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Posted: 3/29/2006 11:06:33 PM EDT
[#1]
I would feel fine, no make that great, with an ar15, no spread like a shotgun but 30 rounds of light kicking ammo and an eotech makes it quite the good gun. Even outside I would want the ar15 compared to a .308, everyone talks up the .308 but it seems like most of the people who actually fight use the 5.56. The 5.56 vs .308 vs whatever else is a very complicated debate, but for now I think that the number of rounds and the speed at which I can move them accurately out of my ar15 makes it a far more capable weapon than any .308 unless we are at very very long ranges.
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Posted: 3/30/2006 2:41:55 AM EDT
[#2]
It's interesting hearing the military guys who have actual experience with this sort of thing support the 5.56. Hey, if it's good enough for them, I'm sure it'll be fine for whatever I need it for.
Based on my experience, any paper plates or metal pepper poppers should think twice before they try and invade my home  .
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Posted: 3/30/2006 3:32:23 AM EDT
[#3]
Yes |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 5:04:56 AM EDT
[#4]
+1 brother what kind of question is that to post here on this forum ??? . . . . . all of us own an AR. . . . go post it on the AK site lol! |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 6:02:05 AM EDT
[#5]
+1 |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 6:10:28 AM EDT
[#6]
+100 I think that unless you are looking to engage at more than +/- 100 yds. with open fields, sparsely populated, there isn't a compelling reason to use a rifle round greater than 5.56mm (M193 is my choice). The thought of squeezing off multiple rounds of 147gr or greater 7.62mm with people and buildings nearby makes me shudder. Too much liability. Heck, if it's all-out war with heavily armed and armored enemies, then all bets are off, but I don't find myself ever being there - I'm just a citizen. My carbine is so light, accurate and reliable that I would feel confident in 99% of all indoor and outdoor DEFENSIVE scenarios... Humans and harmful pests don't stand a chance with that Aimpoint mounted - unless they get the drop on me first - which is the real uncertain variable here. This cannot be overstated. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 6:10:32 AM EDT
[#7]
You guys need to do some tactical training with your pups. Mine is ready to rock and roll.
 No. the rifle is no longer in that configuration, I was new to the AR at that time and had no idea what I was doing. And to answer the original question... I feel that my AR and my "GO TO" ammo can would keep me in good shape. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 6:21:12 AM EDT
[#8]
No I would not feel undergunned with an AR.
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Posted: 3/30/2006 6:32:57 AM EDT
[#10]
I would feel insecure. But not because of the rifle. The idea of a murder running loose in the neighborhood would make me insecure. The idea of a bunch of nervous cops running around would too. I can't think of a civilian legal weapon I'd rather have than my Bushmaster. But to think I'd ever feel secure with the prospect of an immanent gunfight is nuts.
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Posted: 3/30/2006 6:35:13 AM EDT
[#11]
My pup already has 3 confirmed kills.
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Posted: 3/30/2006 6:38:29 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 3/30/2006 6:38:55 AM EDT
[#13]
QFT Being prepared to defend yourself and having the training/confidence to do so is a good thing. The "dude, I WISH a band of thugs would bust through my door so I could ..." reeks of armchair commando wannabeism and is completely retarded. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 6:51:57 AM EDT
[#14]
I hear you amigo. . .
nothing is better than a cool head in a crisis situation. You can defend yourself with your marlin 22 if you have a cool head about it. . . . . you can miss an easy shot with a grenade if you are panicking and are scared. IMHO of course. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 7:16:11 AM EDT
[#15]
If I didn't feel comfortable with the possibility of using it for defense, I'd never have bought the thing.
Maybe if the dude had some A-Team, welded up armored car or something then I might feel a bit underpowered. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 7:44:08 AM EDT
[#16]
AR15 in 5.56 with beta mag and eotech makes me feel very secure and overgunned.
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Posted: 3/30/2006 7:50:58 AM EDT
[#17]
+1 He might be "considered" armed and dangerous, but I WILL be armed and dangerous. WIZZO |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 8:12:25 AM EDT
[#18]
I wouldnt feel undergunned with an AR15!
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Posted: 3/30/2006 8:14:58 AM EDT
[#19]
It's about shot placement. .22 is effective...........if you shoot him in the eye!
