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Posted: 3/1/2006 3:32:05 PM EDT
So my roommate tried to order an RRA A2 lower from a dealer down here in Melbourne, Florida, where we go to college. He has a NY State driver license (his parents live in Rensselaer county). The FFL refused to transfer the lower for him, stating that this transaction would be illegal.

1) Was the dealer correct?
2) How can my roommate obtain an A2 lower while studying in Florida?



Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:38:15 PM EDT
Have him get a FL DL w/ his current addy in FL...
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:42:45 PM EDT
No the dealer is wrong as long as its a noncollapsible stock on a post 94 lower, that lower is legal in NY
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:43:31 PM EDT
Dealer is correct, for your friend to get the lower he would have to have the FL dealer transfer the lower to a NY FFL (assuming the lower is legal in NY) then your friend as a resident of NY could take possession and bring it down to FL.

-or-

Become a resident of FL.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:52:10 PM EDT
What your friend needs is to show proof of FL residence (lease, utility bill, etc.). As long as he is a US citizen he can have a residence in multiple states. He is considered to be a resident of the state he is physically in at the time as long as he has a residence there. The easiest thing is probably for him to get a FL ID card or have the dealer read the back of the transfer form (4473). It is all explained there. Also a long gun may be transfered to a NY resident in FL as long as it does not violate the laws of either state. But it sounds like your roomate is a FL resident, he just needs the right documentation.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:08:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunnut284:
What your friend needs is to show proof of FL residence (lease, utility bill, etc.). As long as he is a US citizen he can have a residence in multiple states. He is considered to be a resident of the state he is physically in at the time as long as he has a residence there. The easiest thing is probably for him to get a FL ID card or have the dealer read the back of the transfer form (4473). It is all explained there. Also a long gun may be transfered to a NY resident in FL as long as it does not violate the laws of either state. But it sounds like your roomate is a FL resident, he just needs the right documentation.



That's what I'm saying...
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:18:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunnut284:
What your friend needs is to show proof of FL residence (lease, utility bill, etc.)



My roommate doesn't want to get a FL driver license because his parents are paying car insurance in NY. *sigh*

Your comment does bring up a question though. I am down here as a "non immigrant alien" (I'm Canadian). In order to purchase a firearm, I need

a) Florida driver license.
b) Florida hunting license.

I can obtain both. Now here is where the issue lies: the same dealer said he would not transfer a firearm to me unless I could provide him with utility bills or a lease agreement, in order to prove my residency. I have neither, because up to this point I've been living on campus and all such bills and agreements are incorporated into my room&board fees. He said he wouldn't take any documents produced by the school itself. So basically in order to transfer a firearm I'd have to move off campus and rent an apartment.

The ATF website states that certain non immigrant aliens are allowed to purchase firearms, and those include aliens who possess a valid State issued hunting license. Nowhere does it say anything about having to live in an apartment.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:56:36 PM EDT
Under the law, if you're attending school out of state you are not considered to have domicile in that state. So if I'm a FL resident attending school in Georgia, I'm still a resident of FL and not a Georgia resident. You have to live in that state with no ties to the old state or plans on returning.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:13:01 PM EDT
Think id post in the WTB section of the EE and do a FTF if its legal there in the state.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:37:07 PM EDT
How is this any different than say a NYC resident buying an AR15 (pre or postban) from a shop in another part of NY and leaving it at a friends house not within NYC where they are legal to possess. No law against that. I would say the NY buyer in FL has to comply with NYS law if he was intending on bringing it back to NY unless FL has a specific law against out of staters possessing these.

Heck, my Canadian friend owned a FAL in NY and numerous handguns while living in Arizona. No dealer ever said because these are illegal or need licenses in Canada he can't buy them here. I think your dealer is paranoid.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:40:57 PM EDT
Unless Fla has some special law, your roommate should be able to purchase the lower. I purchase rifles from dealers all over the country and never get any hassle as long as the background check comes back OK, and it does so I leave with my rifle. No pistols though, not allowed.

Nevada will only sell to in-state people, caused me to miss a heck of a good deal there.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:52:08 PM EDT
Get a FL DL and find a new dealer to do the transfer.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:58:44 PM EDT
When I was stationed in Mississippi, I bought several firearms using my Texas driver's license and a recent power bill showing that I was "residing" in MS. How is this different from being a student at a university? Would being a dormitory resident be a different situation from sharing a rental house with a few roommates?

