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Posted: 4/11/2006 11:18:07 AM EDT
Im saving for an AR and see these olympic and DPMS rilfes for sale all over the place for 6 or 700 dollars. Are these just cheap POS? Should I save in order to get a bushy or a RR. Whats the deal with these budget AR rifles?

thanks in advance
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:23:19 AM EDT
If you want a reliable running rifle, you're best bet is to save your money and get one of the quality brands with a chrome lined chamber and bore.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:26:50 AM EDT
If I only had $600-700 to spend and I had to get an AR today, I wouldn't hesitate to buy either although I would choose the DPMS over the Olympic if I had the choice. Just like buying a Holosight when you do not have the extra $100 to spend on an E0tech. They will get the job done.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:31:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 11:34:28 AM EDT by BSheppard]

Originally Posted By Forest:
If you want a reliable running rifle, you're best bet is to save your money and get one of the quality brands with a chrome lined chamber and bore.



+1 you can get a RRA for about $750.00 from Eaglefirearms. Clyde Armory has Colt 6920 for $1199.00. If you like Bushnaster, Buds gunshop has them for about $800.00. One of those would be a keeper. Also check CMMG for a great AR. They are better than most and start about $800.00. My next will be from CMMG.

Edit to add: If you must pick from Oly or DPMS, the DPMS with chrome lined bore and chamber is the way to go.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 11:38:17 AM EDT
I have an Oly built from a kit, a DPMS parts gun with contributions from other manusfactures and a colt 100% original and they all serve me well. I would rate none as a POS! The Oly got me interested and now I'm working on a 6.8 SPC, my second. I think the kit was a good place to start, but it is a beginning and a place to learn how it all goes together. It won't be your last AR. I'm sure there are very low quality parts and guns out there, but I don't think you will find them from the companies you mentioned or most others that you read about on the forum.

ODG
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 1:11:25 PM EDT
If I was to buy my first AR again, I'd probably do it like this:

1. Get this upper (Complete Upper 16" w/ARMS #40 Rear Sight $468 ) from G&R:

2. Buy a complete lower like this for $225:


Connect the two together and you'll have yourself a really nice rifle. My friendly FFL charges me $20 to do a transfer. and I doubt that shipping on both items would be more than $30. So your grand total could be $743.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 4:49:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 4:50:45 PM EDT by boltcatch]
If I only had $700, I'd buy a AKM clone, probably from Vector, and spend the remainder on mags and a case of 7.62x39. AR-15's are not a 'budget' rifle. I firmly believe that people who want a serious weapon are better off not buying a cheap AR-15.

IMHO it's also pretty silly when someone who "can't afford a more expensive AR", chrome lining, etc., ends up with 2 or 3 cheap rifles each with 3 pounds of generic tactical crap, cheap lasers, and $30 chinese red dots on them.

Oly and DPMS aren't crap, really, but they just don't seem to have the track record of the other AR makers, and there are better deals out there. Also, for your first AR, at least get a factory complete lower and upper, don't build your own yet.

Your best bet for a nice but cost effective setup is pretty much what Salmonaxe said, CMT/Stag makes top quality stuff.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:39:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:55:52 PM EDT
Boltcatch speaks much truth and wisdom. Heed his words.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:07:15 PM EDT
i bought an olympic about 4 months ago, plinker model (16 inch, A1 sights), for 499 plus 15 dollar transfer fee, put a 40 dollar collapsable stock on it and a tasco scope, total price, about 575 bucks. it is quality, and accurate. i like it as much as my bushmaster XM15E2S HBAR, and almost as much as my FN/DPMS parts rifle. they are all super accurate, reliable, and fun. bushy=850, FN/DPMS=625, oly=575. it is a great buy for 575 and i'm not ashamed of it. i had an early ('76) colt sp1 collapsable, the only thing that impressed me about it was the name. paid 480 for it new in '76, sold it in '99 for 1200. p.s., i ordered the olympic straight from them through my FFL dealer.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 6:56:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/11/2006 6:57:11 PM EDT by Rabbit9]
If I was trying to purchase an inexpensive AR-15,

I'd purchase this kit...
www.model1sales.com/item-detail.cfm?ID=KCE160CL&storeid=1&image=car16pre.gif
for $470,

and this lower...
www.title2.com/Stagarms.html
for $99 delivered,

and then spend about thirty minutes of my time building a solid gun for about $650 out of pocket including shipping and dealer fees.
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:26:47 PM EDT
to save $$$$s: build it

fastest way is to get a kit from JTD or DT in the industry forum and a stripped lower for ~$100

+1 on CL bbl/bore and 5.56 chambering; rest can be the budget options....
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 7:38:23 PM EDT
get a lower with tigger and stock and a upper for your first . or kit and lower
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 8:55:55 PM EDT
I've owned Colt, Bushies and Olympic Arms over the years...the Oly's have been great, accurate and reliable. The only one I had MANY problems with was the Bushy. Oly AR's get a bad rap...they are good guns...