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Posted: 3/30/2006 8:36:34 AM EDT
[#20]
I NEVER WOULD WISH IT TO COME TRUE!!
Thats 187 !! I do feel Safe at my home. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:09:18 AM EDT
[#21]
Fuck yeah! |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:13:26 AM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:18:33 AM EDT
[#23]
it's sad but very true +2 |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:25:14 AM EDT
[#24]
lol that's a dog???Just kidding. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:39:39 AM EDT
[#25]
YES! |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:47:35 AM EDT
[#26]
Undergunned?
No. Likely to have it handy... Driving down the street? No. Shopping in a store? No. Eating at a restaurant? No. At a movie? No. Lying in bed? No. Sitting in front of the TV watching a war movie? Possibly. Get the point? In MY day to day activities, an AR or any other long gun is not likely to be either in immediate reach, or practical. Of course I suppose one COULD sit on the toilet, with it slung at chest ready, in case of a Home Invasion. I do not seriously envision a scenario, that I am likely to be involved in, that would involve the immediate response to be an AR. As always, YMMV.  Lonny |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:53:40 AM EDT
[#27]
On this site it should be like this:
Wanted cop-killing felon is believed by LE to be located in an area where people that are regulars on the AR15.com website live. Subject is considered armed and dangerous and have posted this on AR15.com. Police are concerned this subject may try to take a hostage and/or a vechile with a hostage. How long should the police leave the neighborhood, and where should they advise the body be dumped?  |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:53:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Would I feel undergunned with an AR (or other quality 5.56 weapon) in that situation? No.
Would it be my first choice? No - that's what the AR10 is for. 
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:56:28 AM EDT
[#29]
Undergunned - I am conditioning myself to the "NO" answer. I was brainwashed by my dad who might as well be a Jeff Cooper clone.
First choice? Probably not. But if I had to bugout it would be my first choice because my wife would be using an M4gery. Parts/ammo commonality and all that. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 10:03:51 AM EDT
[#30]
I always figured my M4 was for close in work, along with my 870 and .45 1911, for long distance I plan to use my Garand. Heavier rounds less of a capacity but I feel more effective at longer distances.
Alvin
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Posted: 3/30/2006 11:05:47 AM EDT
[#31]
If he's entering my home, I'd feel safer with 7 rounds of 00buck in my 870, with my Glock 23 at my side.
Like some said earlier, my AR is for Katrina type events. That's how I feel about it. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 11:22:34 AM EDT
[#32]
An ar can come in handy for precision work inside your house where your children can be used as potential hostages or human shileds. A shotgun would not be the best choice in such a scenario.
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Posted: 3/30/2006 11:26:12 AM EDT
[#33]
I believe the thing you should be worried about is can you hit what you shoot at?
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Posted: 3/30/2006 11:29:47 AM EDT
[#34]
Very good point. Once I do have children (or others in my home to worry about, such as an SO), I will adjust my rules of engagement and choice of weapon. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 11:41:04 AM EDT
[#35]
Undergunned? Absolutely not.
After 14 months in the land of Allah, I am a firm believer in the M16/M4 weapon system. I believe there are two determining factors in a weapons effectiveness: 1. Quality of manufacture 2. The person pulling the trigger. The M16 is well made and proven. It is up to the shooter to refine their skills and develope their ability to effectively use the weapon. An inferior weapon in the hand of an accomplished marksman will ruin the day of a incompetent marksman with a high quality system. stepping off of my soapbox now........  |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 12:35:14 PM EDT
[#36]
I agree with Sgt Sauer.
