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Posted: 4/5/2006 5:09:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 5:11:31 AM EDT by EL_TIRADOR]
Are there any available on the open market? I was under the impression that they only sold to the Govt., but my buddy has one and he has no association to the Govt. He bought it here on the EE. Just curious.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:16:55 AM EDT
They are not legally restricted to being govt only

FN just doesn't sell to anyone else, IIRC...

And as with everything in this world, SOME find their way onto the civillian market... Of these, some are legit, some are not...

They're out there, but there's no one source, and no way to know if the one you got went out the back door of FNMI, or out of some unit's arms room...
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 7:23:41 AM EDT
Then, I assume it walked out the back door at FN. The upper is new, not scratched and beat-up like I see in the armory.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 7:41:06 AM EDT
I'm sure some new ones find their way to the market pretty much the same way as the new Colt A2 uppers that CDNN was selling a few months back.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 8:08:39 AM EDT
Since FN only sells to the gov, I'm sure that most on the market are either stolen or faked. Probably the second, since the only marking on the uppers is the FN stamp on the barrel. FN C/MP 1/7 or something like that. Take a Bushmaster, or Oly Army upper, stamp it as an FN and charge $200 more for it.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 8:21:17 AM EDT
This comes up every couple of months or so. Here's the readers digest version. (For a longer version, search the archives). Most of this info came straight from an FN employee.

FN can only legally sell M16's (and M16 parts) to the government. This is per their contract, not any law or statute. That said, once the government receives them, they are free to do with them what ever they want.

There are a number of genuine FN parts out there in the civilian market. Some are no doubt stolen (or "fell of the back of the truck" if you prefer) but some do come through various legal channels. When buying one, you have no way of really knowing if it was stolen or not. I bought an FN M16A2 barrel a while ago from Fulton Armory. While I can't swear it wasn't stolen, I seriously doubt it was considering the source.

Another popular myth is that FN parts in the civilian market are "factory seconds" or "rejects". This is complete and total BS. FN does not sell parts that do not pass inspection PERIOD. That's it in a nut shell
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 8:23:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Unicorn:
Since FN only sells to the gov, I'm sure that most on the market are either stolen or faked. Probably the second, since the only marking on the uppers is the FN stamp on the barrel. FN C/MP 1/7 or something like that. Take a Bushmaster, or Oly Army upper, stamp it as an FN and charge $200 more for it.



Why do people insist on spreading bad info?
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 8:54:48 AM EDT
After watching GI Factory on the Military Channel, we now know that FN manufactures
their own barrels, bolts, bolt carriers, upper receivers and lower receivers in house in their factory in South Carolina.

FN even outfits their M16A4 with the KAC M5 RAS at the factory.

Unlike Colt, Bushmaster, RRA etc. who have their parts manufactured by companies like
Anchor Forge, Cerro Forge, Cardinal Forge, CMT, LMT, ER Shaw etc.

While it may be possible for civilians to acquire FN components through unapproved means,
what you get may not be actual FN parts.

Bushmaster is plenty good enough for me.

HS1
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 9:20:26 AM EDT
FN parts have been around for a while. If the military gives uppers or rifles to any other govt agency (park service, indian res, local police,etc) they can then trade them for anything they want.

Example- At the last gunshow, a dealer had 30 perfect A1 uppers with mixed barrels-Colt, SAKO, FNMI, ect. He said that the Kentucky Wildlife Dept got a bunch fo M16s from some fed agancy and had him change the uppers to M4 style. The dealer was then free to sell the uppers on the open market.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 9:36:24 AM EDT
CDNN actually had mil-surplus FN uppers at one time. FN themselves cannot sell their mil-spec model dur to their contract. The respective services can apparently sell them though intermediaries. Our local PD got military rifles that were a mix of Colt and FN, dirt cheap too. Now they are just waiting on policy change sao they can use them.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 2:17:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
CDNN actually had mil-surplus FN uppers at one time. FN themselves cannot sell their mil-spec model dur to their contract. The respective services can apparently sell them though intermediaries. Our local PD got military rifles that were a mix of Colt and FN, dirt cheap too. Now they are just waiting on policy change sao they can use them.




