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Posted: 3/10/2006 1:19:57 AM EDT
I am planning to rebuild my CAR-15 when I purchased it, it patterns about 6” low and to the right so I don’t really enjoy shooting it, and don’t. So I decided to do a rebuild and here are my "issues"...

I live in California, but its okay it's a pre-ban rifle.

I want a good blending of accuracy but with some of the more M4 goodies (CQB), so I figure I would get a Knights Armament Free Floating RAS upper. However their bull rifles have no flash suppressor/bayonet lug and after the price I paid for it, whatever I do to it, it better have that flash suppressor and bayonet lug (it's a principle thing). Though I bet the flash suppressor and lug will tweak with the accuracy anyway, and I may have to end up with a standard/heavy barrel.

Should I even get a bull barrel what is the typical MOA accuracy with a standard/heavy rifle barrel or what should I expect? What should I consider as options? Mostly I take it out for plinking and squirrels, but I may want to do some training with it as well and it will be B.Y.O-AR. With the way it patterns it is rather an embarrassment. Also what is this CRYO-Accurizing process I heard of?

Basically what would be a dream ar-15 set up keep in mind I am stuck with my lower (did I say I live in California) and what are some good companies out there with good reputations.

As for M4 goodies, I was thinking of getting the EO-tech sight but with a fixed front sight get in the way of my sight picture, or should I get a removable/pop-up sights like the ARMS (rear) and DPMS (front). What would be a better set up? I haven't even gotten onto the subject of optics and lighting yet as well so any suggestions and opinions will be greatly received.

Lastly who could recommend a good Armorer in California as well?

Thanks in advance for your input.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 3:11:43 AM EDT
I cannot comment on anything California, so my suggestion assumes you know what is legal and not

Go through the AR15 photo threads and identify a general set-up you like.

example: Here is GhostRing's pic (first one in the thread)



I'd then list the parts here I do not have to make mine like this

I would then shop each part for the best source for price availability and service

Buy them

Put them on, or in the case of barrel work I may have a certified armorer do it.


Specifically, I would ditch the bull barrel idea. AR15's are popular in part due to their light design. Don't load up unnecessary weight for one tenth of a percent increase in accuracy

Get a good collapsible stock, Knights RAS rail set up, a Troy BUIS, and Aimpoint or EOTech, and a proper M4 style barrel and you are livin large.

In summary, plan it out, pace yourself by budget or design, and enjoy the process

They are really a blast once you get a set-up and design you like

Good luck and remember to post the pix!!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 3:13:07 AM EDT
and what a sexy example!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:50:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ronin8211:


I live in California, but its okay it's a pre-ban rifle.







Just because its a preban it doesnt mean you can have it, hell if it were that way in Kalipornia, everybody would
just buy them in that configuration. To my understanding, you wouldve have to purchase the rifle before the AWB
and then if you wanted to keep it you wouldve have to register it. Also I think you cant have any newly
purchased/produced 20-30rd mags either, only mags that were made before the ban..........

I think thats how it is in Kalipornia, please correct me if i'm wrong.

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:18:47 AM EDT
It is correct I bought it before the FEDERAL AWB so it's good to go before the STATE AWB which I had to register for. As for options I can pretty much do anything EXCEPT the front verticle fore end grip and Silencer.

I have been reading and these threads are great like the collaspable stock one and twist info is facinationg. I was also worried that I got a bad lower but after checking the PWA thread that made me feel a lot better.

When done I do plan to post a pic and explain why I chose my options.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 6:20:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ronin8211:
...Should I even get a bull barrel what is the typical MOA accuracy with a standard/heavy rifle barrel or what should I expect? What should I consider as options? Mostly I take it out for plinking and squirrels, but I may want to do some training with it as well and it will be B.Y.O-AR.


Then you definately don't want a Bull Barrel.

2 mechanical accuracy with decent ammo is pretty standard with a regular M4 barrel. HBARs won't shoot any better unless you buy a match grade barrel (about 2x the price and up) or get lucky.


Also what is this CRYO-Accurizing process I heard of?

A great way to dispose of income for little to no gains.


[What would be a better set up?

Fixed front sight, and folding rear sight (Troy is the best, ARMS #40 is good too).



I haven't even gotten onto the subject of optics

Sure you did - didn't you say you were going to use an EOTech?


Lastly who could recommend a good Armorer in California as well?

Randall of www.AR15barrels.com, he's in the LA area. He also carries LMT M4 uppers which would be a great choice for the type of shooting you described (light, yet sub 2moa capable).
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 6:22:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ronin8211:
It is correct I bought it before the FEDERAL AWB so it's good to go before the STATE AWB which I had to register for. As for options I can pretty much do anything EXCEPT the front verticle fore end grip and Silencer.



Why couldn't you add a VFG? Lots of Californians have them on their ARs.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 6:59:29 AM EDT
this may sound silly but why not ADJUST YOUR SIGHTS ?



Invisiblesoul
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 8:20:15 AM EDT
IF it's a legal registered CA AW, then you can do anything you want, except have a barrel shorter than 16".

Telescoping stocks, forward pistol grips, flash hiders, etc... even on post-94 rifles now that the Fed ban has sunsetted.

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 1:30:22 PM EDT
I did try to adjust my sights, and had others with more experience do the same and it has patterned the same (so I figured that eliminated operator error as it is the cause most of the time). I always assumed (yes I know ASSofU&ME) that it was because the barrel (10” with the 6” flash suppressor) was the cause.

Then again I know what my limitations are since I have had no formal AR-15 training (mine is in a Glock 22 and the good ‘ol 870). Which is why I joined up on this site to get some research in and make educated decisions instead of just throwing $ at it even though that is a different sort of fun.

As for the VFG (thanks for the new acronym!) I was still under the belief that I could not have that and will certainly double check.

As for optics I meant telescoped/magnification and NV, the EO-Tech to me seems that it does not magnify but instead is a holographic red-dot system. By the way those EO-Tech pics in the optics forum were terrific!

Once again thank you all for your input and time
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