I'm really confused, particularly about the "no ties to the other state or intention to return" thing. For VOTING residence is based on intention-I'd think there would be something in CFR or other authoritative source to say exactly what constitutes "residence" for firearms purchase purposes.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:23:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GHPorter:
When I was stationed in Mississippi, I bought several firearms using my Texas driver's license and a recent power bill showing that I was "residing" in MS. How is this different from being a student at a university? Would being a dormitory resident be a different situation from sharing a rental house with a few roommates?

I'm really confused, particularly about the "no ties to the other state or intention to return" thing. For VOTING residence is based on intention-I'd think there would be something in CFR or other authoritative source to say exactly what constitutes "residence" for firearms purchase purposes.



I'm just explaining what the law considers domicile, specifically for the purpose of bringing suit. How that applies to purchasing a firearm I don't know or pretend to know and didn't say. I'd imagine that it might have some bearing if a state statute prohibits sale to anyone not domiciled in the state, but that would have to be evaluated that case-by-case.

So it could be just worthless info .
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:32:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911:
Under the law, if you're attending school out of state you are not considered to have domicile in that state. So if I'm a FL resident attending school in Georgia, I'm still a resident of FL and not a Georgia resident. You have to live in that state with no ties to the old state or plans on returning.



For tax purposes I am considered to be a resident of Florida, because I attend school here. You've just confused me further.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:11:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlexNenadic:

Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911:
Under the law, if you're attending school out of state you are not considered to have domicile in that state. So if I'm a FL resident attending school in Georgia, I'm still a resident of FL and not a Georgia resident. You have to live in that state with no ties to the old state or plans on returning.



For tax purposes I am considered to be a resident of Florida, because I attend school here. You've just confused me further.



Hmm... did you collect any earnings while in Florida? I don't know your situation so I could only guess. I'm sure that when it comes time to tax you the federal and state governements are willing to relax their requirements a bit . They're more than happy to collect your money either way .
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:22:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 7:26:43 PM EDT by boltcatch]

Under the law, if you're attending school out of state you are not considered to have domicile in that state. So if I'm a FL resident attending school in Georgia, I'm still a resident of FL and not a Georgia resident. You have to live in that state with no ties to the old state or plans on returning.


Not neccesarily true. It depends on what you choose to list as your residence - you're over 18, and if that's where you say you live (and you do live there), thats where you live. They can't deny you that just because you're a student. Where you get problems is when you keep your parent's home as your permanent address.

I've lived in and traveled to more than one state as a student and never had any problems buying firearms in any of them. Unlike a private sale, you don't need to have an FFL in that state send it to yours -- the entire point in requiring an FFL is due to the interstate transaction, but there is an FFL right there in front of you.

Some dealers refuse to sell to certain state's residents, however, due to various state laws.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:26:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By boltcatch:

Under the law, if you're attending school out of state you are not considered to have domicile in that state. So if I'm a FL resident attending school in Georgia, I'm still a resident of FL and not a Georgia resident. You have to live in that state with no ties to the old state or plans on returning.


Not neccesarily true. It depends on how much mommy and daddy are supporting you. .



Nope, nope, and no.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:28:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 7:29:46 PM EDT by boltcatch]
Edited for clarification. If you're a student and you're living in a state, then if you otherwise meet the residency requirements (time living there, taxes, etc.), IT'S YOUR STATE, should you choose to make it so. If you can't handle that you probably have no business with a weapon anyways.

Even then, you still may not need to do anything. With a PA license I bought plenty of firearms in NY state, for example.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:30:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By boltcatch:

Under the law, if you're attending school out of state you are not considered to have domicile in that state. So if I'm a FL resident attending school in Georgia, I'm still a resident of FL and not a Georgia resident. You have to live in that state with no ties to the old state or plans on returning.


Not neccesarily true. It depends on what you choose to list as your residence - you're over 18, and if that's where you say you live (and you do live there), thats where you live. They can't deny you that just because you're a student. Where you get problems is when you keep your parent's home as your permanent address.
\



Yep, yep, and yes
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:33:59 PM EDT
I am a CT resident, I have friends who are from all over the country to include Alaska and Hawaii and we go to school in VT. None have had problems buying firearms in VT as we spend enough time out of the year here. As long as you have a legit address in the state your living in I see no problems.