So far as I can determine, the milsurp FN and Colt stuff that hits the market from time to time is, in fact the sell off of no longer needed older style assemblies, by the Armed Forces, and/or civie agencies that were supplied by the govt.

Notice that the FN stuff on the market are A2 pieces, not flat top receivered types. Same w/the A2 Colt uppers that CDNN had, and the A1 uppers they still have some of. The M4 change over by the Army, and now the flat toppeds rifles being acquired by the Marines make the earlier versions "surpable" (is that a word?)

During the Clinton years these things would have only hit the market as scrap metal. Fortunately, the current regs seem to have changed.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:32:31 PM EDT
It's quite possible for a legit FN upper, FN barrel, FN front sight base, etc. to wind up surplussed and sold through DRMO. If Unit X winds up with more than the authorized number of spare upper receivers, they usually find out if nearby Unit Y and Unit Z could use them, and failing that, they have to dispose of them, often as surplus, Condition A parts (I sure wouldn't sign a red condition tag for a new-in-wrap upper!). Smart DRMO customers put two and two together and wind up with legit FN parts assembled as an upper. It's even possible that complete uppers could wind up sold this way (though I'd do my damndest to hide a complete upper I couldn't ship to another unit before I'd send it to DRMO!).

I'd also point out that most manufacturers of anything pay pretty close attention to what their employees take home with them. FN is not some cheap-o outfit, and they are probably very much aware of what parts go missing day by day. A complete upper disappearing would NOT go unnoticed. I think it would be easier to have a complete upper walk out of the armory than out of FN's back door.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:47:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 5:28:03 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By HighStrung1:
After watching GI Factory on the Military Channel, we now know that FN manufactures
their own barrels, bolts, bolt carriers, upper receivers and lower receivers in house in their factory in South Carolina.

FN even outfits their M16A4 with the KAC M5 RAS at the factory.

Unlike Colt, Bushmaster, RRA etc. who have their parts manufactured by companies like
Anchor Forge, Cerro Forge, Cardinal Forge, CMT, LMT, ER Shaw etc.


While it may be possible for civilians to acquire FN components through unapproved means,
what you get may not be actual FN parts.

Bushmaster is plenty good enough for me.

HS1



Your a complete moron if you believe something you saw on TV proves the highlighted in red.

And I'm sure FN doesn't forge there own parts so they must use AH, Cerro, and Cardinal.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:50:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 3:50:58 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By cgv69:


FN can only legally sell M16's (and M16 parts) to the government. This is per their contract, not any law or statute. That said, once the government receives them, they are free to do with them what ever they want.






Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:52:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 3:53:05 PM EDT by DvlDog]
i once saw a VERY rare upper and like a dipshit i didnt buy it.

Atlanta gunshow. a dealer had 2 uppers that were A2 upper, 20inch 1/7 PENCIL barrel!!!!! marked FNMI 1/7 5.56 NATO. complete with BCG for $450. the seller, who was from columbia SC<wink wink> said that FN makes the pencil barrel for indonesia and other far east clients.

i NEED a 1/7 pencil barrel. anyone know of any?
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:57:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DvlDog:
i once saw a VERY rare upper and like a dipshit i didnt buy it.

Atlanta gunshow. a dealer had 2 uppers that were A2 upper, 20inch 1/7 PENCIL barrel!!!!! marked FNMI 1/7 5.56 NATO. complete with BCG for $450. the seller, who was from columbia SC<wink wink> said that FN makes the pencil barrel for indonesia and other far east clients.

i NEED a 1/7 pencil barrel. anyone know of any?



Its not that rare.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:06:29 PM EDT
then where can i find one? ive asked on here before and no one has ever mentioned theyve seen them or where to get them.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:25:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By cgv69:


FN can only legally sell M16's (and M16 parts) to the government. This is per their contract, not any law or statute. That said, once the government receives them, they are free to do with them what ever they want.









Reading comprehension is not your strong suit huh? In case you are not aware, there is a difference between contractual law and statutory law Back at ya
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