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Posted: 4/7/2006 7:04:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:57:02 AM EDT by HEADACHE]
Senco, senko, sinco . . . . not cinco .. . . don't know anything about them.
Cant seem to FIND anything about them, I heard from a friend they make cheap $$$ lowers. . .

does anyone know anything about them?


EDITED TO MAKE NAME CORRECT . . . . SUN DEVIL NOT SENCO
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:03:27 AM EDT
anyone?? anyone?? bueller?? NE1??
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 8:27:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 9:03:43 AM EDT by ZitiForBreakfast]
google does neat things...

If you are not going to try to do that at least...But to answer your question, I have not until I did a google search.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:51:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
google does neat things...

If you are not going to try to do that at least...But to answer your question, I have not until I did a google search.



All I was able to find on Google was about the Senco Air-Powered Nailgun. Sorry, never heard of 'em. I've heard of Sendra, which may be what you're thinking of. They were a pre-ban company who made AR-15s.

Here's a link to a thread about Sendra from The Firing Line back in '98.

www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11744

Hope some of this helps.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 9:52:37 AM EDT
I searched 'Senco ar15'


Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:08:15 AM EDT
thats what i searched too, couldn find anything . . . I'll ask him again, he has been a contractor for so long he probably got the name mixed up. . . . . . . .
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:40:21 AM EDT
It was SUN DEVIL

Aren't they forged and made here in AZ ? ? ? ?

Any good?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:00:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 11:01:03 AM EDT by Forest]
Sun Devil...Hmm weren't they one of the Sendra/Nessif companies?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:14:37 AM EDT
Check out Teknic's ad over on the EE. They are extremely nice lowers but they are not cheap ($140).

Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:15:25 AM EDT
www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=2&f=179&t=150051

There you go..They are all over the web.

Impact has them on closeouts, i think
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:29:24 AM EDT
I have one on order from Teknic. The Sun Devil mfg website is: http://www.sundevilmfg.com/index.htm I have not seen them in person but in the pics that Stickman has posted they look nice.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:47:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 11:59:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:
www.ar15.com/lite/topic.html?b=2&f=179&t=150051

There you go..They are all over the web.

Impact has them on closeouts, i think




Impact is not cheaper in their "clearance" sale. Sun Devil EE thread


Here are a couple of pictures.......

img356.imageshack.us/img356/4853/fullsdlowerstick9av.th.jpg


img307.imageshack.us/img307/8499/dd95withacog4ia.th.jpg


img159.imageshack.us/img159/8672/p1010007900copy2zo.th.jpg




Never said they were....
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 12:54:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:18:49 PM EDT
My local dealer has one and it's very nice, comparable to the Wilson and Rock River sitting right next to it.....

- Clint
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 1:26:15 PM EDT
Pistol Parlor in Mesa had 2 the other day. A stripped for $79.99 I believe. Not that I recommend buying anything there. A big -1 on the attitude there. But saving a buck is saving a buck.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:02:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 2:52:43 PM EDT
I just called. She said she is out. They normally go for about $99.00. Possible I saw a discounted one?

Good luck

Les
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:01:17 PM EDT
I have seen two of these in person, great quality and they look good.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 3:22:57 PM EDT
79.99 for one of their billet machined lowers? super deal heck even forged thats not much profit at all still a great deal.

Anyway you are right on Pistol Parlor, bear mountain a bit woprse but no where near as bad as mandells, best bet is the sportsmans over by extension, great sales there from time to time
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 4:02:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CrotalusCo:
79.99 for one of their billet machined lowers? super deal heck even forged thats not much profit at all still a great deal.

Anyway you are right on Pistol Parlor, bear mountain a bit woprse but no where near as bad as mandells, best bet is the sportsmans over by extension, great sales there from time to time



Umm, pistol Parlor as always treated me nice and with respect, Mandells has been out of business for years now, AZ Sportsmans is out of business at that location, and finally bear mountain has high prices and is very condesending I suspect the Sportsmans Wherehouse will put them under soon.
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:16:51 PM EDT
If anyone takes the plunge and finds out I was correct on anything please post accordingly. If I was wrong about everything just forget I said anything.
Les
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 6:41:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CrotalusCo:
79.99 for one of their billet machined lowers? super deal heck even forged thats not much profit at all still a great deal.

