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Posted: 3/27/2006 1:44:48 PM EDT
Would it be legal to use an M-16 selector switch in an AR-15? The disconector would still be semi-auto AR-15. This allows for the switch to move to the auto position but it would only fire semi-auto. I just think it would be cool. Of course I don’t want any trouble with the law either. Also I remember seeing a thread like this a while back, but can't find it. Thanks, Dave.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:51:34 PM EDT
No.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:06:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 2:07:11 PM EDT by taquito971]
I'll start by saying there is no right answer. While it may or may not be legal, it also won't work. I tried an M16 selector in mine and it is "safe" not "Semi" in the last posistion. I too thought it would be cool to flip it back to my marked Auto lower and shoot semi. No go.

Brian
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:16:51 PM EDT
Hmm, oh well. It would still be cool to have the selection though. Or maybe I can come up with a custom selector to do this then. Either way I still would like to know if it is even worth trying.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:45:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:46:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By taquito971:
I'll start by saying there is no right answer. While it may or may not be legal, it also won't work. I tried an M16 selector in mine and it is "safe" not "Semi" in the last posistion. I too thought it would be cool to flip it back to my marked Auto lower and shoot semi. No go.

Brian




You got a safe at the rear, because the shoulder at the rear of the trigger, that prevents an M16 disconnector from being installed was hit by the shoulder of the selector that holds down the tail of the M16 hammer. Grind off the shoulder on the selector, and you'll aceive what you were after in the first place. You'll also prevent yourself from having to answer questions about having M16 parts in your piece; because once you grind down that shoulder in the middle of the selector, it's no longer an M16 part.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:51:56 PM EDT
It'd be interesting to show your friends. Shoot on semi-auto, then flip the switch and bump fire :)
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:31:53 PM EDT
It is absolutely legal. Stupid but legal.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:52:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
It's only cool if you belong to the poser club.




+1

PS Nobody is gonna know what position your ... "selector".. Excuse me.." Safety".. is in anyway... If you flip it over and you dont have FA.. Isnt it kinda hard to explain?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:53:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pigmy:
It is absolutely legal. Stupid but legal.




No it isnt legal... Be careful what advice you give here..
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:59:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By pigmy:
It is absolutely legal. Stupid but legal.




No it isnt legal...



Why not?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:11:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sWs1:

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By pigmy:
It is absolutely legal. Stupid but legal.




No it isnt legal...



Why not?



If you happen to own M-16 parts and an AR-15, the BATF "could" nail you with intent to construct a machine gun, even though you are missing vital necessities to actually construct a machine gun. The only item I have ever heard of the BATF dancing around was the full-auto carrier. In some cases, I have heard it is allowed. As for actually installing a piece of a full-auto fire control group in your lower receiver, I can see where an agent would have a field day with you.

You have to ask yourself, is it worth spending 10 years of your life in jail? Do you really want to pay an attorney some absurd amount in legal fees to keep your butt out of jail? All this for a "cool factor" to satisfy some "Look at me at the range" syndrome just isn't worth the potential problems you could end up with.

I have run into BATF agents in the strangest places, so don't think that you will not run into one. They hang out at public ranges, bars, and all night gas stations that sell liquor.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:06:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sWs1:

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By pigmy:
It is absolutely legal. Stupid but legal.




No it isnt legal...



Why not?



Because it will get you put in jail... And you hve no reason to have it installed in your lower.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:21:09 PM EDT
Only two M16 parts truly worth installing in an AR15 are: bolt carrier, and "de-tabbed" hammer.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:29:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunz4me:

Originally Posted By sWs1:

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By pigmy:
It is absolutely legal. Stupid but legal.




No it isnt legal...



Why not?



If you happen to own M-16 parts and an AR-15, the BATF "could" nail you with intent to construct a machine gun, even though you are missing vital necessities to actually construct a machine gun. The only item I have ever heard of the BATF dancing around was the full-auto carrier. In some cases, I have heard it is allowed. As for actually installing a piece of a full-auto fire control group in your lower receiver, I can see where an agent would have a field day with you.

