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Posted: 4/8/2006 9:16:36 PM EDT
Okay, so Im going in the Guard (already sworn, already drilling, ship to Basic/AIT 26 MAY). The short of it is, I want to buy a rifle that will be exactly like the ones at my unit (M16A2s with Aimpoints on mounts that extend foward of the carry handle and drop down so the Iron sight pic goes through the bottom of the aimpoint) so I can practice on my own time with a rifle that is identicle (weight, trigger, sights, quality, etc.) to the one I'll be carrying in Iraq (minus burst capability, of course).

My questions: Do I need to buy a Colt? Are any others equal for less? where do I get the CORRECT mount (same manufacterer prefered) and hardware, and which Aimpoint model should I get?

My only experience with AR/M16 pattern weapons is my crash course I got at drill, carrying one around the woods for a weekend, and shooting a couple hundred blanks. In other words, I know jack about those types of rifles. I expect to get pretty good at basic, but I want to qualify expert soon enough to get a slot to, and finish, sniper school before my unit deploys, so I will definately need to practice on my own time.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 9:19:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 9:37:32 PM EDT
If you don't drink kool aid then the world's your oyster.
IMHO a Bushy should be the ticket; http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/weapons/bcwa2s20.asp
Just order it with the Govt profile barrel.

Sounds like an Aimpoint mount?http://www.riflescopes.com/products/96757/aimpoint_works_568059_10174_10566.htm

Maybe an ARMS #39?
http://www.armsmounts.com/catalog.php?action=124&item_id=41

Good Luck,
Stay safe and thanks for volunteering for the rest of us.
Bill
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 9:51:48 PM EDT
The manufacturer isnt really an issue...they will all look, feel, and operate the same.
The configuration is the bigger issue....and of course, if you are looking to 'exactly' duplicate what you will carry on duty, then you are talking NFA money and opposed to a few hundred bucks.

Ask around and see what the configuration is that you will most likely be getting.
If it were me, I would probably opt for a bushmaster in a similar config.....but if you have the money and have a class III dealer in mind...go the realistic route

Good luck!
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 10:20:51 PM EDT
any A4 with aimpoint m3 in an arms mount will do,

if you want an a2 thats cool, but theres a good chance that if you will be in a combat arms unit they will be getting updated weapons, M4/m16a4

whats your recruiter telling you? did they assign you an mos yet? its a little premature to be thinking about going to a "sniper" school, before you even go through boot camp and find out your job. just bust your butt doing well with what you are doing at the moment and take advantage of every opertunity that becomes availible.


good luck
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 11:39:03 PM EDT
What unit/MOS are you? FYI, I was in an infantry unit, and we were NEVER offered any type of marksmanship school, and we had no snipers in our company. IIRC, our HHC part of the battalion had 1 sniper. That's 1 man (or 1 team) out of a battalion.

How do you know you are carring that weapon? Do you not have 249's or 240's?

I'd worry about PT, map reading, etc. before I worried about a weapon that I may or may not carry sometime in the future, IF you are deployed, IF it is to Iraq.
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 11:49:03 PM EDT
Inbound IM.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 3:20:43 AM EDT
I'd hold off on buying a particular rifle right now. You'll get all the time you want to play with your Basic issued rifle when IET starts, especially when you have BRM.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 4:12:47 AM EDT
I'm in the AF now, but was in the Army in a previous life. When you fire for qualification, it will not be with the M68 (Aimpoint). If you want to make Expert, you will need to use your iron sights. Therefore, any AR15 set-up as a standard A2 will work. Best of luck!
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 4:36:55 AM EDT
If you want to develop your marksmanship skills, get either an air rifle of 22 with a good single stage trigger.

Practice every day for 30 min to an hour. Shoot all 4 positions, and concentrate on group size.

With an airgun, you can set up a range in your house, 15 ft is the norm.

The skills, (sight picture, trigger squeeze, breath control) all carry over directly to the AR/M16 rifles as far as marksmanship is concerned. Plus, you won't have to deal with recoil and muzzle blast while you are learning.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 7:40:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JoshD:
What unit/MOS are you? FYI, I was in an infantry unit, and we were NEVER offered any type of marksmanship school, and we had no snipers in our company. IIRC, our HHC part of the battalion had 1 sniper. That's 1 man (or 1 team) out of a battalion.

