Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 4/4/2006 9:33:52 PM EDT
To have it centered perfectly? I noticed if you hold the rifle steady but move around, the red dot moves the point of aim...
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:35:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/4/2006 9:36:02 PM EDT by ASU1911]
In theory it is somewhat important at short range.

In practice, no.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:53:53 PM EDT
not really as there is little to no paralax with a RDS but things may be off a bit if the dot is clear at the edges of field of view
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 11:11:21 PM EDT
No, for the most part, the round will go where the dot is. In CQB, your posture will be entirely different than long-range, supported or aimed fire. Rather, you focus your reflexes on the front sight assembly or reticule and your head, eyes, and cheek are positioned differently. The dot will follow your bore, wherever your eye may be, generally speaking.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 11:28:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
not really as there is little to no paralax with a RDS but things may be off a bit if the dot is clear at the edges of field of view



Not with an Eotech, and probably not with an Aimpoint either. Even with the reticle all the way to one side, it's still true.

Cheekweld doesn't matter with red dot sights, so don't worry about it. However, it's critical when shooting irons, so don't forget how to do it!
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:28:16 AM EDT
Heck NO! I find my dot sight to be anything but precision. Shoot! When you have a 4MOA dot, you aren't exactly dealing with pinpoint, Jethro!
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:36:12 AM EDT
At least with an eotech where the sight is is where the bullet will hit.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 5:56:23 AM EDT
It doesn't matter much at all unless you're cross eye dominant. Then you have some training to do.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:32:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By demigod:
Heck NO! I find my dot sight to be anything but precision. Shoot! When you have a 4MOA dot, you aren't exactly dealing with pinpoint, Jethro!



Then get an EOTech, Cletus

On topic, within 25m, RDS's will have some parallax. Past that, they are (at least the EOTech is) parallax free.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 7:49:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:

Originally Posted By demigod:
Heck NO! I find my dot sight to be anything but precision. Shoot! When you have a 4MOA dot, you aren't exactly dealing with pinpoint, Jethro!



Then get an EOTech, Cletus




But I already have a sight on my 10/22, Jethro!
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 7:51:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GMAN51:
At least with an eotech where the sight is is where the bullet will hit.


That sure as hell isn't true for mine. If you put it in the side of the sight picture, you won't hit the target.

Trust me.

Put the sight down on a flat surface, or the upper. Aim it at one object, while it's sitting still, nobody's touching it. Now move your head to one side, and you'll notice the dot is no longer on the same spot.

The EOTech needs a good cheek weld.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 7:57:03 AM EDT
i have also tried the "set the EOtech down, aim it at something, and move your head" and the crosshair moves off the target as i move my head. is it true that this goes away at 25 yards?
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 8:02:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bh5505:
i have also tried the "set the EOtech down, aim it at something, and move your head" and the crosshair moves off the target as i move my head. is it true that this goes away at 25 yards?


Maybe... but I don't have mine handy to try it out. I doubt it.

I don't see why it'd be differently at differnt ranges. I would think it'd be a linear correlation across the ranges.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 9:18:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:

Originally Posted By GMAN51:
At least with an eotech where the sight is is where the bullet will hit.


That sure as hell isn't true for mine. If you put it in the side of the sight picture, you won't hit the target.

Trust me.

Put the sight down on a flat surface, or the upper. Aim it at one object, while it's sitting still, nobody's touching it. Now move your head to one side, and you'll notice the dot is no longer on the same spot.

The EOTech needs a good cheek weld.



+1, For a while I thought mine was defective or something, because everyone kept telling me that it was parallax free, but mine is most defineitely NOT parallax free. And I have yet to find one that is, though EOtech Kool-aid drinkers will tell you otherwise, it is still my favorite RDS though.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 9:28:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 9:29:16 AM EDT by MlTCHELL]

Originally Posted By PanzerMK7:

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:

Originally Posted By GMAN51:
At least with an eotech where the sight is is where the bullet will hit.


That sure as hell isn't true for mine. If you put it in the side of the sight picture, you won't hit the target.

Trust me.

Put the sight down on a flat surface, or the upper. Aim it at one object, while it's sitting still, nobody's touching it. Now move your head to one side, and you'll notice the dot is no longer on the same spot.

The EOTech needs a good cheek weld.