As for distance, anyone in the infantry can tell you an M16 or M4 can reliably hit individual targets at 300 to 400 meters, every time. At the very least, any trained person can hit targets at 200 meters. If you can't or aren't trained, please keep your vigilanteism inside your own home and leave the streets to professionals. If I was in uniform and you were running around with an AR15, you'd be shot dead. As for penetration, on one occassion, my guys shot three enemies in the cab of a truck with four M4s at 25 meters. 120 rounds went through the front of the truck, into the cab, through the three men, out the back of the cab, into the conex it was pulling, out of the conex it was pulling, into the second conex it was pulling, and finally stopping in the back doors of the second conex. So, overpenetration is a concern - another reason for training and situational awareness. PS If I wasn't wearing a uniform  , I would still grab my 6920 Hello ar15.com-ers, I'm new and probably already pissed everyone off
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Posted: 3/30/2006 7:15:48 PM EDT
[#37]
Wow. What a neat post. Let me start at the top and work my way down. First off, I have my own range in the "back yard" and shoot quite frequently. I could pop your melon at 300 meters, prone, with open sights with any of my AR's, if you'll hold still for a few seconds. Even longer with one of my bolt guns. There are no streets around here, just a few dirt roads. Between us and our neighbors, we own the whole top of the hill. Our lands border state forest, which is where the BG is thought to be holed up. There are very few LEO's in the area. The town doesn't have any LE and relies on the county SO for coverage, and SP backs them up. We are outside of the incorporated area anyway. Quickest 911 response in the area has been 45 minutes. This is part of the reason SP advised us to shoot him on sight, if the opprotunity presented itself. They advised to arm ourselves for any outdoor activity, and don't be outside alone. Keep house and vehicle doors locked, check vehicles prior to entry, etc. We'd be pretty much on our own, and they know it...What kinda rounds were they using that zipped through all that? DU? Isn't the ball supposed to be so great for QCB coz it fragments after impact w/sheetrock? Touted as being less an overpenetration threat than 'most any 9mm... Oh, and I'm just guessing here, but based on your statements, you must be LEO/MIL/SF/GB/SEAL. or something. Thank you for your service. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 8:16:50 PM EDT
[#38]
What would be better than an M4 for that situation? Nothing would be significantly better. I would feel undergunned not because I had only an M4, but because I was alone.
It's not a gear issue its a tactics issue. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 8:24:21 PM EDT
[#39]
I would not feel undergunned.
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:09:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Feeling undergunned? No sir.
Using my AR to protect myself inside my apartment? nope; i got a Mossberg 590A1 for that. |
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Posted: 3/30/2006 9:37:49 PM EDT
[#41]
Sounds as though you've been careful to discuss the practical aspects of your surroundings, and it makes a lot of sense. It's also nice that you've communicated with your local law enforcement and you all understand each other's roles; so more power to you. Marksmanship is only a small part of training, but important, nonetheless, and it sounds like you practice. Also consider target recognition, situational awareness, communication with 911, and the option of removing yourself from the area during a threat. In any case, sounds as though you can't afford to simply wait for 911 when you're at least 45 minutes out. I'm a lot more concerned about neighbors in an urban/sub-urban area covering the streets from their windows and doorsteps...hinking.gif The M4s were all loaded with standard M855 green tips and tracers. Of course, some of those 120 rounds stopped somewhere between the cab of the truck and the last connex, but there was no shortage of bulges in those rear doors. Many rounds certainly did fragment... without going into detail, there were more exit wounds than entrance wounds. And I'm just a normal, everyday, super-human infantry medichank |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 1:00:00 AM EDT
[#42]
Undergunned? Not in the least.
Feel secure using 5.56mm? Absolutely! Ar's are a lot more effective than the majority of people give them credit for. They do damage. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 1:25:10 AM EDT
[#43]
I have that exact same television on that exact same stand. Good taste. :) |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 7:49:01 AM EDT
[#44]
Overpenetration? I was getting ready to clean my AR in my living room and of course had to site down it and pull the trigger. Whoops! FMJ Round still in chamber. Went through my aluminum storm door, through the aluminum siding of my house, through the plaster wall and then into the closet behind that wall, where the jacket exploded into a bunch of pieces and lodged themselves into the frame of doorway of the closet. There one was big piece at the center of the pattern. Reminder and something I will never forget again. When you pick up a gun, rack chamber, check cylinder, all the other good stuff to make sure it is unloaded. This could have been an very expensive lesson. So at least FMJ will penetrate all day. |
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:13:56 AM EDT
[#45]
Under gunned. No.
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Posted: 3/31/2006 11:18:38 AM EDT
[#46]
I'd say yes . silly question
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Posted: 3/31/2006 12:29:20 PM EDT
[#47]
HAHAHAHAHA.............................................................................................yes  Although I would probably grab my .22 just for a challenge! |
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