How do you know you are carring that weapon? Do you not have 249's or 240's?

I'd worry about PT, map reading, etc. before I worried about a weapon that I may or may not carry sometime in the future, IF you are deployed, IF it is to Iraq.



First answer: Co. B 1/167th Infantry, 11B. Also, the Army just decided to possibly double the number of cycles through sniper school (I read it in the Army Times), so I'm hoping I can sent if for no other reason than to enhance my marksmanship ability.

Second answer: because Im going to do whatever I can to get out of carrying a SAW. I'll find a way.

Third answer: I do PT five days a week, lift weights (light, high repitition) twice or three times a week, and I practice landnav as often as possible (as in, I actually go rucking in the woods). Also, my unit already got advanced notice of possible deployment to Iraq within the next 24 months (the exact time table is still being worked out)
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 7:49:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 7:52:15 AM EDT by Dave_A]
1) M16A2 is the weapon to start with... You will carry a M16A4 in OSUT (assuming you go the full federal program, with the Active duty folks at Benning), but qualification is with iron sights, ergo A2...

2) If you want to practice with an AR-pattern weapon before you go, make does not matter - buy what you like in the A2 (20", iron sights) configuration - at that point they're pretty much all the same. If your unit switches rifles, you can do the conversion on yours at that point (let's just say there are plenty of M16A2s with lowers marked 'M16A1' - the Army does it the same way, especially when budgets are tight (eg Guard units))....

3) Most important things to do at Benning: (1) Listen to your DS, (2) drink lots of water (esp in the summer), (3) do your best, and (4) avoid the damn red ants .....

I'm not 11B, but I spent a few months at Benning doing other stuff... Nice post, shitty weather, but you won't be concerned with either....
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:02:04 AM EDT
To clear up a couple things:

(1) I'm not going to buy this rifle until after AIT. I'm talking about once I finish AIT and Im on the regular drill schedule, I'm going to want to get range time at least once a week with a rifle just like what I have at the unit (An M16A2 with an M68). I figure marksmanship is going to be like PT and rucking, ie. once a month and two weeks a year isnt going to cut it.

(2) I don't need the burst function, I probably wont use it much anyway.

(3) What my recruiter told me (after I told him I made a 89 on the ASVAB): You wanna be in the Infantry? Hooah! Thats an eleven bravo. But... are you sure you dont want to be a admin specialist or chemical operations specialist? The 31st Chemical is ten minutes away, all the other cadets are there. The nearest Infantry unit is Bravo 167th out of Pelham...Alright, you're the boss.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:35:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ruggerwterrets:

Originally Posted By JoshD:
What unit/MOS are you? FYI, I was in an infantry unit, and we were NEVER offered any type of marksmanship school, and we had no snipers in our company. IIRC, our HHC part of the battalion had 1 sniper. That's 1 man (or 1 team) out of a battalion.

How do you know you are carring that weapon? Do you not have 249's or 240's?

I'd worry about PT, map reading, etc. before I worried about a weapon that I may or may not carry sometime in the future, IF you are deployed, IF it is to Iraq.



First answer: Co. B 1/167th Infantry, 11B. Also, the Army just decided to possibly double the number of cycles through sniper school (I read it in the Army Times), so I'm hoping I can sent if for no other reason than to enhance my marksmanship ability.
Second answer: because Im going to do whatever I can to get out of carrying a SAW. I'll find a way.

Third answer: I do PT five days a week, lift weights (light, high repitition) twice or three times a week, and I practice landnav as often as possible (as in, I actually go rucking in the woods). Also, my unit already got advanced notice of possible deployment to Iraq within the next 24 months (the exact time table is still being worked out)



You have much to learn my young Padawan..........
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 8:44:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FROST18E:

You have much to learn my young Padawan..........



