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Posted: 4/3/2006 4:15:17 AM EDT
Is it a waste to only install the butt stock weight with out installing the hand guard weight? Is the rifle that out of balance?
Also, is this futile work considering I only have the stock trigger and 20" target barrel?
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:37:48 AM EDT
If you have a National Match or "DCM" type rifle with the extra heavy barrel and a free float tube it is definitely a good idea to add the buttstock weight. I never saw the need for handguard weight and I used the lead shot in a bad trick instead of the solid weight you can buy.

What kind of rifle/setup do you actually have?

Bill D
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:50:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 4:52:50 AM EDT by Super_Duty_John]
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:22:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 1:52:33 PM EDT
I think it might help improve accuracy. I realize it's not the to do all barrel but the lead weights are relatively cheap and may help on a bench rest...
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:24:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:28:32 PM EDT
It takes a 12 pound or so rifle to settle down in offhand. If you shoot HighPower then get a weight. for everyday use I see no need.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:16:14 PM EDT
Good advice from two guys that know their stuff.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:25:23 PM EDT
If you use the stock weight whole without trimming a lot off, the rifle will not be properly balanced. With a heavy barrel and no weight under the guards if you fill the stock with as many pennies (inside a zip-lock sandwhich bag) as you can get inside, around 3.00 worth if I remember correctly, the rifle will balance perfect. Later if you add weight under the guards (you probably will want to) you can then replace the pennies with some lead. My rifle has as many .45 cal 230 gr lead round nose pistol bullets as I can get in, in the stock and a full cuff under the guards.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 4:56:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forward_Assist:
If you use the stock weight whole without trimming a lot off, the rifle will not be properly balanced. With a heavy barrel and no weight under the guards if you fill the stock with as many pennies (inside a zip-lock sandwhich bag) as you can get inside, around 3.00 worth if I remember correctly, the rifle will balance perfect. Later if you add weight under the guards (you probably will want to) you can then replace the pennies with some lead. My rifle has as many .45 cal 230 gr lead round nose pistol bullets as I can get in, in the stock and a full cuff under the guards.



Thanks, I'll try that. Sounds reasonable and obviously I'll practice. Why not, it's fun anyway!

I love the groups I'm getting now and I've just begun to practice with it in the last two weeks I've owned it.
I've wanted this rifle since I qualified expert in the Marine Corps back in 1980. Feels good to have another in my hands.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:27:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
It takes a 12 pound or so rifle to settle down in offhand. If you shoot HighPower then get a weight. for everyday use I see no need.



This is the correct response. The buttstock weight is only necessary if you have the hand guard weight in to counter balance the rifle and will only help you in high power competition. The only thing that adding weight to a bench gun is reduce the felt recoil to some degree and with an AR that typically isnt an issue.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:29:01 PM EDT
more info here: www.md-supplies.com/
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:34:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2006 5:34:29 PM EDT by texashark]

Originally Posted By RatSass:
I used the lead shot in a bad trick instead of the solid weight you can buy.
Bill D



Me too. Take a small plastic sandwich bag, and put it in the cavity. Pour it full and tie it with a twist tie. Press the stock shut and you're good to go for $.50 worth of shot.
I've used mine for 10 years.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:41:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrMurphy:

Originally Posted By DanishM1Garand:
It takes a 12 pound or so rifle to settle down in offhand. If you shoot HighPower then get a weight. for everyday use I see no need.



This is the correct response. The buttstock weight is only necessary if you have the hand guard weight in to counter balance the rifle and will only help you in high power competition. The only thing that adding weight to a bench gun is reduce the felt recoil to some degree and with an AR that typically isnt an issue.




I've shot one with both weights in and it was like shooting a rim fire. I think that's an advantage.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:44:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warren-hpf:
more info here: www.md-supplies.com/



Thanks for the link! Great site.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:49:35 PM EDT
Super_Duty...

Your original question actually addressed two things..... weight AND balance.

You're right, pure weight will help benchrest performance (some of the BR guys at my range are shooting HEAVY rifles) but at a cost.
The post by "Danish" is right as well.... My HP Service rifle weighs in at about 12.5 lbs and the positive aspects are most noticable shooting offhand.

The main reason that people use butt stock weight is, as mentioned, to balance against the weight of the heavier barrel configuration and the free float tube under the handguards. Balance is a personal preference. For me, and my positions, I've found I like it balanced at the delta ring. Though heavy, it is balanced, and "pivots" well the way I hold it during offhand.

