So here is a brief report on weapons some U.S. sodliers put together in Iraq. There is a much longer version (5-6 pages) of this but I just wanted to include these two:

1) The M-16 rifle : Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the talcum powder like sand over there. The sand is everywhere. [The Marine] says you feel filthy 2 minutes after coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine version is more popular because it's lighter and shorter, but it has jamming problems also. They like the ability to mount the various optical gunsights and weapons lights on the picattiny rails, but the weapon itself is not great in a desert environment. They all hate the 5.56mm(.223) round. Poor penetration on the cinderblock structure common over there and even torso hits cant be reliably counted on to put the enemy down.

(thats dissapointing)


2) Mostly AK47's The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in the desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt fed light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy mostly shoots like shit. Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire. However, they are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles. (Iran,again)

(thats even more dissapointing)


So why does the U.S. keep using this same size round?

How many times must this article (or link to the article) be posted?

I though this was new stuff? Apparantly not. Anyway, comment up, I wanna hear what you guys have to say.

You thought the AR vs. AK debate was new stuff?!

This is a FAKE.  Just for amusement, check out the long play-by-play I did of it on my blog:
www.xanga.com/collegiate_warrior/387814086/item.html

Quoted: I though this was new stuff? Apparantly not. Anyway, comment up, I wanna hear what you guys have to say.

Do you get out much? This is 4 year old news...

dupe

Its always some one with a low post count that makes troll statements like this. Unless this is just some new person looking for some info. We always seem to give newbies a hard time.

Yeah, I remember when this first appeared.  I must've been party or at least watched the story be hacked at on a half dozen forums, not to mention it contradicts the known official reports, and since the Army seemed to be rampant at the time to get things like the XM8 in the field I always thought that if there was any spin it would've been the other way.

N

Quoted: You thought the AR vs. AK debate was new stuff?! hr

No, of course I knew the AR & AK debate has been going on for some time. I'm talking about just posting the article on this website itself, not the actual debate itself. As you can clearly see I do not have as nearly as many post as the person above me with 1,652. SoTHESHOOTERSDEN, if we think logically for a second, I probably didn't have the knowledge 4 years ago because I wasn't really into the whole "AR thing" at the time. Therefore I wouldn't know. Besides, how could this have been posted 4 years ago when the Iraq War started only 3 years ago (which the soldiers are refering to of course)?

Again, if you want to give me an actual answer about why the military has not adopted a different style round style, etc. that would be helpful. Otherwise, don't waste your time. Thanks. -Lance

Hello, Day Old News, lanceB would like to cancel his subscription, he will be giving his business to Behind The Times. Thank you

Quoted: Again, if you want to give me an actual answer about why the military has not adopted a different style round style, etc. that would be helpful. Otherwise, don't waste your time. Thanks. -Lance

The real reason the Military has not adopted a different style round, and forgive me if I am wrong because this is pure speculation on my part, is probably due to the fact that they have so much invested in the 5.56.  Think of how long it would take to outfit EVERY branch of the military with a new weapon as well as procure all of that ammunition said weapon chambered in the new round.

All the reports I've heard from REAL soldiers is that it works just fine...

Plus the problem really isn't as terrible as everyone says.

I spoke in person with a Marine who had just returned from Iraq.  He said the M16A4 jammed too cuch and he would have loved to have my POF over there.  He said the M4's jammed at least once every thirty rounds.  He may have embellished a little, but I don't think he was lying to me.


TS

Thank you. And, based off www.xanga.com/collegiate_warrior/387814086/item.html, helps to eliminate what is true and what's not. I'm going to look up some more valid sources on my own but I just wanted to see your two cents on all this. Much appreciated. -Lance

You're welcome

N.T.S.A

wow can we say there's assholes on this site!?!?!?! NOW THAT'S SOME OLD INFO!!!......thank you lance for ATTEMPTING to contribute to this site....i understand why ya posted it and don't let the few jagoffs get to you....they're just happy to be able to flame noobs on the site b/c they have a high enuf post count they deem it necessary since they probably went thru the same thing when they first joined.....ne ways rant off

You forgot the part how the someone has seen an insurgent take 15 shots to the chest from the 5.56 of course and not go down, but one shot from the .308 stopped them dead.

4 year old report: Thumbs down. Chronic bad info. The bad info in this report is everywhere. [The Marine] says you feel filthy 2 seconds after reading this report....

I can personally say that the sand is not so much the problem as weapons maintenance.
My experience came from spending upwards of a year in the desert while in the USMC.   Clean your fucking weapon people  

Quoted: I can personally say that the sand is not so much the problem as weapons maintenance. My experience came from spending upwards of a year in the desert while in the USMC.   Clean your fucking weapon people   hr

In the middle of a firefight???hinking.gif

Quoted: Quoted: I can personally say that the sand is not so much the problem as weapons maintenance. My experience came from spending upwards of a year in the desert while in the USMC.   Clean your fucking weapon people   In the middle of a firefight???

If you've done proper preventative maintenance it won't malf in a firefight.  It's not like we're fighting 5 hour long firefights in the middle of sandstorms.

After reading this thread, my AR15 suddenly started jamming every 30 rounds. Thumbs down!

Post is CRAP