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Posted: 3/14/2006 4:11:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 4:21:03 PM EDT by Rekced]
I took my brand new Bushmaster out for the third time today. Had a great time!


Anyway, this is the first AR I've ever shot. It has about 400rds through it now. The first 200rds were just me goofing around to become familiar with the function of the rifle. Today was the first time I sat on a bench and really tried to put the rounds on the target from a decent distance.

This rifle is an A1 upper and 16'' barrel. Rear sight was on "L" and both are exactly the way they came from the factory. I was sitting with a decent rest, no sand bags while I concentrated on my breathing and slowly pulled the trigger until it surprised me.

The distance was 50 yards. The four holes in the middle are ones I rapid fired at 20 feet or so. I think only two rounds went off the paper.


I would like to work to become much better with open sights, and then move on to optics so I have the fundamentals. Any constructive advice would be greatly appreciated.




Thanks for your help.


Ps. If you can't resist from being a smart ass, just don't post in this thread. I'm just trying to learn.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:22:13 PM EDT
Looks like you need to zero first. I suggest a 25M zero IAW the TM/FM then practice on getting tighter groups.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:25:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 4:29:35 PM EDT by yfs200]
1. Get targets with nice round aiming blacks. It's probably really hard to see that with irons. 2. Get off the bench. You won't gain any skill shooting from a bench. Get a sling, and shoot some prone, sitting, and standing. Look for some High Power Rifle matches in the area. Go to a couple, you'll learn tons. The high power crowd is great and won't hesitate to help a new shooter.

ETA: Adjust your sights. Here's a link to High Power matches in OR. www.ossa.org/highpower/schedule.html
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:38:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 4:40:31 PM EDT by theshootersden]
As the others have said, zero it... Your definitly on the right track wanting to learn the irons first...

Zero the sights and then buy lots and lots of cheap ammo and do lots and lots of shooting... Practice is what its all about...
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:39:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 4:40:08 PM EDT by Rekced]

Originally Posted By yfs200:
1. Get targets with nice round aiming blacks. It's probably really hard to see that with irons. 2. Get off the bench. You won't gain any skill shooting from a bench. Get a sling, and shoot some prone, sitting, and standing. Look for some High Power Rifle matches in the area. Go to a couple, you'll learn tons. The high power crowd is great and won't hesitate to help a new shooter.

ETA: Adjust your sights. Here's a link to High Power matches in OR. www.ossa.org/highpower/schedule.html




Thanks for the advice guys.

First things first, how do I adjust my rear sight? I figured out the front one. The links I found online for the rear sight don't make sense to me.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:49:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 4:51:38 PM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By Rekced:

Originally Posted By yfs200:
1. Get targets with nice round aiming blacks. It's probably really hard to see that with irons. 2. Get off the bench. You won't gain any skill shooting from a bench. Get a sling, and shoot some prone, sitting, and standing. Look for some High Power Rifle matches in the area. Go to a couple, you'll learn tons. The high power crowd is great and won't hesitate to help a new shooter.

ETA: Adjust your sights. Here's a link to High Power matches in OR. www.ossa.org/highpower/schedule.html




Thanks for the advice guys.

First things first, how do I adjust my rear sight? I figured out the front one. The links I found online for the rear sight don't make sense to me.



Move the rear sight aperture in the same direction you want the bullets point of impact to be...
To move the aperture on an A1, looking at the dial on the right side of the receiver, using the tip of a .223 bullet, push in the detent that protrudes out into the hole of the wheel to unlock it and at the same time, give the wheel a turn... Turning the wheel clockwise will move the aperture to the right...
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:04:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 5:06:59 PM EDT by Rekced]

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Rekced:

Originally Posted By yfs200:
1. Get targets with nice round aiming blacks. It's probably really hard to see that with irons. 2. Get off the bench. You won't gain any skill shooting from a bench. Get a sling, and shoot some prone, sitting, and standing. Look for some High Power Rifle matches in the area. Go to a couple, you'll learn tons. The high power crowd is great and won't hesitate to help a new shooter.

ETA: Adjust your sights. Here's a link to High Power matches in OR. www.ossa.org/highpower/schedule.html




Thanks for the advice guys.

First things first, how do I adjust my rear sight? I figured out the front one. The links I found online for the rear sight don't make sense to me.



Move the rear sight aperture in the same direction you want the bullets point of impact to be...
To move the aperture on an A1, looking at the dial on the right side of the receiver, using the tip of a .223 bullet, push in the detent that protrudes out into the hole of the wheel to unlock it and at the same time, give the wheel a turn... Turning the wheel clockwise will move the aperture to the right...