Michael
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 12:03:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tacman22:
Im saving for an AR and see these olympic and DPMS rilfes for sale all over the place for 6 or 700 dollars. Are these just cheap POS? Should I save in order to get a bushy or a RR. Whats the deal with these budget AR rifles?

thanks in advance



Some people are snobs will tell you that spending $1200 is the only way to get a reliable AR15. This is BS.

I have an Oly that never did anything but go bang. I drag my DPMS M4 to as many carbine classes that I can afford just to prove a point. It has never given me any issues in 5000 rounds, moly barrel and all.

So dont believe the hype. A good AR15 can be had in the $700 range. Also consider Sabre Defense, Cav Arms, and STAG for high quality AR's in the 670 - 750 range depending on where you shop
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:54:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 3:57:24 AM EDT by Another-Bill]
If I had only $700 to spend, I'd buy a used Bushy in great condition rather than a new questionable 2nd teir make. If nothing else, buy a Bushy lower new and pick up a used upper from the EE. As soon as you shoot it, it will be used any way.

BC

editied to add; Your resale value will be most protected as the initial depreaciation will have already taken place. No so with a used "budget" brand.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:57:45 AM EDT
OLY and DPMS are ok. I have owned both. They both worked and were accurate. Have a parts gun the is a Stag upper and an OLY lower. I also own a Colt. If your on a budget there is nothing wrong with building it or picking up and OLY or DPMS. It will be the 1st of many to follow.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:45:56 AM EDT
+1 for used BUSHY. That's what I did!
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 8:47:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:
Boltcatch speaks much truth and wisdom. Heed his words.



A BIG +1
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:13:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By boltcatch:
If I only had $700, I'd buy a AKM clone, probably from Vector, and spend the remainder on mags and a case of 7.62x39. AR-15's are not a 'budget' rifle. I firmly believe that people who want a serious weapon are better off not buying a cheap AR-15.

IMHO it's also pretty silly when someone who "can't afford a more expensive AR", chrome lining, etc., ends up with 2 or 3 cheap rifles each with 3 pounds of generic tactical crap, cheap lasers, and $30 chinese red dots on them.

Oly and DPMS aren't crap, really, but they just don't seem to have the track record of the other AR makers, and there are better deals out there. Also, for your first AR, at least get a factory complete lower and upper, don't build your own yet.

Your best bet for a nice but cost effective setup is pretty much what Salmonaxe said, CMT/Stag makes top quality stuff.



I would completel disagree with you.

$495 shipped from Teknic, Stag Arms flat top M4 pupper with arms #40A2 sight
$225 shipped, complete Stag arms lower with M4 stock

$720 buys you a very high quality AR which is better then any AK any day.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 9:14:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By tacman22:
Im saving for an AR and see these olympic and DPMS rilfes for sale all over the place for 6 or 700 dollars. Are these just cheap POS? Should I save in order to get a bushy or a RR. Whats the deal with these budget AR rifles?

thanks in advance



Some people are snobs will tell you that spending $1200 is the only way to get a reliable AR15. This is BS.

I have an Oly that never did anything but go bang. I drag my DPMS M4 to as many carbine classes that I can afford just to prove a point. It has never given me any issues in 5000 rounds, moly barrel and all.

So dont believe the hype. A good AR15 can be had in the $700 range. Also consider Sabre Defense, Cav Arms, and STAG for high quality AR's in the 670 - 750 range depending on where you shop



Where are you seeing complete Sabre rifle for those prices?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:19:40 AM EDT
I bought the Model 1 Sales kit AR2 for $435 and went to my friendly gun store and picked up a DPMS lower. I got the assembly instruction for the lower off this site and put it together in about two hours including reading the instruction, getting out my tools, assembly and putting everything back up. If you are half-way mechanically inclined you can put the lower together, and it really doesn't require any special tools if you are careful, and deliberate. The rifle isn't fancy, but it is simple and it shoots well. I had it out at our lease last weekend and it shot very well. No jams, and the accuracy was significantly greater than I expected out of an automatic rifle (this is my first AR).
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 10:52:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By boltcatch:
If I only had $700, I'd buy a AKM clone, probably from Vector, and spend the remainder on mags and a case of 7.62x39. AR-15's are not a 'budget' rifle. I firmly believe that people who want a serious weapon are better off not buying a cheap AR-15..