Okay, and? Im supposing if the alphanumeric in your s/n means what I think it means, you are probably qualified to give me some sort of hint.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 9:48:15 AM EDT
It means that Army Times is about as reliable a source as the National Enquirer ;)
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:44:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ruggerwterrets:
To clear up a couple things:

(1) I'm not going to buy this rifle until after AIT. I'm talking about once I finish AIT and Im on the regular drill schedule, I'm going to want to get range time at least once a week with a rifle just like what I have at the unit (An M16A2 with an M68). I figure marksmanship is going to be like PT and rucking, ie. once a month and two weeks a year isnt going to cut it.

(2) I don't need the burst function, I probably wont use it much anyway.

(3) What my recruiter told me (after I told him I made a 89 on the ASVAB): You wanna be in the Infantry? Hooah! Thats an eleven bravo. But... are you sure you dont want to be a admin specialist or chemical operations specialist? The 31st Chemical is ten minutes away, all the other cadets are there. The nearest Infantry unit is Bravo 167th out of Pelham...Alright, you're the boss.



Good, cause you'd have to pay about $13,000-$15,000 for an M16A2.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 10:57:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
It means that Army Times is about as reliable a source as the National Enquirer ;)



Noted. One of the Cadre reads it, it was in the cadet lounge, I was bored...
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:06:50 AM EDT
I think most people in the Army have read it at least once, just gotta take it with a grain of salt, their XM8 articles were interesting, well, the pictures were :)
What year cadet are you btw?
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:12:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 11:16:06 AM EDT by DocBach]
The sniper training sounds about right. My unit is dealing with the ordeal of having the whole 40th ID restructured into a UA brigade like the regular army and we just got told that we've got spots for sniper school and squad designated marksman school. His unit might be undergoing the same transition and might have open sniper slots too.

As for what brand of AR.... most of the Army's M16's are FN's anyways so don't worry about the Colt. Just make sure the upper is a Government profile 20" with a 1:7 twist. But I'd probably still go with an M16A4 clone because most units are switching to it. We got M16A4s a few years back and now we're supposed to be getting M4s.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:29:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 11:31:59 AM EDT by Sd_Kfz_182]
Forget about buying a rifle to "practice" with, you will get plenty of that in OSUT.

Focus on PT...
- Start running 4-6 miles, pushups, situps, and pullups
- Buy a used Lg. ALICE pack and fill it with 60 pounds of crap and start walking work your way up to 18 miles in 4 hours.
- Get a compass and DoD map, shoot an azmiuth start walking, learn the major and minor terrain features and terrain association.
- Run 5-7 miles
- Study up on your first aid
- learn the specs on the M16AX, M4, M240, M249, RAAWS, M9, M2, Mk19
- Ask your unit for a SMCT, study the fuck out of it
- Did I mention running?

As a new private you might have to earn the right to go to sniper school, I've never seen anybody below E4 go te sniper. Just shooting expert doesn't mean jack shit, we all can do that.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 11:56:42 AM EDT
Since ou are new to ARs I'd suggest that you: Go to the local gunstore. Look for a full length (20" barel) AR15 without a detachable carry handle (A2 configuration). Write down the brand, price and modle number. Come back to this thread and post the info. Then you can find out if it's a fair price and decent gun. Provided it is buy it. Buy as much ammo as you can afford. Search the EE on here for an aimpoint and a mount like the one your unit has. Buy thoose. For what you are wanting to do it does not have to be a specific brand rifle. As long as it isn't a complete POS you should be OK. If you are only practicing marksmanship barrel profile shouldn't matter as you wont be humping it all over hell and back. You may also want to consider buying a .22, it's a lot cheaper to practice basic marksmanship with. You will get pleny of practice changing, mags preforming remidial action etc. with the weapon they issue you.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 12:09:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sd_Kfz_182:
Forget about buying a rifle to "practice" with, you will get plenty of that in OSUT.



see above post



Focus on PT...
- Start running 4-6 miles, pushups, situps, and pullups
- Buy a used Lg. ALICE pack and fill it with 60 pounds of crap and start walking work your way up to 18 miles in 4 hours.
- Get a compass and DoD map, shoot an azmiuth start walking, learn the major and minor terrain features and terrain association.
- Run 5-7 miles
- Study up on your first aid
- learn the specs on the M16AX, M4, M240, M249, RAAWS, M9, M2, Mk19
- Ask your unit for a SMCT, study the fuck out of it
- Did I mention running?



see above post



As a new private you might have to earn the right to go to sniper school, I've never seen anybody below E4 go to sniper. Just shooting expert doesn't mean jack shit, we all can do that.



noted


Originally posted by NUcadet07:
What year cadet are you btw?