Anyway you are right on Pistol Parlor, bear mountain a bit woprse but no where near as bad as mandells, best bet is the sportsmans over by extension, great sales there from time to time

79.99? WHERE?!?
Link Posted: 4/7/2006 10:28:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/7/2006 10:28:46 PM EDT by FallDownGoBoom]
I have handled a couple (past weekend) and I liked what I saw. Lots of machining marks (I'm sort of used to having a finishing run by machine), but they looked very nice. I haven' shot with the product, and I am curious about what they mean when they talk about dimensional inaccuracy on forgings. Next question is what type of aluminum, and is a billet really better than a forging? Metallurgy matters, if anybody has used one, I'm curious as to what they think.

--Boom
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 3:59:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FallDownGoBoom:
I have handled a couple (past weekend) and I liked what I saw. Lots of machining marks (I'm sort of used to having a finishing run by machine), but they looked very nice. I haven' shot with the product, and I am curious about what they mean when they talk about dimensional inaccuracy on forgings. Next question is what type of aluminum, and is a billet really better than a forging? Metallurgy matters, if anybody has used one, I'm curious as to what they think.

--Boom



See link below...

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=276547
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 9:49:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 4:09:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 4:22:02 PM EDT by Yojimbo]

Originally Posted By Stickman:

There seems to be two schools of thought on this. Some people are stating that the billet means nothing, and that some of the 6061 series used can't be any good. The other school of thought is presented by some people who work with metals for a living, and they seem to think that the currently produced billet is by far a better beast.

This topic has come up several times, and there seems to be a lot of opinions posted, without much else.

Like you said FDGB, metallurgy does matter, and how something is made or used it often as important, if not more so than what it is. Look at the people who say the the AR15 is just a glorified .22, it is, but its a pretty effective one.




I just want to clarify that 7075-T6 also starts as billet that's then further improved by the forging process before final machining. See the DSArms ad below. Notice how it says 7075-T6 billet forgings.



When we're talking about Sun Devil vs CMT lower it's not billet vs non-billet forged aluminum, both lowers start as an aluminum billet!

It's really lower quality billet vs higher quality billet that's also forged!

Hope that clears things up.

Link Posted: 4/8/2006 4:24:20 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:38:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/8/2006 7:30:48 PM EDT by Yojimbo]

Originally Posted By Stickman:
If you believe that a forged casting is that same as an actual billet, that would explain your point of view.

I would be interested in comments from someone who has knowledge in this field, but that hasn't happened up to this point. Winston_Wolf made his comment based off being a engineer in another thread, and that seems to be what I've heard from other people with similar backgrounds. Your thoughts are different, and I can't remember my metals enough to give a full account, so we will end up having to agree to disagree. Certainly not the end of the world, or even a big deal.



That's not what I said. I said that a 7075-T6 billet is forged into a rough (using your words)"casting" which is then machined to it's final dimensions. I was trying to show that the lower forging in the pic above comes from an aluminum billet, not that it is a billet. Though I guess you could still call it billet because it still needs to be finisihed.

I found this tid bit when I was researching "forging" and "billet".

The two words "forged" and "billet" have become synonymous, but in fact the manufacturing process is called forging and the material used is an aluminum billet - a solid piece of dense aluminum. The forge, a huge machine that exerts thousands of pounds of pressure on the metal, basically presses or rolls the billet into its fundamental form. This forging is then machined to final finish.

The Aluminum Association (www.aluminum.org), a trade organization which sets industry standards, defines a “billet” as a "hot-worked, semifinished product suitable for subsequent working."

If the above definition of a billet is correct isn’t it correct to say that both 6061-T6 and 7075-T6 lowers can start as billets?

The link below is to a CNC newsgroup thread discussing what it means when something is said to be machined from billet. It's not gun related but still relevent to this discussion.

groups.google.com/group/alt.machines.cnc/browse_thread/thread/11bd532b72cf8399/08e5becf80af41fb?q=%2Bwhat+%2Bis+%2Bbillet+%2Baluminum&hl=en&

I also want to add that I've never once said that Sun Devil lowers were crap or made of material unsuitible for use on an AR. All I'm saying is that to me they are not worth the price they cost because, though they may look nicer, lower receivers made of better material can be had for the same or less money.

Lastly, yes I agree that for now we'll just have to agree to disagree and let the experts take it from here.

Cheers!
Link Posted: 4/8/2006 6:39:17 PM EDT
I have a Sun Devil lower and I love it. It is great quality and makes a very nice tight fit with my upper. I would recommend them to anyone without hesitation.

Definatly quality lowers.
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