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Posted: 3/25/2006 3:30:21 PM EDT
I just ordered a Fort Knox Maverick Series 6031. Holds 14-28 long arms. It's the right size for me: ie more room than I'll ever need (so that's not the question).
It has 12 gauge steel, fire-rated at 1200 degrees F for 30 minutes and weighs 557lbs. I plan to keep it in my basement. I paid $1060.

But now I'm wondering....

For $400 more, I can get the Defender Series 6031. Same size. *10* gauge steel. Weighs 765lbs. Fire-rated 1450 degrees F for 50 minutes.

The guy at the store assures me that the Maverick is plenty. If my house burned down, it would never get that hot in the basement (since heat rises, firehose water falls), and that its heft and steel thickness is plenty to thwart 99% of burglars. Namely those without acetylene torches.

Is it worth the $400 more to buy the better safe? I sure don't want to spend the $4000 for their top of the line safe.

Thanks in advance......

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:42:21 PM EDT
I'd say go with the bigger safe. Trust me it will fill up. Also you can store other things in there such as important documents and cash if you desire.

Max
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:49:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By maxell27:
I'd say go with the bigger safe. Trust me it will fill up. Also you can store other things in there such as important documents and cash if you desire.

Max



They're the same size safes. Also, I've taken into account the extra items I may store there. Still, it's more than enough room.

I'm asking more about the importance of steel thickness, weight and fire rating. And whether upgrading those is worth the $$$.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:57:00 PM EDT
thicker = better
more fire rating = better
heavier = heavier

are those things worth it to you, 400 is a small price for a lifetime of increased security and piece of mind
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:05:42 PM EDT
More than enough room ha. That's what I thought when I bought my safe. WRONG
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:30:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSTOCK:
More than enough room ha. That's what I thought when I bought my safe. WRONG

That's why I bought two. Now I think that I'm getting to the point that I'm going to need three pretty soon.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:33:04 PM EDT
But... but.... It's 40% more!

There's always "better" features that'll get me to a $4000 pricetag, which is where I don't want to go.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:39:44 PM EDT
I would keep it in the AC house instead of a basement. The odds of rust is highter then your house burning up. Unless you have AC down there. What happens if your basement floods?
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:21:33 PM EDT
man i have one of those, i dont have enough room, and defintly cant fit my 50 in it, i would go with a secret room, where like u have open up a book case or sumtin, and btw if your house catches on fire your guns will most likley turn to slag inside the safe, due to the heat.
[:)>hippie.gif
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:24:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSTOCK:
More than enough room ha. That's what I thought when I bought my safe. WRONG



+1
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:37:16 PM EDT
More than enough room ha. That's what I thought when I bought my safe. WRONG

+1 I did the same thing with a 24 gun fire rated safe. Then I did it again and bought a second of the same safe. Both times I said I'll never need another safe.....
I'm thinking about a third matching safe. I will say the two of them look stellar side by side in my basement bar.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:50:45 PM EDT
The first one I bought was about that size and it filled so freaking fast. So I later got another much bigger one thinking it would never be full. Famous last words!!! Once I got my c & r and got into the beltfed things it was all full. Now I am planning the walk in safe. But bigger, stronger, longer is always better. You spend $1000 to secure the most important stuff you own in it that cannot be replaced so for a little more you have a better safe. I keep all my negs of pic and things like that so if my house burns and my photo albums get destroyed I just make new ones.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:57:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BSTOCK:
More than enough room ha. That's what I thought when I bought my safe. WRONG



+1
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:28:13 PM EDT
Go with the bigger safe. You will find something to put in it. We have pics, records, etc.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:36:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TennesseeRat:Go with the bigger safe. You will find something to put in it. We have pics, records, etc.
+1 . Get the biggest safe You can afford.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:05:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By harleyrkc:
More than enough room ha. That's what I thought when I bought my safe. WRONG

+1

I did the same thing with a 24 gun fire rated safe. Then I did it again and bought a second of the same safe. Both times I said I'll never need another safe.....
I'm thinking about a third matching safe. I will say the two of them look stellar side by side in my basement bar.



