/2019 6:58:09 PM EDT
[#31]
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IA, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2019 8:27:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Had roughly 75% of the spare parts to put together another carbine. Couldn’t resist the recent sales so now I have my KISS gun. I don’t know how primary arms does it, but I placed an order on Saturday at 11:00 am and it was in my mailbox when I got home Monday evening. Probably going to add a proctor sling and ponder some light options |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2019 12:17:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BrandonP]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mech4matsnova:
@BrandonP Did the Army incorporate any training or defense planning with the Magav(as force integration in case of large scale invasion)? If you are unable to comment I understand. Thanks. Importantly, the difference between 05 (magav) and 07 rifleman courses (army standard) was the additional 4 months of advanced training, primarily in terms of large unit maneuvers, explosives (bangalores, but also projectiles like LAWs, 40mm), crew served weapons, vehicle operations, and field craft. There are probably contingency plans at the operations level but that was not relayed to us at all. After completing the first four months of tironut and qualifying at 05, regular army gets assigned to internal peacekeeping operations similar to Magav mainly to plug holes but we rarely operated in the same areas at the same time, with the exception of trouble spots in the west bank. They tend to recruit a lot of Russians and Ethiopians...people who had a rough upbringing. The Russians especially know how to swing a baton. I met a guy at michve who was a Russian immigrant, he had a pretty rough childhood and had the telephone cuts on his face to prove it. Tough group of guys. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2019 12:27:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lew:
The way they wear their berets is atrocious.
Were weapon slings required? I can see where they'd be handy hanging around on guard duty. Yeah the beret thing is true. They're also incredibly small so they just sit on top of your head and tend to fall off constantly. Useless piece of shit in the desert tbh...mainly just provides a means to see who is in what unit when you're walking around a train station. |
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Posted: 6/10/2019 12:44:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Solo_]
[#35]
Adding these two girls here, they asked for it (many Colt parts including barrels, one upper receiver, vintage and authentic pistol grips, authentic 6 hole hand guards etc.)
Lower A2 currently in .22LR conversion configuration per kids learning how to shoot 
Colt 733's Clones by SoloDallas, on Flickr |
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Posted: 6/10/2019 11:15:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BrandonP: Absolutely. You were issued a sling with your rifle, and were often given additional slings as morale items from your unit. These weren't as robust. I cannibalized issued slings for their hardware and installed that on my unit slings. Yeah the beret thing is true. They're also incredibly small so they just sit on top of your head and tend to fall off constantly. Useless piece of shit in the desert tbh...mainly just provides a means to see who is in what unit when you're walking around a train station. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 6/11/2019 2:27:42 AM EDT
[#37]
I recently got this former police dep Colt 6520 and was at first thinking of doing basically an idf clone, but seeing as I basically have 3 clone rifles already I figured it would be cooler to make a "modernized " simple A2 carbine. I really would like to put another pencil barrel on it, albeit a mid length gas one ala faxon. Would my fsp work on that? Any reccomendations?
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Posted: 6/11/2019 10:04:58 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By corruptgarage:
I recently got this former police dep Colt 6520 and was at first thinking of doing basically an idf clone, but seeing as I basically have 3 clone rifles already I figured it would be cooler to make a "modernized " simple A2 carbine. I really would like to put another pencil barrel on it, albeit a mid length gas one ala faxon. Would my fsp work on that? Any reccomendations? https://i.imgur.com/6oBdbU6l.jpg https://i.imgur.com/q3gpPLAl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/fTLaxiKl.jpg https://i.imgur.com/PefqVqMl.jpg PA State Police inventory |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2019 1:49:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Peg-Leg-Pete]
[#39]
Israel Defense Force ACOG? TA31i has Hebrew writing and IDF reticle. I stumbled across one of these acogs and wanted to know if anyone has seen one before. I cant find any information on these. No this is not a fake acog. It has Hebrew writing on the side and the top of the acog. If you look at the bottom of the reticle it says TA31i which is not listed on trijicons website and it has a reticle that is not listed as a trijicon reticle. I found one picture online of the same scope on an IDF M4 rifle. I'm assuming these are israel contract scopes but i have no idea how i stumbled across one on our civilian market. Do I have a unicorn on my hands? This is the other side of the scope. No JN8:12. Also it has all the screws, the scopes I got are in very good condition with only some light scratches. This one photo is the only other photo I could find on these. That is a real IDF M16 as per reddit. I also searched the internet and found a PDF of a manual/parts list for these sights. They have a TA01 listed and the TA31i which is what this is. It is hard to understand the manual because it is in Hebrew but these are real and I have a 34 page manual/parts catalog to go with it.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 6/14/2019 10:53:49 PM EDT
