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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:26:16 PM EDT
 RELENTLESS RELIABILITY POF-USA is proud to introduce a 3.375" long oversized heat sink barrel nut and a silicon nickel plated upper receiver as options (patent pending). Our gas piston weapon system operates Cooler and does not require Oil or Lubricant.  We are the only AR-15/M-16 manufacturer to offer these features! When designing this system, our first priority was to eliminate heat. Our gas piston weapon system design is strong and rigid which helps to eliminate flex in the flat top receiver. As a standard feature on our gas piston weapon system, each part of the operating system is hard chrome plated which makes it easy to clean and maintain. Our barrel designs reduce heat and weight. Our patented oversized barrel nut design provides strength and rigidity and works as a heat sink. Visit our website: Patriot Ordnance Factory  P-415-13-P12SX-CF-223 (.223 cal.) 13.6" "Tactical Recon", Gas Piston Weapon System with Predator P-12SX (slim version) rail, Raptor Bi-pod, Troy Ind. flip up sites and the AWESOME Elcan "DR" 1x to 4x optic.  Picture taken by SMGLEE @ SAR 2005 in Phoenix. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 10:07:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Are upper receivers only also available for sale? Price?
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Posted: 3/30/2006 10:18:39 PM EDT
[#2]
Uppers and complete rifles are available now with these features. Please visit our website at: www.POF-USA.com  P-415-16-P12SX-CF-223 (.223 CAL / 5.56MM) "RECON" 16" GAS PISTON WEAPON SYSTEM, TRIJICON 4X SITE, TROY IND. FLIP UP SITES, VORTEC FLASH HIDER, P-12SX PREDATOR (SLIM VERSION) TACTICAL RAIL, TANGO DOWN GRIP, "PRS" MAGPUL, RAPTOR BI-POD, STERLING 40 RD. MAGAZINE. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 10:44:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Are you going to be selling the silicon nickel plated upper receivers? As in just the receiver, no bolt, barrel etc.
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Posted: 3/30/2006 11:35:45 PM EDT
[#4]
Is this not the exact same gas piston upper that you have been selling for a while now? New news?
-jls7 |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 11:47:03 PM EDT
[#5]
 When the M16 was introduced, it was claimed that it required no cleaning or lubrication. We all know how that worked out. From TBR, pg 87, yes really 87, 1962 Colt AR-15 manual:
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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:03:47 AM EDT
[#6]
+1 |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 1:36:55 AM EDT
[#7]
I have to admit that I am a real fan of POF's products BUT this is a tough one to understand: NO LUBRICATION???
I guess I need to research "silicon nickel plating". It must be slippery stuff. I know that the hard-chromed bolt carrier is slippery smooth but I still lube it. I definitely understand why the gas system requires no lubrication. It appears to be designed so that the tappet "rides on a cushion of air" down the gas tube. It is a very interesting design. I am going to enjoy trying to break it. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 1:53:47 AM EDT
[#8]
How does this new material w/Patent Pending, compare to the one Colt has adopted (or purchased rights to)?
IIRC, they make similar claims about their product which included nickel in its' composition. And BTW, if your product performance achieves even half the claim -- it will be a very big winner Congratulations!!! |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 3:11:35 AM EDT
[#9]
We may offer the upper receiver forsale if their is interest.  Best regards. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 3:24:18 AM EDT
[#10]
It is our gas piston upper but with MORE enchancements/upgrades. We are the only AR15/M16 weapon system to have and offer a Heat Sink Barrel nut. This is a very effective way to eliminate Heat from the barrel. It also provides strength and rigidity to the barreled upper. Our entire gas piston operating system is hard chrome plated STANDARD (C.R.O.S.). Now with the addition of the silicon nockel plating of the charging handle and upper receiver (interior only), the weapon /operating system doesn't require Oil or Lube. You can still use oil/lube if you elect too. Our gas piston weapon system eliminate Heat and Carbon from the bolt carrier assemble and upper receiver, shoot steel cased ammo, operate at reduced heat having fluted barrels and Oversized Heat Sink Barrel Nuts, and and don't require oil or lube. Best regards, |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 3:40:57 AM EDT
[#11]
Sounds pretty cool. After cleaning my carbine after some serious range time this part weekend, it would be nice to puch the bore and wipe off a few parts. Looking foward to hearing some first hand experiences.