I got a $2000+ Browning FN safe, thinking it's 22 gun capacity was far more room than I've ever need. It's real purdy with a good fire rating, active bolts all around and all that good stuff. But in retrospect, it's both too much and too little. The damn think's full and I've got a bunch of guns under the bed and in the closet.

I just don't see anyone breaking into my house and then trying to crack the safe. Even if the FN safe is theoretically more secure and more fire resistant, I think the chances that either of those features will ever make any difference is miniscule. As long as it looks hard to break into, I think that'll be enough to discourage anyone who's likely to break into my house. And that (combined with a bit of theoretical fire protection) is enough for me.

So now I'm looking at adding a 14/28 Cannon American Eagle safe for $750 at Academy. It'll do everything I need a safe to do, but for a lot less money.

If you have a house with a basement and the house burns down, I doubt fire protection's going to do a whole lot of good. No matter where it starts, it'll end up in the basement and full of water. My advice would be go big and go cheap. Within reason, of course.

That's my $0.02, for whatever that's worth.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:16:20 PM EDT
The Bigger the Better!!

I have a Ft Knox "Yeager" 7241, It weighs in at 2,000 pounds
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 7:21:40 PM EDT
To try to address your question to the point.
If you can find out what the safe uses for fire protection you can install some for less on your own. Most safes under $2K use fire rated drywall to line the inside. You can remove the interior panels and add another layer of fire rated drywall for less than $50.
If it is in your basement I would then spend some money on a steel platform that will raise the safe off the floor by about 18 inches. The platform can be bolted down and the safe bolted to it then weld the bolts to the platform. Keeping it off the ground will help incase of flooding. In the case of fire and your house burns to the ground the extra height
Off the ground will help keep it out of the hot embers that will build up and attempt to melt it.

I hope this helps it seems that most people did not understand your question and statement that the two safes are the same size.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 10:30:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:48:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BSTOCK:
More than enough room ha. That's what I thought when I bought my safe. WRONG




You would have a hard time putting the amount of guns in the safe the maker says you can. Mine is suppose to hold 24 or something. I have a lot less than that but very little room left.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 7:12:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By David_Hineline:
When your house burns your burning house will fall into the basement and your gun safe will be like a baked potatoe wrapped in tinfoil in a charcoal fired barbeque pit.



I disagree. In a fire that is bad enough that the whole house fails into the basement, the only place your safe can be to stand any chance is in the basement BUT the key is, it has to be up against an exterior wall. Preferably a corner of the foundation.

When the house fails in, it falls in towards the center of the house. The only items that have a chance will be by the exterior wall. What do you think will happen to the safe that's on the first or second floor? It will fall right down into the middle of that burning pile. All that said, lets face it... in a fire that bad, you will be lucky to save any of your firearms regardless of where or how you have them stored.

As far as water, build a concrete\cinder block based 1-2' high to sit the safe on. That should be enough for all but the worst case scenarios.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 7:22:24 AM EDT
ya if the maker says 24 guns that means comfotablely 12-15 depending on scopes and such.

Sounds like your screwed if fire strikes. put it on an upper floor and it will fall into basement when the floor burns though. then it bake like potato until the fire water cases it rust.

