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Posted: 2/27/2006 9:51:37 AM EDT
I wanted to ask this question of those who have experience with many of the AR15 triggers in use today.

Based on Function Only with Cost NOT being a Factor:
Where would the Knight's Trigger be rated in the overall list of AR15 triggers?

For the sake of this discussion for use shooting in Highpower Service Rifle Matches or for an SPR type rifle?

Link Posted: 2/27/2006 10:04:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 10:50:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 10:51:27 AM EDT by Humminbird]

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By danhits:
I wanted to ask this question of those who have experience with many of the AR15 triggers in use today.

Based on Function Only with Cost NOT being a Factor:
Where would the Knight's Trigger be rated in the overall list of AR15 triggers?

For the sake of this discussion for use shooting in Highpower Service Rifle Matches or for an SPR type rifle?




I put the KAC behind the cheaper Geissele trigger.


C4

www.GRTactical.com



I've seen new KAC units for sale at $225, the Geissele is $279 last I checked. Your statement is not fair, good deals can be found for the Knight's unit.

Anyway, the original poster didn't define his idea of trigger function, so we are left to assume that he is talking about the mechanical properties only, with no consideration to factors like spare parts interchangeability and ease of installation. Is this correct? If it is, then the Geissele probably offers the best trigger pull and is slightly above KAC.

However, KAC has some features that Geissele doesn't offer. The Geissele is not a drop in unit (requires disassembly of the safety and pistol grip according to the instructions) and it uses a proprietary hammer pin. The KAC is a true drop in trigger and uses standard parts. It's up to the user how he values these features. Competition shooters need not worry about such things much I would think. Soldiers in combat might find parts interchangeability a definete plus, though.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 11:00:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 2:20:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 2:22:53 PM EDT by Banzai]

Originally Posted By danhits:
I wanted to ask this question of those who have experience with many of the AR15 triggers in use today.

Based on Function Only with Cost NOT being a Factor:
Where would the Knight's Trigger be rated in the overall list of AR15 triggers?

For the sake of this discussion for use shooting in Highpower Service Rifle Matches or for an SPR type rifle?




OK, I'm gonna chime in here on the statement highlighted above.

First off, in Highpower, the Milazzo trigger has been the defacto perfect trigger for quite some time. He's almost impossible to find, and does not sell over the net, so that's out as far as an option for most normal human mortals.

Every firing line in HP will have someone with spare parts for a Jewell, so it's pretty much the competation standard. Not the best, just a lot of distribution. There are a lot of pros and cons to the Jewell, but it's a fine competation trigger that can easily be tuned for a wide variety of trigger pulls.

There are an ass ton of the Armalite/RRA/etc style triggers out there, mostly because price and ease of aquisition.

Knight triggers in HP are few and far between. Not unheard of, but usually only fielded by the .mil teams or other .mil affiliated teams as well as a few individuals.

The Geissle will make it's comp debut this season with quite a few shooters, I'm sure, as general sales are going as fast as retailers can stock them.

An SPR is not a competation gun, so you're unlikely to find anything other than a combat proven trigger in one, such as a Knight.

I have several KACs and just recently got a Geissle. I have to say that , with 2k rounds through it, the G unit is every bit as nice as the KAC, and nicer in some respects.

If you're gonna buy one, you won't be dissapointed with either, as they're both top end units.

Tom

PS, if you can find a KAC trigger for $225 new that the retailer can actually deliver on, you'dd better get it!
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 2:46:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 5:33:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 5:33:51 PM EDT by JosephR]

Originally Posted By Humminbird:

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By danhits:
I wanted to ask this question of those who have experience with many of the AR15 triggers in use today.

Based on Function Only with Cost NOT being a Factor:
Where would the Knight's Trigger be rated in the overall list of AR15 triggers?

For the sake of this discussion for use shooting in Highpower Service Rifle Matches or for an SPR type rifle?




I put the KAC behind the cheaper Geissele trigger.


C4

www.GRTactical.com



I've seen new KAC units for sale at $225 USED, the Geissele is $279 last I checked JUST NOW. Your statement is not fair, good deals can be found for the Knight's unit. Not on NIW triggers.

Anyway, the original poster didn't define his idea of trigger function, so we are left to assume that he is talking about the mechanical properties only, yeah- you can pretty much assume that. you are trying too hard... so i'm notwith no consideration to factors like spare parts interchangeability and ease of installation. Is this correct? If it is, then the Geissele probably offers the best trigger pull and is slightly above KAC.