Steve
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:37:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AlexNenadic:

Originally Posted By gunnut284:
What your friend needs is to show proof of FL residence (lease, utility bill, etc.)



My roommate doesn't want to get a FL driver license because his parents are paying car insurance in NY. *sigh*

Your comment does bring up a question though. I am down here as a "non immigrant alien" (I'm Canadian). In order to purchase a firearm, I need

a) Florida driver license.
b) Florida hunting license.

I can obtain both. Now here is where the issue lies: the same dealer said he would not transfer a firearm to me unless I could provide him with utility bills or a lease agreement, in order to prove my residency. I have neither, because up to this point I've been living on campus and all such bills and agreements are incorporated into my room&board fees. He said he wouldn't take any documents produced by the school itself. So basically in order to transfer a firearm I'd have to move off campus and rent an apartment.

The ATF website states that certain non immigrant aliens are allowed to purchase firearms, and those include aliens who possess a valid State issued hunting license. Nowhere does it say anything about having to live in an apartment.



The FFL is correct. cellphone bills for the last 3 months with your name and FL address should suffice.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:38:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 7:39:07 PM EDT by chakarji]

Originally Posted By AlexNenadic:
So my roommate tried to order an RRA A2 lower from a dealer down here in Melbourne, Florida, where we go to college. He has a NY State driver license (his parents live in Rensselaer county). The FFL refused to transfer the lower for him, stating that this transaction would be illegal.

1) Was the dealer correct?
2) How can my roommate obtain an A2 lower while studying in Florida?




bro read this
in the state of florida you can get a FLORIDA ONLY drivers license.
you keep youre out of state license and are issued one for florida as well,,, all you need is proof of residency..... I have one .....
i live in Maryland and have a home in orlando,,
i carry both a valid MD license and a "Florida Only" license.

just go to the dmv and say i want a florida only license
hope it helps

Hanna
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:48:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 7:49:28 PM EDT by Dace]

Originally Posted By GHPorter:
When I was stationed in Mississippi, I bought several firearms using my Texas driver's license and a recent power bill showing that I was "residing" in MS. How is this different from being a student at a university? Would being a dormitory resident be a different situation from sharing a rental house with a few roommates?

I'm really confused, particularly about the "no ties to the other state or intention to return" thing. For VOTING residence is based on intention-I'd think there would be something in CFR or other authoritative source to say exactly what constitutes "residence" for firearms purchase purposes.



Think about how the state thinks.

An in state resident gets a bigger break on attending schools in state. You know out of state tuition and in state tuition. So most states have rules that say if you are a student from out of state going to school in state, just going to school there doesnt automatically make you a resident of that state. You have to do more then just go to school and live on campus. Each state differs with what entails being a resident.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:55:25 PM EDT
This isn' rocket science. He has a proof of residence problem. Few FFL's will accept utility bills as proof of residence because they do not prove residence even though other sources may accept them as proof. CC, DL, State ID cards are normally all that would be accepted. Tell him to try other dealers as there is a good chance he may find one stupid enough to accept an alternative proof of residence.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 6:57:51 AM EDT
Go to the shop and read the transfer form (4473). All is explained on the form and the instructions on the back.

You can have more than one state of residence. If I have a house(residence, not rental property) in FL and one in NY then I am a resident of whichever of those states I am actually in at the time (for the purpose of purchasing a firearm, at least).

If you are not a citizen you can buy a firearm (long gun) if you have a valid hunting license and can show residence for 90 days. In FL you have to have hunter safety to buy a hunting license if you were born after 6/1/75.

To show residence in your state you need a lease agreement, utility bills or government issued documentation (like tax document). A cellphone bill would not be good enough (for me at least as it does not prove you live at a location just that your mail is delivered there).

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:23:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gunnut284:
Go to the shop and read the transfer form (4473). All is explained on the form and the instructions on the back.

You can have more than one state of residence. If I have a house(residence, not rental property) in FL and one in NY then I am a resident of whichever of those states I am actually in at the time (for the purpose of purchasing a firearm, at least).

If you are not a citizen you can buy a firearm (long gun) if you have a valid hunting license and can show residence for 90 days. In FL you have to have hunter safety to buy a hunting license if you were born after 6/1/75.

To show residence in your state you need a lease agreement, utility bills or government issued documentation (like tax document). A cellphone bill would not be good enough (for me at least as it does not prove you live at a location just that your mail is delivered there).




Rgr that, tax documentation I do have.
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