Its complicated. its my first semester of ROTC, but since its my fourth semester of college Im listed as an MSII, even though Ive been part time until this semester and am technically still a freshman. Im uncontracted, and probably wont contract until I have been to Iraq at least once, because Im 20 years old and want to spend my time blowing shit up, not running around the quad with a rubber duckie arguing with some wednesday warrior frat boy about who said "bang-bang" first, in preparation for the belt-fed gayness of LDAC.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 12:31:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 12:32:21 PM EDT by NUcadet07]


Its complicated. its my first semester of ROTC, but since its my fourth semester of college Im listed as an MSII, even though Ive been part time until this semester and am technically still a freshman. Im uncontracted, and probably wont contract until I have been to Iraq at least once, because Im 20 years old and want to spend my time blowing shit up, not running around the quad with a rubber duckie arguing with some wednesday warrior frat boy about who said "bang-bang" first, in preparation for the belt-fed gayness of LDAC.


With an attitude like that and what you seem to want to do in the Army, are you sure going the officer route is the right thing for you? Sounds like you'd prefer to stay enlisted.
I won't argue the rest of your posting as I'll be at LDAC 9th Regiment in July. Might wana evaluate what it is you want out of the Army though.

Steve
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 1:36:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
With an attitude like that and what you seem to want to do in the Army, are you sure going the officer route is the right thing for you? Sounds like you'd prefer to stay enlisted.
I won't argue the rest of your posting as I'll be at LDAC 9th Regiment in July. Might wana evaluate what it is you want out of the Army though.

Steve



I have thought long and hard about it and decided that I will eventually become an officer, the operative word being EVENTUALLY. Later in life I will want the higher pay, especially if I decide to domesticate myself, and probably as I age and get battered I will probably want the reduction in physical demand. But right now, as I said, I'm 20 years old, writing OPORDs is boring, and I want to blow shit up. Ive got seven years to contract without needing an age wavier, and I'm going to spend it as an 11B.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 1:43:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ruggerwterrets:
Its complicated. its my first semester of ROTC, but since its my fourth semester of college Im listed as an MSII, even though Ive been part time until this semester and am technically still a freshman. Im uncontracted, and probably wont contract until I have been to Iraq at least once, because Im 20 years old and want to spend my time blowing shit up, not running around the quad with a rubber duckie arguing with some wednesday warrior frat boy about who said "bang-bang" first, in preparation for the belt-fed gayness of LDAC.



ROTC is gay, and the training they give you is a joke...let's not even talk about the FTXs
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 1:55:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 8:18:38 AM EDT by ruggerwterrets]

Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:

Originally Posted By ruggerwterrets:
not running around the quad with a rubber duckie arguing with some wednesday warrior frat boy about who said "bang-bang" first, in preparation for the belt-fed gayness of LDAC.



ROTC is gay, and the training they give you is a joke...let's not even talk about the FTXs



Yes, I kind of noticed, thank you for pointing out what Im already so acutely aware of. The only thing worse than doing STX with rubber duckys is doing it with a bunch of other college students (and here that means mostly dumb sorostitutes and obnoxious frat daddies) gawking as they pass by. I cant speak for ROTC FTX though, I was doing REAL FTX with my unit that weekend.

ETA: This is a description of what MSIs and MSIIs do here, Im pretty sure the IIIs get higher tempo, and higher intensity.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 2:06:46 PM EDT
"I don't want to carry a SAW"...
Well, don't worry about having the opportunity. My son is back from 3rd combat tour as rifleman/SAW gunner as LCPL. he didn't get asked to be a SAW gunner until he had proved to the Sarge that he knew what he was doing. tactics are more important than shooting skill, but only marginally so.
did anyone mention get a 22rifle and practice? if you can use a 22 at 50yds to hit asprin tablets every time, in timed fire, then you have learned the skill to shoot any weapon.
I will remind you of one of the great shooters of WW-II, Sgt Alvin York. the military training didn't teach him how to shoot, he brought it with him shooting a single shot rifle back home.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 4:11:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ruggerwterrets:

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
With an attitude like that and what you seem to want to do in the Army, are you sure going the officer route is the right thing for you? Sounds like you'd prefer to stay enlisted.
I won't argue the rest of your posting as I'll be at LDAC 9th Regiment in July. Might wana evaluate what it is you want out of the Army though.

