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Posted: 3/12/2006 3:50:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 3:53:09 PM EDT by JeffCsr]
Hoped to have an uneventful fun trip to the range today, and was almost finished... Just wanted to take a few 3 shot groups and fine tune my optic and guess what... My Bushy jammed malfunctioned again.

It failed to extract once before when I almost polished off my first case of ammo. Since then I've been running a "D"fender and I'm only a little more than 800rds thru my second case of ammo.

I loaded 3rds in a mag, fired once then got what I thought was a failure to feed, but it was actually caused by a failure to extract. I dropped the mag, closed the bolt then ejected the unejected round and reloaded... Fired the second round and on the third round it failed to extract again, but this time the case IS STUCK in the chamber. I tried to cycle the bolt and eject the round but the case isn't moving, and I'm pulling "brass" off the case each time I try.

Well it's not really brass, it's Wolf ammo but you know what I mean.

Of course I don't have a .22 cal cleaning rod, I only have an OTIS so I need to go and get a real rod and pop this round out the hard way but till then any idea on why I'm having the failures?

I know it's only 3 failures in roughly 1800 rounds with crap ammo but I should get better reliability than this I would think.

When I started out the rifle was clean, and I even let it cool down a little between mags, even though I don't really rapid fire.

Oh... and when I took it down after the range trip I notice there's signs of blow-by from the 2 holes on the side of the bolt... it this normal?

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:55:02 PM EDT
I think wolf ammo is clear coated. this matl. is coming off inside the chamber and causing your failure to eject.hinking.gif
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:56:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 4:02:05 PM EDT by pun]
How do you maintain it? and how frequently?anydamage to the extractor the lip could be worn?.If its 3 rounds out of 1800 rounds of wolf id say a dirty chamber that hasnt been cleaned in awhile.Wolf is now polymer grey coated but I never had problems with either laquer coated or the new stuff.Could be the case was out of spec or damaged.In the older wolf it was the red sealant on the bullet at the cses shoulder that was causing problems i never had laquer come off the case no matter how hot it got although if the rifles real,reral hot and you leave a laquer coated round in the chamber that could happen although a cookoff in that instance is also likely if its that hot.Its normal the 2 holes on the side vent the excess gas.I personaly think the ectracor lip is worn.I use les baer chrome plated extractors and shoot lots of wolf and no visible wear in the last 6000 rounds.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:25:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JeffCsr:
Hoped to have an uneventful fun trip to the range today, and was almost finished... Just wanted to take a few 3 shot groups and fine tune my optic and guess what... My Bushy jammed malfunctioned again.

It failed to extract once before when I almost polished off my first case of ammo. Since then I've been running a "D"fender and I'm only a little more than 800rds thru my second case of ammo.

I loaded 3rds in a mag, fired once then got what I thought was a failure to feed, but it was actually caused by a failure to extract. I dropped the mag, closed the bolt then ejected the unejected round and reloaded... Fired the second round and on the third round it failed to extract again, but this time the case IS STUCK in the chamber. I tried to cycle the bolt and eject the round but the case isn't moving, and I'm pulling "brass" off the case each time I try.

Well it's not really brass, it's Wolf ammo but you know what I mean.

Of course I don't have a .22 cal cleaning rod, I only have an OTIS so I need to go and get a real rod and pop this round out the hard way but till then any idea on why I'm having the failures?

I know it's only 3 failures in roughly 1800 rounds with crap ammo but I should get better reliability than this I would think.

When I started out the rifle was clean, and I even let it cool down a little between mags, even though I don't really rapid fire.

Oh... and when I took it down after the range trip I notice there's signs of blow-by from the 2 holes on the side of the bolt... it this normal?




A friend of mine had his RRA jammed up in the same manner the other day at the range... we were shooting Wolf Polymer and his had a FTE with the case jammed in the chamber... had to take a cleaning rod and my bayonet (used as a hammer) to dislodge the case...... I imagine a good cleaning with a bronze chamber brush and some clp or other suitable solvent/lube will clear up this problem.....

As for Wolf ammo... some rifles eat the stuff like there was no tomorrow, and then there are rifles that will not reliably run it at all, and there are some rifles that fall in between these two extremes..... I would hazard a guess (as I am not privy to your maintenance habits) to say that this is not a problem with the rifle, but more an issue with the ammo......

Try running some of the "good" stuff in the rifle after you thoroughly clean the chamber and the rest of the rifle to see if the problem persists..... Gas blow from the side of the bolt through the vents (holes) in the exposed side of the bolt is normal (at night or low light you may even see fire exiting these vents)....

Let us know what is going on.......
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:37:35 PM EDT
This might be a long shot, it could be the wulf.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:48:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By scootershooter:
I think wolf ammo is clear coated. this matl. is coming off inside the chamber and causing your failure to eject.





Yesterday called...............He wants his post back!







Travis
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 4:51:37 PM EDT



Let it go allready!