Mines in basement bolted to a platform. I have the cheaper one like what is posted on the link. be sure to get a goldenrod dehumidifier. it will help keep the rust at bay.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 8:18:51 AM EDT
proper formula for deciding on size of gun safe:
1)number of guns you have
+
2) number of guns you plan to have in 10 years

multiply that number by 2
equals minimum size gun safe you should purchase
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 7:56:56 AM EDT
Has anybody who had a non-fireproof safe tried to do it from the exterior? I bought my safe years ago when money was tight and did not go for the fire-proof model. I am now thinking of building a double 5/8 ths sheetrock box around the exterior. The safe is in the basement on a 6" high platform and the rear of the basement is above grade with drains going outside (no flooding). I am thinking of building a box around it of the fire-rated sheetrock and using the fire-stop caulking on all the seams. The door would have a gasket made of the same to form a seal if there was a fire.
You could paint the exterior with a durable gloss paint so it would look decent. The only part I am still working on is the hinges. You would want them to be double jointed to allow you to have enough clearance to fully open the safe and outer box door.
I did not want to do the interior as I have already fully carpeted the interior of the safe. If anybody has gone this route and has any suggestions, please post them.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:24:35 PM EDT
Sheet rock on the outside will be just fine. But you will have to glue the sheets on.
Do not drive screws into the safe creating holes. As far as the door is concerned just line the inside of it. Take off the cover and glue pieces on the inside. All safes are fireproofed
In this manner with the fireproof insulating material is glued to the inside.

As far as the door gasket goes well I do not know what they use but it is rather thin. looks almost like a magnet but it is not.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:29:46 AM EDT
I was not going to attach the drywall directly to the safe. I was figuring a airspace of at least 1/2 inch between the material and the safe. This would further prevent any heat being transfered to the safe. This would also not alter the safe in any way. If I ever decided that I did not want the drywall exteriored I would have a real mess removing it. This would just be a box surrounding the safe which may be the easiest and the most effective way to protect it.
Has anybody actually seen the results of a safe being in a fire? I would like to see how much actual protection a single layer of 5/8 ths Firecode sheetrock gives. Any idea of the interior temps reach?
My other idea was a pipe with a fire sprinklerhead above the safe for fire suppression but being I am on my own well, when the electrcal system got toasted my water pressure would be next to zero! hinking.gif
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:34:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 7:35:35 AM EDT by wildearp]
12 gauge isn't very thick. Neither is 10 gauge. The thin version of this safe had 1/4" in the walls, 1/2" in the doors, solid steel:


LINKY

If the product is rated RSC, it is NOT a safe.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:48:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wildearp:
12 gauge isn't very thick. Neither is 10 gauge. The thin version of this safe had 1/4" in the walls, 1/2" in the doors, solid steel:
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=32562

LINKY

If the product is rated RSC, it is NOT a safe.



Holey fuckoley! Now there's a safe!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 9:01:10 AM EDT
Thats not a safe, thats a vault!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 10:22:17 AM EDT
How in the hell did you get that monster in your house?
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:09:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dvor316:
I was not going to attach the drywall directly to the safe. I was figuring a airspace of at least 1/2 inch between the material and the safe. This would further prevent any heat being transfered to the safe. This would also not alter the safe in any way. If I ever decided that I did not want the drywall exteriored I would have a real mess removing it. This would just be a box surrounding the safe which may be the easiest and the most effective way to protect it.
Has anybody actually seen the results of a safe being in a fire? I would like to see how much actual protection a single layer of 5/8 ths Firecode sheetrock gives. Any idea of the interior temps reach?
My other idea was a pipe with a fire sprinklerhead above the safe for fire suppression but being I am on my own well, when the electrcal system got toasted my water pressure would be next to zero!



The closest thing I have seen is a gun safe at the Fun show. They always have it there on display and pictures of the guns unharmed inside it after the fire.
I do not know what that company uses for fire liner. Could be sheetrock or something high tec. Nor do I know the reality of the fire that it was in. Though the safe looks really burnt up does not mean it was in major heat. The paint finish can and will burn up/off and look bad. The safe will become more of an oven it will take time for the interior to get up to enough heat to begin doing damage. (Depending on its contents that is) Polycarbonate guns like Glock’s will melt, but wood and steel will be less likely to have a problem.