Steve



I have thought long and hard about it and decided that I will eventually become an officer, the operative word being EVENTUALLY. Later in life I will want the higher pay, especially if I decide to domesticate myself, and probably as I age and get battered I will probably want the reduction in physical demand. But right now, as I said, I'm 20 years old, writing OPORDs is boring, and I want to blow shit up. Ive got seven years to contract without needing an age wavier, and I'm going to spend it as an 11B.




I see a bright future ahead of you. Unfortunately it’s the headlights of the truck that is going to run you over. Post back after you return from AIT.

You have a lot to learn. It is a privilege to lead men in combat. Not just something you wake up one day and decide to do for “higher pay”.

With the attitude I am sensing, don’t be surprised when you get picked to be the first to unmask before the all clear in a chemical environment.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 5:52:31 PM EDT
Sounds like you have a poor ROTC program. Also if you don't wana play with rubber duckies then thats all well and good, I'm sure you will never find them in the active duty Army.. we have 300 something M16A2's here in our arms room and still use the rubber duckies more often than the M16's, and when we don't use them we use our demilled M14's and I would rather carry that rubber ducky around than that M14. I can only speak for myself but I am 20 as well, and I look forward to the honor of men allowing me to command them in 14 months. Best of luck in your endeavors and I hope you treat your officers with a bit more respect then those who are trying to become them.

Steve
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:12:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 6:13:27 PM EDT by fla556guy]
Just for the record. I could spout off about all sorts of things that make my information more qualified than the next guy's...but I won't waste your time.

Get an AR-15 flat-top in a 20" rifle length gas system, or a 16" in a carbine length. You will most likely be using one of these two in the .mil

From the standpoint of trigger pull and sight usage, they are all the same, when talking about irons(just the sight radius that differs).

Trigger pull is the same

Recoil will be a bit heavier with the carbine for obvious reasons (weight, etc)

Just remember:

IF you follow the basic principles of marksmanship :
-trigger pull, trigger pull, trigger pull (IMHO more important than perfect sight picture)
-Proper position
-Consistant cheek weld
-Focus on front sight

You will do fine if you follow the above, no matter which rifle you shoot
If you do not do these things, you can have the most accurate rifle in existance, and I would whip your butt with a plain-jane bolt action hunting rifle.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:16:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 7:12:42 PM EDT by ruggerwterrets]

Originally Posted By cpt_en_ca:

You have a lot to learn. It is a privilege to lead men in combat. Not just something you wake up one day and decide to do for “higher pay”.

With the attitude I am sensing, don’t be surprised when you get picked to be the first to unmask before the all clear in a chemical environment.



Wow, you really are perceptive. You have assesed that someone who only has two drills and a semester of ROTC has a lot to learn. I know I have a lot to learn, and I have a hunch I will learn a lot more getting real world experience as a Private, Specialist and Jr. NCO than I will playing with rubber duckys on the quad. And I understand it is a privelage to lead people into combat. Its also something Im going to be doing that as a Jr. NCO in the Infantry, BEFORE I decide to do the officer route. It is my observation that being a squad leader requires as much if not more practical leadership than being a platoon leader.

And my attitude? My attitude is THIS: Proper Practice and Preparation Prevent Piss Poor Performance. Even after I finish AIT, Im going to need to continue to train, and not just one weekend a month of drill and two weeks AT, if I want to maximize my ability to come home from Iraq alive. That means PT AT LEAST three times a week (but usually more like four or five, not including two or three trips to the weights). That means practicing land nav with a ruck at least once a week. It means finding someone brave enough to practice comabtives with at least once a week. And (on point for this thread) it means going to the range at least once a week, with equipment as close as possible to what Im going to have to be familiar and proficient with when Mr. "I hate American" with an RPG starts trying to send me home in peices. Train, Train, Train. Practice, Practice, Practice. And then train some more. There are people who are going to try to kill me. Id rather not train with one set of equipment, and then face them with something different. And my reason for wanting to go to sniper school is to advance my abilities even further, in both shooting and concealment, to enhance my combat effectiveness and survivability even further.