A little tip: Stick on wheel weights work great. I use them to line the handguards and they haven't come loose. Start with just the lower handguard, and if you feel you need more, you can add them to the upper handguard as well. I also have them stuffed in the butt stock. They're cheap, no shipping of a "custom molded" piece of lead, and you can get them at any good auto parts store. See if they'll sell you a half box to start.

You're right, it's the practice and experimentation that gets to be the fun part. Good luck. Let us know how it turns out.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 5:57:15 PM EDT
I have only the butt stock weight in my Bushmaster. I have the stainless heavy barrel and I have a RRA float tube with the factory hand guards. I feel no need to buy the handguard weight for off hand shooting. It is easier to buy something later than try and sell it when you find out that you do not really need it.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 6:57:45 PM EDT
Super_Duty_John

You mention qualifying Expert in the US Marines; you should try finding a local club that hold highpower matches. The season is just starting and I'm sure there are a plenty of shooters in your area who are willing to get a "new" shooter started. Or you may be able to find a highpower clinic. Either way, you can get a start with your rifle as is, and upgrade as you go. I think you will find getting off the bench and back into position shooting and marksmanship challenging and exciting. It's also a really good excuse to do a lot of shooting.
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 5:25:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By warren-hpf:
Super_Duty_John

You mention qualifying Expert in the US Marines; you should try finding a local club that hold high power matches. The season is just starting and I'm sure there are a plenty of shooters in your area who are willing to get a "new" shooter started. Or you may be able to find a high power clinic. Either way, you can get a start with your rifle as is, and upgrade as you go. I think you will find getting off the bench and back into position shooting and marksmanship challenging and exciting. It's also a really good excuse to do a lot of shooting.



I'm really getting involved at my local Range lately. My wife and I bought a Browning Sweet Sixteen A-5 in 1990 and left it in the box for my daughters 16th birthday. Well we gave it to her and our range has a full clay section and since we were going a bunch of times....I explained to my wife how I really should finally get my AR ;) Her brother (also a Marine from the '80's) has coached me into exactly what I should get as he's really involved up in the Northwest NJ. High Power Matches and shoots in a service club as well.
I'm also an NRA Life Member and immediately started looking for the NRA sponsored/sanctioned High Power Shoots. In Florida believe it or not, we have a real shortage of long distance ranges, especially in south Florida. Our Range is 'only' 200 yards. I notified the NRA about a shortage of events down here and they are sending me all the stuff to set up an NRA sanctioned High Power 'Modified" match here, my local (County operated) Range is all for it. One of my buddies is a retired Police Sergeant with NRA Certs in Instruction and I'm recruiting him to help out. Although he doesn't know it yet but I'm sure he will so....practice, practice and more practice, we'd love to go to Camp Perry :)
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 9:29:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Super_Duty_John:

Originally Posted By warren-hpf:
Super_Duty_John

You mention qualifying Expert in the US Marines; you should try finding a local club that hold high power matches. The season is just starting and I'm sure there are a plenty of shooters in your area who are willing to get a "new" shooter started. Or you may be able to find a high power clinic. Either way, you can get a start with your rifle as is, and upgrade as you go. I think you will find getting off the bench and back into position shooting and marksmanship challenging and exciting. It's also a really good excuse to do a lot of shooting.



I'm really getting involved at my local Range lately. My wife and I bought a Browning Sweet Sixteen A-5 in 1990 and left it in the box for my daughters 16th birthday. Well we gave it to her and our range has a full clay section and since we were going a bunch of times....I explained to my wife how I really should finally get my AR ;) Her brother (also a Marine from the '80's) has coached me into exactly what I should get as he's really involved up in the Northwest NJ. High Power Matches and shoots in a service club as well.
I'm also an NRA Life Member and immediately started looking for the NRA sponsored/sanctioned High Power Shoots. In Florida believe it or not, we have a real shortage of long distance ranges, especially in south Florida. Our Range is 'only' 200 yards. I notified the NRA about a shortage of events down here and they are sending me all the stuff to set up an NRA sanctioned High Power 'Modified" match here, my local (County operated) Range is all for it. One of my buddies is a retired Police Sergeant with NRA Certs in Instruction and I'm recruiting him to help out. Although he doesn't know it yet but I'm sure he will so....practice, practice and more practice, we'd love to go to Camp Perry :)



Wow, that is how you take initiative. Thank you for being a great American! Looks like we'll be seeing you at Camp Perry soon!
Link Posted: 4/4/2006 2:40:08 PM EDT
Well I think I need a few thousand more rounds and a slightly better rife for Camp Perry but, we can dream...
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