You have to ask yourself, is it worth spending 10 years of your life in jail? Do you really want to pay an attorney some absurd amount in legal fees to keep your butt out of jail? All this for a "cool factor" to satisfy some "Look at me at the range" syndrome just isn't worth the potential problems you could end up with.

I have run into BATF agents in the strangest places, so don't think that you will not run into one. They hang out at public ranges, bars, and all night gas stations that sell liquor.





Even if you have enough money and beat the "Intent" charges, chances are they will nail you for Federal Tax Evasion..............

All you have to do is, ask yourself is it really worth it?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:42:34 AM EDT
Long time ago it was as easy to find 16 selectors with the tab ground off as an AR15 style selector. They used to come in some companies kits. I have a jar with a good many of them in it that I have replaced over the years. Whats really hard to find is an AR selector with the center ridge still on it like a 16 style but the two side cuts not done. Never seen but one of those.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:06:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By shamayim:

Originally Posted By taquito971:
I'll start by saying there is no right answer. While it may or may not be legal, it also won't work. I tried an M16 selector in mine and it is "safe" not "Semi" in the last posistion. I too thought it would be cool to flip it back to my marked Auto lower and shoot semi. No go.

Brian




You got a safe at the rear, because the shoulder at the rear of the trigger, that prevents an M16 disconnector from being installed was hit by the shoulder of the selector that holds down the tail of the M16 hammer. Grind off the shoulder on the selector, and you'll aceive what you were after in the first place. You'll also prevent yourself from having to answer questions about having M16 parts in your piece; because once you grind down that shoulder in the middle of the selector, it's no longer an M16 part.hr

I know, but I still don't need one. If it was drop in, I'd have considered it(my lowers are marked auto), but it's not an issue. Besides, as has been mentioned, when a person who cares is breakind down my rifle looking for M16 parts, I'm in deep S*it already. Modifying the part is just silly.

Brian
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:12:51 PM EDT
While I fully agree that it's kind of silly, grinding down that tab on the selector and installing it is no more illegal than grinding the full auto tab off the back of the hammer and installing it.

Without the tab that depresses the disconnector in full auto, IT"S NO LONGER AN M16 PART!



(Now that it's in full caps, maybe you can understand my English)
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 12:24:27 PM EDT
to keep it simple, here is how the batf looks at it. if you have any m16 part installed in your ar-15 they classify it as a machine gun.

so i don't think a little selector switch is worth going to pound-me-in-the-ass jail.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:07:09 PM EDT
BATFE has ruled that any M16 parts in an AR15 makes it a machine gun. The problem is this ruling is contrary to the law which states if more than 1 round is fired per pull of the trigger, it's a machine gun.

BATFE does not write law, only interprets it. Is it legal, yes! Can you get charged with constructive intent? Maybe, but it will be hard to prove as this part by itself will not make an AR15 shoot full auto. No different than adding just a M16 bolt carrier. Neither will make it shoot full auto by itself so constructive intent would be hard to prove.

It will cost a lot of money to defend yourself but I can't see anyone loosing this in court. Intent has got to be the hardest thing to prove in a court room.

If you had all 11 M16 parts needed to make an AR15 ainto an M16 then yeah it's probably easier to prosecute for constructive intent.

I've done it in the past and it won't even shoot if you move the selector to the full auto position.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:11:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AWDTerror:
to keep it simple, here is how the batf looks at it. if you have any m16 part installed in your ar-15 they classify it as a machine gun.

so i don't think a little selector switch is worth going to pound-me-in-the-ass jail.

What agent told you this? Can you cite an actual case? I've never been able to find one. What about if you own an AR15 and posess an M-16 part. Does this qualify as intent to build a machine gun? What if you buy an M16 parts kit and they send you all the parts(which frequently happens)and you posess an AR15, is this intent to build a machine gun?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:13:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 6:19:38 PM EDT by AWDTerror]
double post
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:16:13 PM EDT
Anyone ever read this from Bushmaster?