At this stage in my life, I just dont feel like I want to be in the officer role. I want to be hands on and heavy lifting. And when I do take up the officer role later I want to have real world experience both following and leading at the lower levels. At this time I want to be around guys like myself, who are equally youthful, equally energetic, and who are equally tuned into he idea that we are in a deadly business. I currently have inadequate patience to spend my time in the company of MS Is and IIs (who at my particular university are mostly rich kids I further fail to relate to) who have been conned into the idea that war is a video game, learning how to spend an inordinate amount of time writting OPORDs, count beans, and into whom it has yet to sink in that dicking up at this job could get them and others killed.

That is a long winded statement. I hope it clears up any confusion. Sometimes I express that last point in a less mature way by simply saying "I dont wanna write OPORDS, I wanna BLOW SHIT UP!" Maybe thats not the best way to put it, but Im trying to be as short and sweet as possible with that.

Edited because: I needed to tidy some things up.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:36:27 PM EDT
Boundless energy? Rich kids? I dunno bout you but I don't have boundless energy at 20.. nor do most of my friends almost all of whom are in ROTC here. As for the rich kid part, you are hsowing your ignorance by making generalizations based on where you go to school and I certainly hope you learn to stop this practice soon, even as an E-1 in the Army it will not help you, especially in this kind of war.

As for the OPORD part, deal with it or get the hell out. It is a part of the job, and they are MSII's, what do you expect of them? The hardest work comes MSIII year and if you don't learn to get that planning time down then you'll get N's on your evaluations. MSII year sucks, that is whent he BS is and it weeds people (from what I have seen, those like yourself) out of the program and prepares you for your MSIII year and then LDAC.

I do not mean any of this as a personal attack on you, I just feel that most of what you have written is based on lack of experience and possibly ignorance on your part to look and see what else needs to be done. Perhaps you don't want to do the work that is required and look down on those who do, or just as you say, you would rather get your hands dirtier doing the grunt work, thats fine, but don't for a second look down or talk down at those of us here who have sacrified and done the work to get where we are, be it a lowly MSIII such as myself or a Lt Col who comissioned through ROTC. Those are my finals words on this matter here, if you like feel free to IM me and we can continue this conversation in a mature and professional manner. Best of luck

Steve
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:38:52 PM EDT
Oh, and as for the original question, I can point you to a gentleman who has some surplus M16A2 uppers for sale. All you'll need is a complete lower with A2 stock and you'll be good to go, then get your M68 and gooseneck. If you are interested drop me an IM.

Steve
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:43:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/9/2006 7:36:25 PM EDT by ruggerwterrets]

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
Sounds like you have a poor ROTC program. Also if you don't wana play with rubber duckies then thats all well and good, I'm sure you will never find them in the active duty Army.. we have 300 something M16A2's here in our arms room and still use the rubber duckies more often than the M16's, and when we don't use them we use our demilled M14's and I would rather carry that rubber ducky around than that M14. I can only speak for myself but I am 20 as well, and I look forward to the honor of men allowing me to command them in 14 months. Best of luck in your endeavors and I hope you treat your officers with a bit more respect then those who are trying to become them.

Steve



Oh, I treat officers with great respect, most of the IIIs and IVs here are pretty squared away, and I would follow any of the IVs branching to Infantry without thinking twice about it. The guys who are prior service, or at least have been to basic are pretty squared away too. My issues are generally with Is and IIs who are completely out of touch with what they are getting themselves into. I know they will eventually get good training, especially the ones who go to LTC, participate in Robin Sage, go to special schools, etc. and the rubber ducky training on the quad isnt all they are going to ever do. Many of them will probably go on to be very good officers.

Im just frustrated with the rubber duckies, and the kids who think rubber duckie training is what is going to prepare them to be an officer. I know they are going to be enlightened long before they commission, but wow, right now they sure do get on my nerves.