+1, For a while I thought mine was defective or something, because everyone kept telling me that it was parallax free, but mine is most defineitely NOT parallax free. And I have yet to find one that is, though EOtech Kool-aid drinkers will tell you otherwise, it is still my favorite RDS though.


Has anyone tried the same thing with an AimPoint? I have been told by a couple people that it is parallax-free, but I haven't tried it. The EOTech has a pretty drastic change in POI when you move your head, but I can easily manage groups about 2-3" at 100 yards, and my eyesight isn't all that hot. I've only shot long (100 yards) ranges once with my EOTech, and I wasn't disappointed.

I'd be all over an AimPoint if it had a beter reticle, but mainly because of the battery life, how you can leave it on forever and not worry about it.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 9:31:50 AM EDT
I believe Aimpoint admits theirs is not parallax free inside of 50 meters, but claims that it is past 50, how this is possible escapes me, i've always figured it is about the same as the EOtech, though my experience with aimpoints is limited.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 9:51:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 9:53:26 AM EDT by M4A1OwnsYou]

Originally Posted By MlTCHELL:

Originally Posted By GMAN51:
At least with an eotech where the sight is is where the bullet will hit.


That sure as hell isn't true for mine. If you put it in the side of the sight picture, you won't hit the target.

Trust me.

Put the sight down on a flat surface, or the upper. Aim it at one object, while it's sitting still, nobody's touching it. Now move your head to one side, and you'll notice the dot is no longer on the same spot.

The EOTech needs a good cheek weld.



That is EXACTLY what I did. I have it mounted on a carry handle so I set the carry handle on my desk and looked through it, moving my head around and noticed the POA changes. Which is why I made this thread haha

ETA - My 4x scope on my 10/22 has a parallax setting of 50 yds. What does that mean?
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 10:02:36 AM EDT
I have put ARs in shooting vices with both Aimpoints and Eotechs, and the POA definately changes when you move your head around.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 10:15:32 AM EDT
Boy am I glad i'm not just crazy, you don't know how many people have told me "mine doesn't do that", I know most guys don't know their RDS from their ass but after a long enough time you begin to doubt your own eyes.

On a related note, this is why I like to keep my front sight assembly on my eotech equipped rifles, it doesn't interfere with quick shot placement, but if you really want to thread the needle, stick the dot on top of the post for impressive accuracy potential.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 10:21:51 AM EDT
Guys who see the reticle moving when the gun is laying there:

I think it works differently when you look at the target with both eyes open. One is directly at the target and the other is through the reticle.



Link Posted: 4/5/2006 10:42:03 AM EDT
Cheek weld may not have an effect on wher the dot is at ignition, but it does have an effect on accuracy of the shot at long ranges because it helps to keep the dot on the targtet.

I only mention this to stress proper technique which as I have noticed is really getting sloppy with Red Dot sights. This will effect accuracy, target acquisition, follow up shots etc.

Tack
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 10:44:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Guys who see the reticle moving when the gun is laying there:

I think it works differently when you look at the target with both eyes open. One is directly at the target and the other is through the reticle.






Probably. I use my Aimpoint with both eyes open, and it's impossible to center the dot that way.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 10:47:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4A1OwnsYou:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
Guys who see the reticle moving when the gun is laying there:

I think it works differently when you look at the target with both eyes open. One is directly at the target and the other is through the reticle.






Probably. I use my Aimpoint with both eyes open, and it's impossible to center the dot that way.



But the point of aim is probably good, right?

With my EOTech I can get the effect the others are talking about where the dot appears to wander when the gun is sitting still on something. But when I have both eyes open and it moves around it is still a correct POA as far as I can tell so far.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 10:54:21 AM EDT
Go onto the aimpoint website, go onto the eotech website

with some basic physics/optics explanations, they explain how their RDS are parallax free.

Take your eotech to the range, and set it up on a rest/bipod. Put the center, 1 MOA dot on a target 100 yards away. Move your head around, and notice how the 1 MOA dot stays EXACTLY where you pointed it.

YES, these sights are parallax free. at ranges closer than 25 yards, the amount of shift you can get is less than the amount of space you have on the sight! So unless you are trying to shoot hairs off a tango, these weapon sights are for all practical purposes, parallax free at all ranges
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 11:43:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 11:45:11 AM EDT by FMJ]
NO

THE RED DOT IS YOUR POI ( unless you didnt zero )

KEEP BOTH EYES OPEN PLZ!!
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:01:46 PM EDT
For all you guys that say "mine shifts", at what range are you guys coming to this conclusion?