Wolf is great and good for you too!


Travis


Don't drink the Koolaid, or maybe you should
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:01:27 PM EDT
Wolf ammo has quite the history on AR15.com of getting stuck in chambers, be it because of laquer or whatever. Regardless of the cause, there's no denying that it happens.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:38:48 AM EDT
Thanks for the replies...

I was sure I had cleaned it very well, including the chamber. Once I get it un-jammed I'll know more.... I hope.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:49:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 11:49:40 AM EDT by boltcatch]
The moral of this story, is to own a USGI cleaning kit so that you can use the rod when this happens. Also, buy a broken shell extractor, too. All of that is about $15, so you really have no excuse.

I clean with an Otis kit myself, but there is always a USGI kit in my buttstock. Everyone else is always borrowing it because they don't have one, and they get crap stuck in their rifles.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:53:04 AM EDT
check to see if your D-Fender is riding up on the spring. Mine did that and I was having FTE issues because if it. Took it out and it worked fine.

That said, I've never had problems with Wolf in my ARs, but I did have some problems with the cases getting stick in my Glock 23.

You have a .223 or 5.56 chamber?
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:35:19 PM EDT
I've never fired Wolf through mine but I've had a stuck case when using Bernaul. Destroyed an aluminum cleaning rod trying to clear it at the range. Finally got it out and thought I had the chamber clean but the next time out it locked up again.

Chucked a length of cleaning rod with a chamber brush in a hand drill and made sure the chamber was truly clean. No problems since.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 1:43:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By boltcatch:
The moral of this story, is to own a USGI cleaning kit so that you can use the rod when this happens. Also, buy a broken shell extractor, too. All of that is about $15, so you really have no excuse.

I clean with an Otis kit myself, but there is always a USGI kit in my buttstock. Everyone else is always borrowing it because they don't have one, and they get crap stuck in their rifles.



I was just thinking the same thing... If I had one of those I'd be back in action... Instead, my lame ass doesn't even have a 22 cal cleaning rod.


check to see if your D-Fender is riding up on the spring. Mine did that and I was having FTE issues because if it. Took it out and it worked fine.

That said, I've never had problems with Wolf in my ARs, but I did have some problems with the cases getting stick in my Glock 23.

You have a .223 or 5.56 chamber?



The D-Fender moves over the spring pretty freely... I wondered about that when I first got it. I'm not sure what Bushmasters chambers are, .223 or 5.56 .
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 1:45:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
I've never fired Wolf through mine but I've had a stuck case when using Bernaul. Destroyed an aluminum cleaning rod trying to clear it at the range. Finally got it out and thought I had the chamber clean but the next time out it locked up again.

Chucked a length of cleaning rod with a chamber brush in a hand drill and made sure the chamber was truly clean. No problems since.



Hrm, thanks for the tip... I'll try that too.
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 4:42:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/18/2006 4:50:19 PM EDT by JeffCsr]
Got my "G.I." cleaning kit today so I put the metal rod together and began to palm strike the rod to get the casing out.... No luck, it wouldn't budge... So I got a hammer and whacked it several more times and the case finally came out. Boy that was one stuck case.

The case wasn't blown and the primer looked normal, the only flaw I could see was a heavy scratch from tail to neck which must have been when the bolt jammed against this round previously (2 rounds ago) I now think I shouldn't try to fire rounds that were involved in malfunctions... Ammo's too cheap, Rifles aren't, it isn't worth the risk. I'm not sure how much is normal but I miked the empty and it was .007 fatter at the neck to around .002 near the rim everywhere I measured than an unfired Wolf round.

I cleaned the chamber and it was completely nasty... nastier than 150 rounds should be. I took the chamber brush and chucked it in my cordless and polished the build up away, and that took quite some time to get it really clean. So I now have a new respect for keeping the chamber CLEAN.

edited: remeasured the casing
Link Posted: 3/18/2006 5:13:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JeffCsr:
Got my "G.I." cleaning kit today so I put the metal rod together and began to palm strike the rod to get the casing out.... No luck, it wouldn't budge... So I got a hammer and whacked it several more times and the case finally came out. Boy that was one stuck case.

Congratulations! This tells me that my range bag NEEDS a GI cleaning rod ASAP!


Originally Posted By JeffCsr:
I now think I shouldn't try to fire rounds that were involved in malfunctions... Ammo's too cheap, Rifles aren't, it isn't worth the risk.

Well said.

Originally Posted By JeffCsr:
I have a new respect for keeping the chamber CLEAN.

Here here! While most ARs will deal quite well with getting gunky and being left to marinate in the stuff, sometimes you run into a combination of circumstances that makes the "I've NEVER cleaned my rifle" crowd get kind of quiet.. Like this one. I personally think that the "not trying to fire rounds involved in malfunctions" bit is the more important part of the equation (that recoil spring driving the BCG can hammer things in pretty hard!), but having a dirty chamber to start with could not help the matter at all.
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