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Posted: 3/31/2006 4:32:24 AM EDT
[#12]
Coincidence? I think not! |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 4:36:16 AM EDT
[#13]
When are they going to be available in .308 ? |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 5:13:38 AM EDT
[#14]
Thanks Frank for bringing out new US designed and made products
 I think folks here will be more inclined to believe the hard-to-believe claims if you have test data to back them up. I wonder about the necessity of a barrel nut/chamber heat sink though. Does a barrel in the first two inches heat up more rapidly than other parts? How about heat in the rest of the barrel? Or does the barrel nut have to be that size, which then also, as a fringe benefit, acts like a heat sink? |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 6:02:11 AM EDT
[#15]
How much does the new and improved barrel nut weigh?
It looks to be a solid and well-machined addition, but weight is a concern. Thanks for any information! BTW, the slim predator forend is a great idea. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 6:08:33 AM EDT
[#16]
How's the heat transfer to your hand when using a mag-well hold with this system? I note that there is a solid "collar" before the heat ribs that might mitigate heat somewhat but it's also the closest part to the chamber...
FWIW I think it's great that you and other companies are coming up with new, innovative products to improve the AR platform. But I'd still oil it.
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Posted: 3/31/2006 8:08:24 AM EDT
[#17]
What is the EXACT material the receiver is lined in? Is it electroless nickle impregnated with silicon carbide or something different? Silicon nickle is a bit vague. If it is lined with electroless nickle silicon carbide the coefficient of friction and wear characteristics blow hard chrome away and its more corrosion resistant to boot. I have an electroless nickle silicon carbide plated bolt already and if you will sell me a receiver please give me a price and direct me to a place to order the upper only, no barrel, but with forward assist and dust cover installed. The upper has M4 feed ramps I assume?
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Posted: 3/31/2006 8:58:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Man I remember back what 2-3 years ago when POF posted his piston upper here on ARFCOM and nearly everyone about bludgeoned Frank to death over his upper. It was new and it scared folks I suppose. Funny how things work out.
I dont own one but have heard good reviews. Regardless of that three cheers for US drive and ingenuity. Thank Heaven there are people still willing to compete in the market. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 9:35:45 AM EDT
[#19]
I have to admit that I am a pessimist. Fortunately for me, I am also an experimenter. I love trying new things. I have usually found that when something sounds too good to be true, it usually is; BUT there are those rare occasions when something turns out to be as good as advertised.
Frank's products have been those rare occasions. I love my POF gas-piston rifle. I love the Predator rail system he designed, and have you seen his new quick release bi-pod. This guy has more tricks than Houdini!!! Keep em coming Frank. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 10:06:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Nice. Keep innovating.
Low heat conductivity and frictionless coatings can do wonders for firearms once the process is perfected |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 10:28:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Off to Google wtf silicon nickel plated is
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Posted: 3/31/2006 10:32:39 AM EDT
[#22]
I admire the direction you have been headed with your mods and designs, this sounds like another good step forward in the weapon system that has been, and will continue to be around for a long time.
I would also like to see larger, clearer pics... 
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Posted: 3/31/2006 3:10:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Dear Frank/Chris , the question many people would like to know? when will the POF piston .308 be ready and how much for the fun awww I mean gun?
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Posted: 3/31/2006 8:26:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Thank you. Never heard or seen any options offered by Colt that allows their weapon system to operate without oil/lube. You would think they would have displayed this at the Shot Show. Our entire gas piston operating system is hard chrome plated and now our charging handle/ upper receivers have a silicon nickel interior (think of a harden metal sleeve in the interior of the upper receiver), while maintaining the mil-spec anodize on the outside of the upper receiver/charging handle. Best regards |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 8:29:25 PM EDT
[#25]
Thank You!