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:06:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
For all you guys that say "mine shifts", at what range are you guys coming to this conclusion?

WIZZO



I was just messing around in my room. Extremely close range.

So range makes the difference huh?
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:18:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 12:30:46 PM EDT by Yojimbo]
No optic is 100% parallax free at all distances. Every optic will have parallax correction set at a certain distance.

The non-magnified red dot optics like EOTech and Aimpoint will have parallax correction set at shorter distances then magnified optics but they will still exhibit parallax at very short distances.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:20:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4A1OwnsYou:

Originally Posted By WIZZO_ARAKM14:
For all you guys that say "mine shifts", at what range are you guys coming to this conclusion?

WIZZO



I was just messing around in my room. Extremely close range.

So range makes the difference huh?



Yup. Past 25m is supposed to be parallax free. Set your new EOTech on top of your car roof and look at a tree 100yds (or any distance over 25-30yds) away. You should notice that the dot won't move on the tree while it moves in the EOTech's screen with both eyes open.

That is the magic of the EOThingy.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 12:22:37 PM EDT
when i tried it was across a 20 ft room, so i guess i can believe the idea that it gets better at longer distances. i was using both eyes open and it would move at least 5 inches or so at 20 ft when i moved my head. i guess i better test it out at 100 yards.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 1:51:31 PM EDT
Ok, I set my rifle up in a rest, and aimed across my backyard to the back fence. Here's the pics to show what I saw.





Ok, in the first pic, you can see the reticle is all the way to the side, as evidenced by only half the circle showing up. The second pic is taken from the extreme other side.

Notice in BOTH pics the dot is aiming at the exact same point, just shy of the crack between the 4th and 5th slats to the right of the post. Same POA.

Now, you MIGHT start saying how they appear to be 1/2" off or something. WHO CARES! It's a tactical aiming device for shooting PEOPLE up close and personal QUICKLY! If the POA shifts 1/2" either way, who cares?

Link Posted: 4/5/2006 2:26:12 PM EDT
your camera has ONE "eye" and you have TWO. Coincidentally, the Aimpoint and Eotech are meant to be fired by people with two eyes and not pirates.

What part of this aren't you guys getting?

There's a self-proclaimed scope expert here at the office and he's scoffed at both my Aimpoint and my Eotech thinking they both exhibit tons of parallax problems. I'll tell you what- the dumb fucker had both eyes closed when he looked through both optics...

The parallax is very very very minimal at their intended ranges.

The Eotechs reticle and lens is made so that if any area of the lens is obstructed, you can shift your head and get the reticle to appear in a clear portion of the window and still use it very well.

If you are testing parallax in your bedroom or backyard and you think you've found parallax, then what you think you know about parallax just isn't true.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 2:26:31 PM EDT
Wholly crap... it's a reflex sight , not a sniper rifle. Put the dot on the target and press..... if you not missing your tgt your good, if your trying to split dimes at 100 yds.... you bought the wrong sight.......

And most are shooting Ammo that already has a 1-2MOA rd to rd dispersion already in it.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 2:31:41 PM EDT
wow
didn't realize the eotech did that

just makes me want one even more
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 2:47:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
your camera has ONE "eye" and you have TWO. Coincidentally, the Aimpoint and Eotech are meant to be fired by people with two eyes and not pirates.

What part of this aren't you guys getting?

There's a self-proclaimed scope expert here at the office and he's scoffed at both my Aimpoint and my Eotech thinking they both exhibit tons of parallax problems. I'll tell you what- the dumb fucker had both eyes closed when he looked through both optics...

The parallax is very very very minimal at their intended ranges.

The Eotechs reticle and lens is made so that if any area of the lens is obstructed, you can shift your head and get the reticle to appear in a clear portion of the window and still use it very well.

If you are testing parallax in your bedroom or backyard and you think you've found parallax, then what you think you know about parallax just isn't true.



Ummm... I'm on YOUR side, dude. Look at the pics! You move around your "eye" and the dot stays in the same spot.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 2:52:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/5/2006 3:01:03 PM EDT by JosephR]
sorry. I "skimmed! I didn't count the fence slats...

I've seen guys take similar pictures to prove otherwise...

Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:27:02 PM EDT
How should I zero in my Eotec?


Don't slam me, just wanna know whats the easiest and best way.(For 25 yards or less, if that matters at all?)


Thanks everyone

Travis
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:32:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TravisJ1:
How should I zero in my Eotec?


Don't slam me, just wanna know whats the easiest and best way.(For 25 yards or less, if that matters at all?)


Thanks everyone

Travis



The 50/200 yard zero is best. This will give you nice flat trajectory that's +/- 2" to about 250 yards.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:38:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Yojimbo:

Originally Posted By TravisJ1:
How should I zero in my Eotec?


Don't slam me, just wanna know whats the easiest and best way.(For 25 yards or less, if that matters at all?)


Thanks everyone

Travis



The 50/200 yard zero is best. This will give you nice flat trajectory that's +/- 2" to about 250 yards.




Explain please.

Are you saying zero it at 50 yards and 200 yards? Sorry I don't mean to sound stupid but I don't understand.

Also, 50/200 would make it good for 25 yards or less?

As you can tell I am very confused!

Thanks,

Travis
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 3:45:25 PM EDT
TravisJ1,

A 50 yard zero is also a 200 yard zero. Zero in at 50 but also verify it at longer distances to confirm how your ammo shoots.

Yes, the 50 yard zero is excellent for 25 yards or less.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 4:04:17 PM EDT
Back to basics.... and the original post......

Why WOULDN'T you pay attention to cheek weld.

Optics aren't so that you can get lazy. Consistancy will help your accuracy even if not required for the sight. That's why you practice, to establish consistancy in anything that you can control. Sight picture, hand position, reload and clearing techniques, shoulder mount, finger position on trigger, etc.....
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 4:17:30 PM EDT
Yojimbo,

Thanks, I understand know!


Travis
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 4:20:20 PM EDT
We zero ours at 50 yards. While I always try to use a check weld for accuracy and consistancy in a combat situation it won't happen. The Eotech and Aimpoint do exactly what they are designed to do. Quick target acquisition. If the dot is on the shot will also be on. Both eyes open.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 4:27:46 PM EDT
Well to get back to the basics, no cheek weld is not as important regarding a red dot sight, as opposed to a traditional scope. While I don’t generally test my AIMPOINT in my bathroom, or kitchen, I have tested it extensively at the range. During rifle quals, we are required to shoot from several positions at ranges from 15 to 100 yards. Some of the firing positions make it nearly impossible (or at least extremely difficult) to get a cheek weld. In fact many of my fellow officers, who have iron sights find it difficult to get any meaningful sight picture. Those with red dot sights (EOTECH or AIMPOINT, they both work equally as well) have a huge advantage, as the shooter only has to see the red dot and place it on the target, in order to get hits. One course of fire requires the shooter to shoot through a 3x5 inch cut in a plywood board, at ground level, at a range of 25 yards. I found it easiest to turn my weapon on it side, while I lay on my stomach, with the butt of my rifle at about nipple level on my chest, and support the front of the rifle with my left fist balled up. In this position my cheek is nowhere near a proper cheek weld. All I had to do was locate the red dot, which was in the upper ¼ of my objective, place it on the target and bingo… perfect hits.
MB
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 6:06:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Yojimbo:
TravisJ1,

A 50 yard zero is also a 200 yard zero. Zero in at 50 but also verify it at longer distances to confirm how your ammo shoots.

Yes, the 50 yard zero is excellent for 25 yards or less.


What he's saying is, the bullet will go up to the point of 50 yarts, and the trajectory will put your POI a little high at 100, and back at the same POI at 200 yards.

Your sights are higher than the barrel, so it will have to go up to hit the point where you're aiming. When it gets to 50 yards, it continues to go higher, until it hits around 100 yards, then it starts to decend, and will end in about the same place at the 200 yard mark as where it was at the 50 yard mark. Then, it'll drop down as it goes further out.
Link Posted: 4/5/2006 8:14:57 PM EDT
So in reality my bullet would actually hit higher at 100 yards than it would at 50?
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:26:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4A1OwnsYou:
So in reality my bullet would actually hit higher at 100 yards than it would at 50?



With a 50yd zero; Yes.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 4/6/2006 7:31:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By M4A1OwnsYou:
So in reality my bullet would actually hit higher at 100 yards than it would at 50?



See link below for more info...

www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=173
Top Top