How much Counter-clockwise do I turn it for roughly 4'' left at 50 yards? I will make the adjustments when I'm using a better target.


Btw- what's the purpose of there being two rear sight apertures? Which one should I use when I adjust the rifle?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:04:47 PM EDT
You need to zero your sights.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:11:00 PM EDT
as mentioned your zero is off. circle your group and find the center. adjust your sights based on the center of the group. Looks like you need to come 3" left and 4" down. Your group will then be centered on the target.

I would recommend using a black bullseye. You will be able to get better sight alignment on a standard bullseye target.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:12:15 PM EDT

I would like to work to become much better with open sights, and then move on to optics so I have the fundamentals. Any constructive advice would be greatly appreciated.



Find a good quality Instructor and take a class... learning what you don't know and then applying that knowledge in practice is your key to improving your skill. Learning how to shoot thru a internet forum is like a Auto Mechanic trying to fix your car over the phone......
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:14:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 5:17:33 PM EDT by fc7mm]
use the little rear sight to sight in.

You should do all the elevation adjustment with the front sight.

Here's some info on sighting that rifle in: groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/zeroingmethods.msnw

The basic Marine Marksmanship book is worth investing in, you can buy it at Palladin Press. It may also be onlinesomewhere.

I agree about using a black target, that looks like a target for sighting a scoped rifle.

Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:22:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 5:23:06 PM EDT by theshootersden]

Originally Posted By Rekced:
Btw- what's the purpose of there being two rear sight apertures? Which one should I use when I adjust the rifle?



The large hole is for close range, 0-200 yards and the small is for long range, 300 yards and beyond...
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:24:01 PM EDT
Taking a well structured class is best.

But for now, you should zero your rifle. I shot off of a bend and over sandbag to ensure that I got a good zero. That way if I missed my mark I was sure it was me and not in doubt that it was my rifle. go slow, and press the tigger and keep a good follow through with each shot. Your grip should be firm, but as relaxed as possible.

Your 20' shots should be hitting about 2.5" low at that range. The "arc" in the shots indicate that you are squeezing the trigger with your whole hand. Try just pressing it with your finger and keeping a constant pressure (not too tight) with your hand grip.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:29:05 PM EDT
i have shot hi power matches for many years . you may also be jerking the trigger. Ars are not known for the best trigger finger pos. Try using the pad of your finger just be hind the tip. Next use a slow constant pull on the trigger. Get a 223snap cap and practise dry firing to get used to the take up on the trigger. hope this helps ypu out.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:39:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 5:41:39 PM EDT by jwise]
What the other guys said...

Also, be sure that your cheek is hitting the stock in the same place for every shot. Moving up and down the stock will move your POI (Point Of Impact.)

Get close. No reason shooting at 50yds, yet. Adjust your sights like they said, and then work on sight alignment and trigger control. As your groups get smaller at 25yds, move back to 50yds.

Don't feel too bad. You're on the paper at 50yds. Not a bad start.

ETA: I just noticed you said it was a brand new Bushmaster. All mine came with a 25yd sighting-in target. Did you use it?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:42:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Rekced:
Btw- what's the purpose of there being two rear sight apertures? Which one should I use when I adjust the rifle?



The large hole is for close range, 0-200 yards and the small is for long range, 300 yards and beyond...




I honestly cannot see a difference between the two holes. Is one higher than the other?

I assume the "L" is used for everything inside of 200yards.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:45:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rekced:

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Rekced:
Btw- what's the purpose of there being two rear sight apertures? Which one should I use when I adjust the rifle?



The large hole is for close range, 0-200 yards and the small is for long range, 300 yards and beyond...




I honestly cannot see a difference between the two holes. Is one higher than the other?

I assume the "L" is used for everything inside of 200yards.



L for long...
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:55:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Rekced:

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Rekced:
Btw- what's the purpose of there being two rear sight apertures? Which one should I use when I adjust the rifle?



The large hole is for close range, 0-200 yards and the small is for long range, 300 yards and beyond...




I honestly cannot see a difference between the two holes. Is one higher than the other?

I assume the "L" is used for everything inside of 200yards.



L for long...





Thanks for your help.

Why did the tutorial say to use L for zeroing the rifle? I'm confused.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:14:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Rekced:
Btw- what's the purpose of there being two rear sight apertures? Which one should I use when I adjust the rifle?