The closest thing I have seen is a gun safe at the Fun show. They always have it there on display and pictures of the guns unharmed inside it after the fire.
I do not know what that company uses for fire liner. Could be sheetrock or something high tec. Nor do I know the reality of the fire that it was in. Though the safe looks really burnt up does not mean it was in major heat. The paint finish can and will burn up/off and look bad. The safe will become more of an oven it will take time for the interior to get up to enough heat to begin doing damage. (Depending on its contents that is) Polycarbonate guns like Glock’s will melt, but wood and steel will be less likely to have a problem.

In any case I did not understand what you were getting at in your first post. Now I do.
If I were going to build a box around my safe then I would do it the same way you build a room. Frame around it in 2X4 then hang the sheetrock. As far as the door I would buy a fire rated pre hung door and hang it like any other door in my house. An additional advantage to this is you could put insulation in it to help keep heat out. But something tells me you don’t have this much space to waste in the room. There is no other way that I can think of to couple sheetrock at corners and edges. Attempting to glue it together with fire caulk won’t work for many reasons. #1 fire caulk is not an adhesive but a filler of gaps. It has no strength; though it may dry hard it is very brittle once cured. Just a few times of opening and closing your door will break it up and your box will be falling apart. Plus sheetrock is too weak to screw into itself and hold up. You have to have a frame of some sort to attach to.

You stated that this safe was bought years ago when money was tight. Maybe not so tight now? Upgrade to a bigger fire rated one and sell the old one or use it for an ammo locker.
Upgrading seems to be the way to go here makes more sense.

Just wondering by the way, why all the concern about fire proofing now?
I might be the total optimist but a house fire is fairly rare.

Link Posted: 3/30/2006 7:14:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/30/2006 7:17:08 PM EDT by Rollyman]

Originally Posted By wildearp:
12 gauge isn't very thick. Neither is 10 gauge. The thin version of this safe had 1/4" in the walls, 1/2" in the doors, solid steel:
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=32562

LINKY

If the product is rated RSC, it is NOT a safe.



Nice VAULT

But where the hell are all the GUNS???
Mighty big for one revolver, some butter and I gather a mag and some ammo!!??
And last but not least all that cash
Looks to me like you have more stuff on the outside of the doors than in the safe
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 8:10:34 PM EDT
always get bigger, always......i wish I did

BUT - do yourself a favor and take a long weekend off, call Drake Safe Co. in Creedmore, NC, Come down and pick up a custom made safe with 1/4" steel throughout at a reasonable price. He will customize the interior to exactly your needs.

I have one of his smaller units that i believe is the 14 - 20 gun model - crammed with stuff. But that little safe weighs 950 lbs +/- and is lag bolted to the floor. Last time I talked to him he has had 6 attempted break ins of his safes and not one breach yet.

1/4" is the only way to go, according to Mr. Drake there is only one other Co. using 1/4" and that is on the left coast somewhere but that was a few years ago. PM me if you want his contact info.

SC
Link Posted: 3/30/2006 9:08:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By captain127:
proper formula for deciding on size of gun safe:
1)number of guns you have
+
2) number of guns you plan to have in 10 years

multiply that number by 2
equals minimum size gun safe you should purchasehr


*GULP*
Who makes a 300 gun safe??? Naw, I'm talking a walk-in vault at that point... I shoulda taken up stamp collecting...hinking.gif

Lois
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:49:26 PM EDT
What is the fire protection like in your area? Are you close to a station? do you have professional firefighters or jolly vollys? Ordinary wood construction burns at 1200-1500 degrees, the problem is your carpet and furnature burns MUCH hotter than that. In addition, without a rapid agressive fire attack a flashover can occur reaching temps up to 5000 degrees. When, (not if) the structure involved collapses the temp in a basement can reach extremly high temps with limited ability to cool the effected area. So, as a firfighter for 11 years do I think you should opt for the higher fire rated safe? I think you get my point... Have a wonderful safe buying adventure!
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