E. Automatic and Select-Fire Versions

Automatic firearms have been tightly regulated in the United States since the Gun Control Act of 1934. Automatic and Select-Fire Versions of any firearm are considered Class III firearms and subject to National Firearms Act (NFA) Title II regulations, which are extremely strict. Newly manufactured fully automatic and select-fire versions are available only to the military and law enforcement, and in extremely limited circumstances to civilians. In California, you can forget owning an automatic anything unless you are law enforcement officer, or a licensed dealer.

Civilians must obtain special law-enforcement approved permits, pass a whole series of Local and Federal background checks, and pay a host of special Federal Transfer taxes ($200.00 per firearm) to own an automatic or select-fire firearm in the few states that permit them for civilians!

Remember, it is ILLEGAL to even have in your possession the parts for Automatic/Select Fire conversion for your AR-15 type rifle if you have a semi-automatic AR-15 rifle! Be safe, err on the side of caution, and stick to the legal semi-automatic parts. If you have any questions as to the legality of any parts you may have, call Bushmaster Sales at 1-800-998-SWAT or Customer Service at 1-800-883-6229.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:18:55 PM EDT
Ok we need to look at the track record of the BATF and need to look at how THEY interpret laws. Just because it is legal doesn't mean that they arn't going to harass you over it.

Why even risk it just to say you have an m16 selector on your ar-15.
Absolutly no pointLook its your gun. do what you want. you can probably put it on there and most likely nothing will ever happen to you. But then again there is always that one chance that something could, Like they guy from here that got arrested with the mill in his house or something from here. He probably never though something would ever happen to him.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:01:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunz4me:
Anyone ever read this from Bushmaster?


Bushmaster is the second to last place I would go for legal advice right after AR15.com
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:06:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KurtVF:

Originally Posted By gunz4me:
Anyone ever read this from Bushmaster?


Bushmaster is the second to last place I would go for legal advice right after AR15.com



What about this then?

16. MACHINE GUN PARTS AND CONVERSION KITS. Federal and state machine gun penalties apply to possession of sufficient parts to assemble a machine gun, or to parts designed and intended to convert a semi-automatic firearm to fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger. You may be prosecuted for possession of conversion parts even if you do not own the firearm for which they were designed.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:11:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 7:17:03 PM EDT by gunz4me]

Originally Posted By KurtVF:

Originally Posted By AWDTerror:
to keep it simple, here is how the batf looks at it. if you have any m16 part installed in your ar-15 they classify it as a machine gun.

so i don't think a little selector switch is worth going to pound-me-in-the-ass jail.

What agent told you this? Can you cite an actual case? I've never been able to find one. What about if you own an AR15 and posess an M-16 part. Does this qualify as intent to build a machine gun? What if you buy an M16 parts kit and they send you all the parts(which frequently happens)and you posess an AR15, is this intent to build a machine gun?



Case involving a DIAS, where the feds burned this guy on intent after they had entrapped him.

ETA: Another constructive possession case
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:14:20 PM EDT

16. MACHINE GUN PARTS AND CONVERSION KITS. Federal and state machine gun penalties apply to possession of sufficient parts to assemble a machine gun, or to parts designed and intended to convert a semi-automatic firearm to fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger. You may be prosecuted for possession of conversion parts even if you do not own the firearm for which they were designed.


A selector lever is not sufficient to assemble a machine gun and in and of itself it is not designed to convert a semi-automatic firearm to fire more than one shot.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:20:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TANGOCHASER:

16. MACHINE GUN PARTS AND CONVERSION KITS. Federal and state machine gun penalties apply to possession of sufficient parts to assemble a machine gun, or to parts designed and intended to convert a semi-automatic firearm to fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger. You may be prosecuted for possession of conversion parts even if you do not own the firearm for which they were designed.