The large hole is for close range, 0-200 yards and the small is for long range, 300 yards and beyond...



He's got an A1 rear sight both are the same size.

Rekced,
Make it easy on yourself. Use the unmarked (no 'L' ) aperture and zero the rifle at 50 yards. It's simple and the trajectory is near optimal. You can hit beer cans to 225y with that zero.

Contact me with your e-mail via IM and I'll e-mail you a manual detailing how to use your sights.

BTW I prefer A1 type sights myself.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:16:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 6:24:17 PM EDT by ICEAGE]
Im no expert but I'd say practice a good bit at 25 yards till you get a little better, standing, sitting and prone. Spend alot of time shooting , learn to control your breathing and how to squeeze the trigger, I personally go into a very relaxed state as Im about to squeeze off, squeeze nice and slow.

(I noticed you tryed to control the above ^, practice controlling it untill it becomes natural.)

When aiming look at the front site, let the target and rear sight become a bit blury. Think of it this way, the back peephole is your camera, the front post site is your girlfriend, the target is the background behind her. To take a picture of her normally you are focused on her and not the camera lense/ background.

Shoot your rifle untill you two bond. Good luck.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:18:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rekced:

Why did the tutorial say to use L for zeroing the rifle? I'm confused.



Stop for a second, time for some history.

The A1 sights and that zeroing procedure were meant for M16A1 RIFLES (20" barrel). If you zeroed at 25M (27.3y) using the 'L' aperture you'd get a 375M far zero (the long range). However when you swtiched back to the unmarked (lower) aperture you ended up with a 43M/250M battlesight zero. It was faily flat and worked well from contact to 300M.

You however have a carbine. The aperture flip on the carbine produces a much larger change in zero due to the shorter sight radius. So that procedure wont' work as well.

No matter use the unmarked aperture and zero at 50y and you'll get a better trajectory for use inside 225y than the 250M battlesite zero. It will be more precise (the bullet will be within 2" of the point of aim to 225y).
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:22:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:57:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/vedubin01/correction_chart.gif



Dude, that's a pistol target.

Asking for help here is probably one of the worst things a noob could do......
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:27:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By theshootersden:

Originally Posted By Rekced:
Btw- what's the purpose of there being two rear sight apertures? Which one should I use when I adjust the rifle?



The large hole is for close range, 0-200 yards and the small is for long range, 300 yards and beyond...



He's got an A1 rear sight both are the same size.




Your right... Its been so long since Ive looke at an A1 aperture, I forgot that they both have the same size opening. Thanks for the refresher course...
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 7:42:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 7:42:47 PM EDT by Forest]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/vedubin01/correction_chart.gif



Dude, that's a pistol target.

Asking for help here is probably one of the worst things a noob could do......



Good point.

LOL learning to shoot via the internet (or a book) is an effort in futility.

A 2-3 day carbine class will do more for your shooting skills than a century online.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:19:59 PM EDT
Haha I feel good now.

Honestly though, that looks like my groups when I shot my 10-22 for the first time. I thought they'd be all on target until I brought the target in on the carrier. Man did my mouth drop. I was pretty upset.

Make sure you are using a constant cheek weld.

Use the nose-to-charging handle method to ensure a constant weld between you and the rifle.

Concentrate, and squeez the trigger very slowly. Any jerky movement will throw you everywhere.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:23:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 8:25:39 PM EDT by M4A1OwnsYou]

Originally Posted By Rekced:I would like to work to become much better with open sights, and then move on to optics so I have the fundamentals. Any constructive advice would be greatly appreciated.



Precisely. I'm very new to guns myself, and I am the same way.

It's a self-commitment thing for me. If I can't shoot with open sights, I feel I shouldn't be using a rifle, which is why I refuse to use optics yet.

I HATE the iron sights on the 10/22 so once I became fairly decent, I mounted a 4x scope.

The peep sights on the AR are actually fun to use, but I am mounting an aimpoint on top of the carry handle so I have a little of both.

BTW - Using most of the advice I got online, by about 60-70 rounds, I was shooting 2.5" groups at 50yds. Yeah, I'm not a marksman, but in fact a newbie.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:21:23 PM EDT
http://www.jarheadtop.com/

Jim Owens saved my life.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:28:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By vedubin01:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/vedubin01/correction_chart.gif



Dude, that's a pistol target.

Asking for help here is probably one of the worst things a noob could do......




Haha my bad, I was digging up an old pic that was in link form, and posted it without looking what it was. Ill dig up the other one here in a sec.

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