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Posted: 3/31/2006 8:41:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Thank you. We try our best to manufacture a Quality product. Best regards, Patriot Ordnance Factory  P-415-11-P9SX-SF-223 "TACTICAL CAMMANDO", 11.5" GAS PISTON WEAPON SYSTEM, PREDATOR P-9SX (slim version) TACTICALl RAIL, FTA-2005 HOODED FRONT SITE, TROY IND. FLIP UP REAR SITE, VORTEC FLASH HIDER, TANGO DOWN GRIP, 6 POSITION RETRACTABLE VLTOR STOCK W/ MIL-SPEC TUBE, SOG BUTT PAD. |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 2:30:20 AM EDT
[#27]
Here is an announcement of the Colt/UCT technology It is worth noting that you have a product that includes integration of heat resistance and friction fighting elements.......and is in use now. This could be big |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 3:40:19 AM EDT
[#28]
How long until the slim rail system hits the market?
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Posted: 4/1/2006 6:24:29 AM EDT
[#29]
Wreakdiver's post reminded me of something:
When I was originally researching POF's gas piston upper I came across a reviewer who had wonderful things to say about the gas system but thought the Predator rail system with the full length rails on all four sides was too wide. I had just about decided to order the model with the M4 plastic hand guards. The gentlemen I placed the order with at POF convinced me that I should try the Predator for my self. I am glad I did! The Predator came with the thin "ladder rail" covers and it fits my medium sized hands perfectly. I like the option of the slimmer rail but I think I am going to stick with the standard rail for my second POF rifle. The reviewer must have had very small hands. Now I still have to admit that I would like to see Frank come up with a slimmer barrel nut so we can have the option of using the A.R.M.S. SIR system with his gas piston upper. I love options. Until he does, I will use and enjoy the Predator rail system. |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 6:39:20 AM EDT
[#30]
Thanks for the info. As far as coatings to eliminate the need for lube we have done this with our product from day one. Our entire gas piston operating system is hard chrome plated including the Gas Block. As of last year we have upgraded our upper receiver (interior only), to include these features. Best regards Patriot ordnance Factory |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 6:49:20 AM EDT
[#31]
They are available now. We currently offer 2 models: P-12SX: Predator (full lenght) slim version tactical rail. P-9SX: Predator (Mid lenght) slim version tactical rail. Our Predator "SX" tactical rail systems include the urethane sprayed texture to protect your hand from heat and work great with use of tactical gloves. Best regards, Patriot Ordnance Factory |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 7:13:43 AM EDT
[#32]
Our Oversized Heat Sink Barrel Nut weighs 3 oz. more then our current barrel nut.  The complete 18" "SPR" gas piston upper without front & rear flip up sights weighs: 5 lbs. 7 oz. The same 18" "SPR" gas piston upper with Troy Ind. flip up front & rear sights weighs: 5 lbs 10 oz.  P-415-18-P12SX-CF-223 (.223 cal. / 5.56mm) 18" "SPR" GAS PISTON WEAPON SYSTEM, TRIJICON 4X OPTIC, TROY IND. FLIP UP SITES, VORTEC FLASH HIDER., P-12SX PREDATOR (SLIM VERSION) TACTICAL RAIL, TANGO DOWN GRIP, "PRS" MAGPUL STOCK, RAPTOR BI-POD, STERLING 40 RD. MAGAZINE. Best regards, Patriot Ordnance Factory |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 8:08:12 AM EDT
[#33]
They did display it at the Shot Show. That is where I saw it. |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 8:09:36 AM EDT
[#34]
It seems from this last message you are saying that hard-chrome eliminates the need for lube. That is not something I have seen others say before, so did you mean to say some other coating? Or did you really mean hard-chrome? |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 8:15:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Interesting. I would be interested to see how the plating holds up. I have never been too keen about plating on aluminum, then again never been too keen about the steel bolt carrier in the aluminum receiver to begin with.
Kudos for trying something new. |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 8:43:37 AM EDT
[#36]
I wonder if the silicon nickle coating has been tested in extreme cold? Extreme cold can play hell with all kinds of metal parts.
John P.S. Being from Minnesota, I'm just askin' . . . 
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Posted: 4/1/2006 8:46:03 AM EDT
[#37]
I think we are at the point where we can do a lubeless gun, or nearly so. In 20 years it will be common, and someone has already figured it out but we will be slow to trust them. So it is here now if we just learn which process we should believe in.