[#40]
Where did you find This Hebrew scope
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2019 2:40:03 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ck2020:
Where did you find This Hebrew scope |
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Posted: 6/15/2019 4:29:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Stukas87:
Thanks for the info Why do you say M855 trash? It is well documented it shoots tighter than M193. I'd take M193 every day and every way. The slower speed of the heavier M855 can cause a lack of fragmentation out of shorter barrels (non-20") and fragmentation is key to effective stopping with the 5.56 round. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/15/2019 7:35:28 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 6/15/2019 7:43:19 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83:
https://i.postimg.cc/CL68Kjy9/IMG-20190615-192902.jpg |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2019 12:48:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SoloDallas:
You can show me any of the newer builds; all space age and what not; then you show me this one, and that's the one I'd pick, over and over, again and again. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2019 9:54:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HaveBlue83]
[#46]
I always liked the 727 and GUU-5/p, M4 barrelled looking carbines. Its on my SBR lower and 11.5" is overall the most handy, but 14.5" looks so classic. I like shooting Irons too, feels like home.
the sling is a US general sling strap BTW, if anyone wants a CHEAP solution! 
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Posted: 6/16/2019 10:33:51 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HaveBlue83:
I always liked the 727 and GUU-5/p, M4 barrelled looking carbines. Its on my SBR lower and 11.5" is overall the most handy, but 14.5" looks so classic. I like shooting Irons too, feels like home. the sling is a US general sling strap BTW, if anyone wants a CHEAP solution! https://i.postimg.cc/mDx4HrPs/IMG-20190616-094533.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/BZ2S2Rf0/IMG-20190616-095223.jpg Instructions are out there on making up such a Son Tay style sling; made a few myself & have one on my UK made Bremmer M4 .22lr |
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Posted: 6/16/2019 12:53:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mooninite]
[#48]
Ordered one of the Brownells CAR stocks for the 6720. Need to get a set of skinny hand guards now.
 Attached File |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/16/2019 2:40:30 PM EDT
[#49]
done and done! its quiet now |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 6/17/2019 12:26:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BrandonP]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Peg-Leg-Pete:
Israel Defense Force ACOG? TA31i has Hebrew writing and IDF reticle. I stumbled across one of these acogs and wanted to know if anyone has seen one before. I cant find any information on these. No this is not a fake acog. It has Hebrew writing on the side and the top of the acog. If you look at the bottom of the reticle it says TA31i which is not listed on trijicons website and it has a reticle that is not listed as a trijicon reticle. I found one picture online of the same scope on an IDF M4 rifle. I'm assuming these are israel contract scopes but i have no idea how i stumbled across one on our civilian market. Do I have a unicorn on my hands? This is the other side of the scope. No JN8:12. Also it has all the screws, the scopes I got are in very good condition with only some light scratches. This one photo is the only other photo I could find on these. That is a real IDF M16 as per reddit. I also searched the internet and found a PDF of a manual/parts list for these sights. They have a TA01 listed and the TA31i which is what this is. It is hard to understand the manual because it is in Hebrew but these are real and I have a 34 page manual/parts catalog to go with it. https://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg563/brokenbstring/s-l1602_zpsvd805gdw.jpg https://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg563/brokenbstring/s-l1601_zpsd6tjmehn.jpg https://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg563/brokenbstring/s-l1603_zpsyuc9lyzg.jpg https://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg563/brokenbstring/s-l1604_zpsre4o74oc.jpg https://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg563/brokenbstring/Screen%20Shot%202019-06-15%20at%202.51.03%20AM_zpsqs5xwrqn.png https://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg563/brokenbstring/pkoc000bidm01_zpsvyajp3yi.jpg The stadia are for rangefinding. Kinda forget the holds to be honest but I'm sure the information is out there. Want to sell one? The nostalgia is real. :) If you want a legit IDF zero... 25m = 4 cm low 100m = 7 cm high 200m = 10 cm high 250m = 0 300 = 20 cm low On overwatch in the West Bank using the same reticle. Unfortunately the camera is period-correct as well. 
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