A selector lever is not sufficient to assemble a machine gun and in and of itself it is not designed to convert a semi-automatic firearm to fire more than one shot.



I totally agree with you on this one, BUT, I would not want to be the one busted with having ONE M16 part in an AR-15.

Also, think of what the local media would make of this if someone were arrested for having the M16 selector switch in their AR-15. They would break out the big terms like assault rifle, machine gun, illegally modified semi-automatic, etc.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:24:47 PM EDT
The only 'cool' use I'd have would be a selector that could switch the trigger from a single stage to a double stage. Not sure how useful it would be, but it would be slick and somewhat useful. Or maybe 'semi' would be a 5-6lbs service single stage, while flipping to 'group therapy' would lighten the trigger to a 1-2 lb target single stage trigger.

Something for the more mechanicaly inclined of us to consider.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 7:38:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 7:40:30 PM EDT by RiPP3D]
Tr. 309. An auto sear can, by itself, constitute a "machinegun" under the National Firearms Act. United States v. Cash, 149 F.3d 706, 706-08

thats the only thing i wouldnt want to be nailed with.. any other m16 part. "from what i understand" would not consitute possesion of a fully auto machine gun.
get caught with a auto sear in your pocket... your done.. :)

as the auto sear is the only "serial stamped" item required on a class 3 weapon.

even if your class 3 and have possesion of a sear not on record to you.. YOUR DONE..

any questions.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:00:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RiPP3D:
Tr. 309. An auto sear can, by itself, constitute a "machinegun" under the National Firearms Act. United States v. Cash, 149 F.3d 706, 706-08

thats the only thing i wouldnt want to be nailed with.. any other m16 part. "from what i understand" would not consitute possesion of a fully auto machine gun.
get caught with a auto sear in your pocket... your done.. :)

as the auto sear is the only "serial stamped" item required on a class 3 weapon.

even if your class 3 and have possesion of a sear not on record to you.. YOUR DONE..

any questions.



exactly my point, people just can't grasp the concept that the BATF only needs a smell of what THEY think is wrong or illegal and they will lock your ass up. People also have no concept of zero-tolerance. If you think your going to make a stand when you get detained your dead wrong. Like stated earlier, the media and everyone else will label you as a machine-gun toting psyco. Some people need to get out from behind the computer and look at the real world and the whole picture.

Remember New Orleans?
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:27:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AWDTerror:

Originally Posted By RiPP3D:
Tr. 309. An auto sear can, by itself, constitute a "machinegun" under the National Firearms Act. United States v. Cash, 149 F.3d 706, 706-08

thats the only thing i wouldnt want to be nailed with.. any other m16 part. "from what i understand" would not consitute possesion of a fully auto machine gun.
get caught with a auto sear in your pocket... your done.. :)

as the auto sear is the only "serial stamped" item required on a class 3 weapon.

even if your class 3 and have possesion of a sear not on record to you.. YOUR DONE..

any questions.



exactly my point, people just can't grasp the concept that the BATF only needs a smell of what THEY think is wrong or illegal and they will lock your ass up. People also have no concept of zero-tolerance. If you think your going to make a stand when you get detained your dead wrong. Like stated earlier, the media and everyone else will label you as a machine-gun toting psyco. Some people need to get out from behind the computer and look at the real world and the whole picture.


All one needs is an uninformed agent misinterpreting the law, and that person is so screwed. Sure they may win in the end, but at what cost?


Originally Posted By AWDTerror:
Remember New Orleans?



All too well. I made the mistake of running low on ammo, and I was not able to start restocking until December and at much higher prices. The sad thing is I live several hours away from New Orleans, yet certain chain stores shipped their existing on hand ammunition out of state and did not take deliveries to restock. I can not divulge the source of this information, for fear of getting someone fired.