How is a $700 AK a budget rifle? Why would you recommend an AK in the AR forum when the gentleman is asking about AR's?
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 11:04:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By boltcatch:
... Oly and DPMS aren't crap, really, but they just don't seem to have the track record of the other AR makers, and there are better deals out there. Also, for your first AR, at least get a factory complete lower and upper, don't build your own yet...



+1

I own & have owned good, reliable DPMS and Oly rifles and wouldn't hesitate to buy either today if I didn't have an AR & my budget were limited, but neither one would be my first choice these days. YMMV.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:41:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 2:43:38 PM EDT by boltcatch]

Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:

Originally Posted By boltcatch:
If I only had $700, I'd buy a AKM clone, probably from Vector, and spend the remainder on mags and a case of 7.62x39. AR-15's are not a 'budget' rifle. I firmly believe that people who want a serious weapon are better off not buying a cheap AR-15..



How is a $700 AK a budget rifle? Why would you recommend an AK in the AR forum when the gentleman is asking about AR's?



I didn't say a $700 AK was a budget rifle, I said $700 total worth of AK and a pile AK stuff was more bang for your buck than a $700 AR from DPMS or Oly. He asked about AR's, and we did talk about AR's - I just added an extra 2 cents.

A few of you guys missed my point -- it takes a certain amount of money to get any particular rifle along with good mags and other things you need (broken shell extractor, appropriate cleaning items, etc.). For $700, either you have nothing left for anything else, or you cut corners on the rifle itself. You you can get a Stag for that much, as I and others have already said, and that's probably the best option. $700 will, however, get you a perfectly good AK and and an ample supply of mags and ammo, which will probably give you more fun at the range than an AR that isn't running 100%.

If you're going to go with the more expensive platform, you might as well get a good example of that sort of rifle.

Now, if you're willing to save up a little more, instead of getting a Bushy or RRA, I'd still get the Stag, but also put $100 towards some USGI mags (that should get you 10 mags or so)
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 2:50:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:
$720 buys you a very high quality AR which is better then any AK any day.



Perhaps you should come run a carbine class with me and my 5.56 AK.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:42:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 3:44:34 PM EDT by boltcatch]
This really isn't about AR vs. AK, it's about having a little pride in the quality of your firearms. Below a certain budget, the AKM clone you can afford will be nicer than the AR you can afford (and if you go lower still, you're better off getting an SKS or bolt gun).

Let's say you're looking at a new car/truck. Do you get a basic, capable pickup with 4WD? Do you get a more expensive, and perhaps much cooler, truck or SUV, but choose to skimp a little bit by getting the 2WD or AWD model instead of the 4WD? Do you get the more expensive model with 4WD, but buy $40 tires and put K-mart brand motor oil in it?

That said, go save for a Stag rifle.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:26:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Salmonaxe:
If I was to buy my first AR again, I'd probably do it like this:

1. Get this upper (Complete Upper 16" w/ARMS #40 Rear Sight $468 ) from G&R:

2. Buy a complete lower like this for $225:


Connect the two together and you'll have yourself a really nice rifle. My friendly FFL charges me $20 to do a transfer. and I doubt that shipping on both items would be more than $30. So your grand total could be $743.



My buddy got himself a LMT upper, 16" for $385 (I think). Combine that with a $239 RRA lower and you've got a decent gun for about $624...and it'll be better than Olympic Arms (I have no knowledge of DPMS personally).
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 6:57:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/12/2006 7:00:29 PM EDT by FallDownGoBoom]
Ok, I am new to the AR world, but not to shooting. I bought an Olympic Arms M4 clone (a smidge less than 800 bucks, Stainless barrel coated black so it is not shiny), and it has been great. Nice rifle, and all the proper bits are forged and finished just right. Shoots very well and dependably. I was comparing it superficially to Stag uppers and lowers the other day (very nice too) at a shop, and really felt that there wasn't any differences in fit and finish. That being said, I think Stag has a lot of really nice deals, and I will probably go with their stuff next, or oly again (as they make matched upper and lowers).

FYI, you can research prices for stag here:

http://www.eaglefirearms.net/

If I were you, I would find a friend that has one of the various manufacturer's product and see if they will let you try them out. Go with what you like. Make it into what you want.


--Boom

--Edit-- Is it possible everybody just remembers oly's cast stuff, cause their current stuff is pretty nice (if not a bit pricey)?
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