EDIT TO ADD: I neither look down upon, or intend to talk down to those who are going through the process of becoming officers, and certainly not those who have become officers through that process. That process is something I very much intend to do myself. I just have other things I want to do with this particular stage in my life.
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 6:53:47 PM EDT
I know I said I was done but I gotta know, whats the big deal with rubber duckies? You aren't actually shooting at anyone, would you prefer an M16 that you'll fire some blanks in, then it will jam, you'll conduct the drills etc.. while accomplishing very little that couldn't be done with a rubber ducky. You also get more time to train instead of the time it would take to sign out each weapon from the arms room etc.. Rubber duckies are training aids, you'll get plenty of real weapons training at LDAC, BOLC, OBC etc.. As an officer your platoon, section etc is your primary weapon, not your M16/M4.

Steve
Link Posted: 4/9/2006 9:50:08 PM EDT
I was going to post something after reading the cherry's previous posts but my dad always told me not to say anything if I didn't have anything nice to say
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:31:20 AM EDT
As for a rifle, anything will do. Even tho you say you will do anything to keep from carrying a SAW then you will probably get stuck with the 240, thats just Army life, so dont count on an M16A2 being your primary weapon for long, you might even get an M4 instead. When guard units deploy they usualy get good funding to refit before they leave. Just practicing the fundamentals of marksmanship will help you reguardless of the weapon, as for the rest of it all, you will learn soon enough. I admire your dedication and determination to be good at what you do and dont let anyone bring you down, just remember to practice everything else too, not just marksmanship.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 5:53:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/10/2006 5:55:51 AM EDT by whoanelly]
You're choosing the right method-decide whether you want to be an infantry PL after you've gone to Iraq as a Joe.

OPORDs are a small but important part of being an 11A. You must know how to do one properly but your ability to relate to and lead your men is what will make or break you, not your OPORD ability. FWIW the ROTC grads I've worked with did seem a little more polished with their OPORD production, probably due to the amount of time given to them in that curriculum. Generally, OCS grads have the best troop leading skills.

Obviously, you will be assigned a weapon based on the desires of everyone except you.

Edit: put at least 10% of your pay in the TSP. Trust me on this.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:07:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FROST18E:
I was going to post something after reading the cherry's previous posts but my dad always told me not to say anything if I didn't have anything nice to sayhinking.gif



I guess I deserve that sort to of comment, considering my lackluster ability to communicate.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:17:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NUcadet07:
As an officer your platoon, section etc is your primary weapon, not your M16/M4.



THAT is core to what I have been trying to say this whole time. Right now I want the challenges of BEING the weapon, the challenges of USING the weapon are something I want to save for later, when Im older and wiser, (and after I work on my communication skills).

Thanks for all the advice guys, It is much appreciated.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 8:51:48 AM EDT
I'm confused as to what your plans are. Do you want to graduate college and become an enlisted man then become commisioned? It seems kind of silly to me to do all that work at becoming an officer then go enlisted. If I were you I would drop out of college, enlist and if you wanted to become an officer go back to college.

To each his own though.
Link Posted: 4/10/2006 12:02:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By James_Brown:
I'm confused as to what your plans are. Do you want to graduate college and become an enlisted man then become commisioned? It seems kind of silly to me to do all that work at becoming an officer then go enlisted. If I were you I would drop out of college, enlist and if you wanted to become an officer go back to college.

To each his own though.



Im in college now. I have enlisted, and ship in two months. Im going to do another semester next spring to build credit hours. That way when I return and contract ROTC I'll be an MSIII and I'll be doing the high intensity, high tempo stuff. Im going to take a break from college to serve as an enlisted man for a couple years. I want to get as much experience as I can, hopefully getting at least some drill expeience as a squad leader, if not real world experience to build on later. Then when I will return when I feel like Im ready to give college another go. When I finally do become an officer, I hope I get branched to Infantry, because even though I will be ready for more of a planning and leading role, I will still want to get my hands dirty.

But this thread isnt about my long terms plans, its about short term facts. The fact is, Im going to be in Iraq relatively soon. I want to increase my survivability and value as an asset to the Army as much as possible. That means training, training, training, practice, more training, and training as realistically as possible.
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