Another thing I have learned is if any non-local volunteer law enforcement officials come knocking on the door during a natural disaster asking if I have any weapons, my answer will be NO.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:37:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AWDTerror:

Originally Posted By RiPP3D:
Tr. 309. An auto sear can, by itself, constitute a "machinegun" under the National Firearms Act. United States v. Cash, 149 F.3d 706, 706-08

thats the only thing i wouldnt want to be nailed with.. any other m16 part. "from what i understand" would not consitute possesion of a fully auto machine gun.
get caught with a auto sear in your pocket... your done.. :)

as the auto sear is the only "serial stamped" item required on a class 3 weapon.

even if your class 3 and have possesion of a sear not on record to you.. YOUR DONE..

any questions.



exactly my point, people just can't grasp the concept that the BATF only needs a smell of what THEY think is wrong or illegal and they will lock your ass up. People also have no concept of zero-tolerance. If you think your going to make a stand when you get detained your dead wrong. Like stated earlier, the media and everyone else will label you as a machine-gun toting psyco. Some people need to get out from behind the computer and look at the real world and the whole picture.





So how do M16 (full-auto) carriers in semi-auto guns fit into this theory?

It's perfectly legal and accepted practice - yet it seems to fly in the face of some of the erroneous advice in this thread, that ANY full-auto related part in a semi gun is an immediate trip to the big house.

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:24:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 4:41:15 AM EDT by AWDTerror]
Carriers or not, your just not getting it. The government has screwed people over for a lot less.

I want you to show me where it states in the laws that a m16 carrier is legal.

I remember a case a little while ago where this guy had got busted for illegal possesing a machine gun, a fully automatic rugar 10/22. So they detain him, the whole nine yards, make him go to court, what ever. Confiscating all his weapons, never bother to even take a look at them though. It come to find out that a good amount of time later, the BATF had investigated the weapon, and that the weapon in fact was not fully automatic. The quality of ammo and just shear coinsidence that the rugar would slam fire and empty the whole magazine.

Ended up costing the guy a lot of $$$, hardship, and time. I know he sued over it, but I don't know what the outcome of that ever was. All because the BATF thought he had an automatic weapon.

But whatever, some people get it, and some people never will get it. I realize that some people think the government is their friend.
But you'll get a real eye opener when bubba your cell mate is sticking HIS junk in YOUR brown eye. All because you wanted to have an m16 part on your gun.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:33:06 AM EDT
Listening to this thread is the reason the government doesn't need to pass any more gun laws. They just scare people into submission.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:49:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 5:57:20 AM EDT by AWDTerror]
i wouldn't say scared, its more of a forcing into submission.
Scared or forced, isn't this what our founding fathers wanted to avoid.......
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:02:12 AM EDT
I once bought an old Quality Parts (Bushmaster) lower that had such a selector. At one time I think it was ok, but now they've tightened up on it. Needless to say I got rid of the parts (by sending them to Bushmaster with a nice letter) and they sent me new ones.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:36:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AWDTerror:
Carriers or not, your just not getting it. The government has screwed people over for a lot less.

I want you to show me where it states in the laws that a m16 carrier is legal.

I remember a case a little while ago where this guy had got busted for illegal possesing a machine gun, a fully automatic rugar 10/22. So they detain him, the whole nine yards, make him go to court, what ever. Confiscating all his weapons, never bother to even take a look at them though. It come to find out that a good amount of time later, the BATF had investigated the weapon, and that the weapon in fact was not fully automatic. The quality of ammo and just shear coinsidence that the rugar would slam fire and empty the whole magazine.

Ended up costing the guy a lot of $$$, hardship, and time. I know he sued over it, but I don't know what the outcome of that ever was. All because the BATF thought he had an automatic weapon.

But whatever, some people get it, and some people never will get it. I realize that some people think the government is their friend.
But you'll get a real eye opener when bubba your cell mate is sticking HIS junk in YOUR brown eye. All because you wanted to have an m16 part on your gun.



Why don't you show everyone where in the law it says that just having an M16 carrier is ILLEGAL?