POF needs to do a dual (200 round) Beta-mag dump in full auto with temp probes embedded in the receiver -- and compare this to a normal gun with oil. When I see that data, if it looks fine (compared to a gun with lube), I will be all over it. |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 5:31:50 PM EDT
[#38]
It works well. We did a military demo two days after the Shot Show with the weapon system pictured with our new slim version of the Predator mid-length rail: P-9SX. The commander shot (10) 30 round mags and a bets "c" drum mag. (400 rounds), in full auto with NO gloves. It was very warm, bordering on hot after 400 rounds fired in full auto. P-415-11-P9SX-SF-223 "TACTICAL CAMMANDO", 11.5" GAS PISTON WEAPON SYSTEM, FTA-2005 HOODED FRONT SITE, TROY IND. FLIP UP REAR SITE, VORTEC FLASH HIDER, TANGO DOWN GRIP, 6 POSITION RETRACTABLE VLTOR STOCK W/ MIL-SPEC TUBE, SOG BUTT PAD. Our "Patented" over sized barrel nut design provides strength, rigidity,and works as a heat sink to reduce heat. Hope these pictures help. Best regards, Patriot Ordnance Factory PS: OIL / LUBE is your choice, but not required with the addition of silicon nickel plated receiver and charging handle. |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 5:53:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Thanks. We try our best to engineer & manufacture a Quality product, but will continue to improve our products at all times. Change is good. Think out of the Box. Best regards, Patriot Ordnance Factory "RELIABILITY FIRST" POF-USA is proud to introduce a 3.375" long oversized heat sink barrel nut and a silicon nickel plated upper receiver as options (patent pending). Our gas piston weapon system operates cooler and does not require oil or lubricant. We are the only AR-15/M-16 manufacturer to offer these features! When designing this system, our first priority was to eliminate heat. Our gas piston weapon system design is strong and rigid which helps to eliminate flex in the flat top receiver. As a standard feature on our gas piston weapon system, each part of the operating system is hard chrome plated which makes it easy to clean and maintain. Our barrel designs reduce heat and weight. Our patented oversized barrel nut design provides strength and rigidity and works as a heat sink. |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 7:03:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Frank is always pulling these things apart at the local matches and showing us how they don't have any lube in them....and we see they go bang whenever the trigger is pulled. The coating also looks like it makes things easier to clean if nothing else.
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Posted: 4/1/2006 7:58:35 PM EDT
[#41]
how can I find out the prices on your complete rifles...they arent listed on your site?
eta: who manufatures your lower receivers,it looks like LMT? |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 8:00:15 PM EDT
[#42]
What about Robar NP3 as a lubeless coating?
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Posted: 4/1/2006 11:28:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Thank you. We aspire to make the M-16/AR-15 weapon system the most reliable tactical weapon system. We hope to add more pic's soon. Best regards, Patriot Ordnance Factory salute  (PUT AMERICA FIRST!) |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 11:33:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Thanks for the inquiry. Please be patient. They will be available in the near future. We will let all know when they are avaiable. We will have pricing until we let all know we are taling orders. Best regards salute AMERICA FIRST |
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Posted: 4/1/2006 11:44:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Frank, that is freaking sweet! When you get the .308's produced, I'm going to have to pick one up. BTW, if you get 5 or 10 minutes of free time, call me at 409-622-9319 and leave your cell number on my voicemail. I came across some neat coatings that you might be interested in. I can hook you up with contact info, and give some details. |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 1:20:12 AM EDT
[#46]
Not LMT.... I dunno if they want anyone to say... But their lowers are really nice. ;) |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 1:44:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Ok, it's been a few. Hurry up already! Please make it compatible with the AR10..... 
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Posted: 4/2/2006 3:13:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Are there any plans to make a 20"? Or will the 18" be as big they get?
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Posted: 4/2/2006 6:42:26 AM EDT
[#49]
Thanks. I was talking with Art Dagile (Colt engineer), at their booth but he never mention the coating. He talk about their new piston weapon. salute AMERICA FIRST |
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Posted: 4/2/2006 11:34:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Their is no need to lube the gas piston. The gas block with tube is hard chrome plated and the gas piston is hard chrome plated. No lube required for the gas piston section of the operating system. With the addition of the plating of the upper receiver and charging handle (interior only), lube is not required. You can lube all items if you wish to but it's not required. Chrome and nickel base plating has been used in the aerospace industry for decades with great sucess. They are great wear resistant processes that allow engines to handle the high heat and high rpm. Best regards salute AMERICA FIRST |
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