Asking others to prove it is legal is nonsensical - the laws and criminal code DON'T LIST what is LEGAL. They list what is illegal. YOU are the one who seems to be making a claim that any fullauto part in a semi AR is illegal.

The LAW seems relatively clear - that only if you have the partS to create a fully automatic weapons does it constitute an offense. For practical terms, that would appear to mean that you need ALL the parts readily available.

Obviously, the ATF does have a lot of discretion in their "interpretation" of the law - which is where a lot of this ambiguity (and fear of the ATF) comes from. That's where the letter from the ATF comes in (which plenty of people here on arfcom have copies of) that states the M16 carrier is fine. The fact that Colt and other manufacturers ship semi-auto rifles with full-auto carriers means that it is now an accepted practice.

But - if you want to voluntarily comply with gun laws that don't even exist, and help the ATF with scare-mongering, then knock yourself out. It is my opinion that we should be "pushing back" against possible restrictions, to the extent that it is possible within the law - as opposed to already rolling over and voluntarily accepting restrictions that aren't even law. And the M16 carrier is an example of where it is perfectly accepted, and I find it highly unlikely that some imaginary jack-booted ATF agent is going to arrest someone for an M16 carrier in an otherwise semi-auto gun, when that's how many manufacturers legally ship them from the factory, and the ATF has released a technical opinion that it is okay.

I DO agree with you that in more ambiguous cases - like putting in ONE of the fire control parts, or something like that - that ought to still be legal, but to which I am not aware of a letter authorizing it, that it would have the risk of an ambitious ATF agent dragging someone to court over it. And it ending up costing a LOT in legal fees. That would seem to be a silly risk to take, I agree, and would give people that same advice you are giving - it would be dumb to tak such a risk, especially for no reason, since none of the FCG parts give any advantage, as opposed to the M16 carrier.

My point is just that the M16 carrier does not fall into that "risky" category, and it undermines the absolute statement that any full auto part is risky or outright illegal in a semi AR. Such statements are simply incorrect.


Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:40:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gmtmaster:

Originally Posted By pigmy:
It is absolutely legal. Stupid but legal.




No it isnt legal... Be careful what advice you give here..



Take your own advice! I guess both Colt and the AR owner are going to CLUB FED when an AR is shipped with an M-16 Bolt Carrier. I understand that these laws are often fuzzy but there is no way in hell a selector switch alone will end in a MG or intent conviction. As stated, it is legal but stupid.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:53:31 AM EDT
there is a difference between an m16 style carrier and an actual m16 carrier.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:58:29 AM EDT
Drop In Auto Sears and Auto Sears are different than an M16 selector. Those parts show intent, since they have no use but to CONVERT a semi-auto rifle to a full-auto rifle. They are also INSTRUMENTAL in this conversion. Very different parts than a carrier or hammer.

Since the LOWER is where the full-auto parts are found to make a rifle "go fast," that is where I would keep full-auto parts out of! Auto carriers don't in and of themselves show "intent." It's kinda like an M16 barrel, but to a slightly lesser extent.

I agree it's a "risk", and I wouldn't do it, but I have also seen how once specific "points" are altered on M16 FCG parts, they become semi-auto parts. Bushmaster actually has a diagram of AR parts compared to M16 parts in their catalog, and if you modify the M16 parts so that they will no longer make a rifle "go fast", then you'd still have the functionality of the third position, and it would no longer be considered an M16 part.

If the ATF goes after Colt, I'll take the M16 carrier out of my AR.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:19:28 AM EDT
Wow thanks for the feedback. I think this is my most popular thread so far. - - I really think that Shamayim has the right idea. If I were to modify the selector so it wouldn’t work in an M-16 it would just be a custom AR-15 selector. I’ve also seen other custom weapons that could move their selector switches to all positions, but were semi-auto only and perfectly legal. - - I like your idea M4A1OwnsYou about bump firing the weapon after showing your friends you switched it to auto. I’m sure they would ask if it was a machine gun. I’d be like, fooled you, hehe. Of course I wouldn’t try to fool my local range or police for that matter. Thanks again, Dave.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:32:14 AM EDT
Also Forest you have an interesting idea for a new trigger set up. Maybe I’ll work on that next. I wonder if there would be any other ideas to consider for the use of another position for a semi-auto AR-15.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:47:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
Also Forest you have an interesting idea for a new trigger set up.



The single/double wasn't my idea, IIRC it was DEVL's, I just thought the concept was neat. I was thinking a change in pressure (like a set trigger) would be easier to execute and possibly more useful (hence the 2nd idea).

If you get something like that working you'll have to post about it!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:04:41 PM EDT


What about this then?

16. MACHINE GUN PARTS AND CONVERSION KITS. Federal and state machine gun penalties apply to possession of sufficient parts to assemble a machine gun, or to parts designed and intended to convert a semi-automatic firearm to fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger. You may be prosecuted for possession of conversion parts even if you do not own the firearm for which they were designed.




You are proving my point totally. What this says is that if you own enough PARTS (not "part") to convert an AR15 to a machine gun it is considered a machine gun. Basically it says: AR15 reciever+drop in auto sear+M16 fire control parts=machine gun. A selecter switch is not by itself "parts intended to convert" but could be if in the right combination. An M16 selector switch in an AR would not cause it to "fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger" therefore is not a machine gun. Thanks for posting that and clearing things up.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:57:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 2:16:13 PM EDT by gunz4me]

Originally Posted By KurtVF:


What about this then?

16. MACHINE GUN PARTS AND CONVERSION KITS. Federal and state machine gun penalties apply to possession of sufficient parts to assemble a machine gun, or to parts designed and intended to convert a semi-automatic firearm to fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger. You may be prosecuted for possession of conversion parts even if you do not own the firearm for which they were designed.




You are proving my point totally. What this says is that if you own enough PARTS (not "part") to convert an AR15 to a machine gun it is considered a machine gun. Basically it says: AR15 reciever+drop in auto sear+M16 fire control parts=machine gun. A selecter switch is not by itself "parts intended to convert" but could be if in the right combination. An M16 selector switch in an AR would not cause it to "fire more than one shot with a single pull of the trigger" therefore is not a machine gun. Thanks for posting that and clearing things up.



I was just trying to find a more reliable source than Bushmaster

Also, I know for a fact that certain brands of AK came with the full auto carrier and that was perfectly acceptable to the BATF at once upon a time. It takes more than a carrier to make a machine gun. I would argue that it takes more than a selector to make a machine gun too (barring there isn't a DIAS nearby). I wouldn't do it because it is stupid, and there are too many uneducated law enforcement officials out there (off topic rant below for ONE example of an uneducated officer).

(Going off slightly topic) I was once pulled over for having an illegal window tint job on my car. I pulled out my medical waiver, and the officer said "those things don't mean nothin’". The jerk even proceeded to write me a ticket. I told him to call his station, because I was going to have a field day with him when I fought the ticket due to the fact that I was exempt from the tint law with a valid medical reason. He called his station, and they told him that he could not write me a ticket because I had a valid and approved medical waiver. The jerk did not even apologize or anything. I know this isn't AR related, but it shows that law enforcement officials sometimes don't even know the GD law they are supposed to be enforcing. I also don’t want to offend any of our good officers for this one uninformed jerk. You guys do one hell of a job and don’t get paid nearly enough for risking your ass to protect and serve the public. (End off topic rant)
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 1:20:30 PM EDT
Police are very bad about not knowing the law. I can't imagine ATF agents are any better.

I have a relative who is a police officer, and trust me, they only know laws about stuff that happens all the time.

I know someone who got hassled with his CCW because he was in a different state (that accepted his CCW).

If you are pulled over with your CCW in another state, prepare to sit on the side of the road a while.
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