However, KAC has some features that Geissele doesn't offer. The Geissele is not a drop in unit (requires disassembly of the safety and pistol grip according to the instructions) for ease of installation more than likely- my stock trigger goes in better without the safety in place and it uses a proprietary hammer pin. The KAC is a true drop in trigger and uses standard parts. the KAC's instructions recommend filing and fitting of the hammer It's up to the user how he values these features. Competition shooters need not worry about such things much I would think. Soldiers in combat might find parts interchangeability a definete plus, though.



blah blah blah

Link Posted: 2/28/2006 5:19:03 PM EDT
Still listening. Reading in between the lines as well. Hoping for more opinions, input and discussion.
Link Posted: 2/28/2006 7:20:52 PM EDT
I'll inject here with a personal opinion...not meant to encourage a lengthly KAC vs. Geissele battle thread...

I just replaced my RRA 2 stage with a Geissele...

Man, is this thing SWEET!!! The first stage is exceptionally refined and smooth...the second stage breaks like a pane of glass...incredibly crisp.

It took me a little while to stomach justifying the cost of a Geissele...but the engineering mechanics, quality, and adjustment flexibility is amazing. Is it worth the money? Long term, probably...I think the attention to resilency and ruggedness will make it a trigger that will outlast some mainstream units. For short term fullfillment, the performance and feel of the trigger will give you plenty of fixes to take your mind off of the lightened wallet.

+1 for Geissele. I'm a believer now. It fit into my AR-10 beautifully...pins were tight and did not walk...was symmetrical on both sides. Good thing, as you cannot use KNS pins due to the OEM nature of the Geissele grooves in the pins.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 5:54:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mthr1:
Good thing, as you cannot use KNS pins due to the OEM nature of the Geissele grooves in the pins.




As per an email I recieved from Geissle: You CAN use the KNS pins, but it will take a little while for the circlip in the hammer to wear down on the KNS pins and smooth out. You may or may not notice the drag until that happens, but until it does, the hammer swing will NOT be as smooth as originally designed. After that, your Geissle trigger is married to those pins because the circlip in the hammer won't be able to grip the groove in the factory Geissle pin.

Tom
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 6:20:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mthr1:
I'll inject here with a personal opinion...not meant to encourage a lengthly KAC vs. Geissele battle thread...

I just replaced my RRA 2 stage with a Geissele...

Man, is this thing SWEET!!! The first stage is exceptionally refined and smooth...the second stage breaks like a pane of glass...incredibly crisp.

It took me a little while to stomach justifying the cost of a Geissele...but the engineering mechanics, quality, and adjustment flexibility is amazing. Is it worth the money? Long term, probably...I think the attention to resilency and ruggedness will make it a trigger that will outlast some mainstream units. For short term fullfillment, the performance and feel of the trigger will give you plenty of fixes to take your mind off of the lightened wallet.

+1 for Geissele. I'm a believer now. It fit into my AR-10 beautifully...pins were tight and did not walk...was symmetrical on both sides. Good thing, as you cannot use KNS pins due to the OEM nature of the Geissele grooves in the pins.




Yup, I got one for my AR10, and loved it so much I had to get one for my SPR. So far no problems.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:27:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Mthr1:
I'll inject here with a personal opinion...not meant to encourage a lengthly KAC vs. Geissele battle thread...

I just replaced my RRA 2 stage with a Geissele...

Man, is this thing SWEET!!! The first stage is exceptionally refined and smooth...the second stage breaks like a pane of glass...incredibly crisp.

It took me a little while to stomach justifying the cost of a Geissele...but the engineering mechanics, quality, and adjustment flexibility is amazing. Is it worth the money? Long term, probably...I think the attention to resilency and ruggedness will make it a trigger that will outlast some mainstream units. For short term fullfillment, the performance and feel of the trigger will give you plenty of fixes to take your mind off of the lightened wallet.

+1 for Geissele. I'm a believer now. It fit into my AR-10 beautifully...pins were tight and did not walk...was symmetrical on both sides. Good thing, as you cannot use KNS pins due to the OEM nature of the Geissele grooves in the pins.



^
^
^
^

What he said
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:18:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 5:26:57 PM EDT by trigger_girl]
Thanks for all the great comments on the triggers.

heidi.turing@geissele.com
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 3:50:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 4:06:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:35:57 AM EDT
Bump to bring back up the link to Big Bore's excellent discussions of triggers
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:17:47 AM EDT
The hat fits well, and I have had more than a few interesting conversations while standing in checkout lines. Oh, we were talking about triggers. The Geissele also works perfectly with both of my 22 LR conversions, the M261 and Ciener. No spring or firing pin modifications needed.

I took a look at the new web page for Geissel triggers and am very pleased that they are addressing most every segment of the AR market. Lets see, quality product, accessibility to the designer and sales folks, and on line ordering. What's not to like.

Craig
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 10:04:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bearbait1:
The hat fits well, and I have had more than a few interesting conversations while standing in checkout lines. Oh, we were talking about triggers. The Geissele also works perfectly with both of my 22 LR conversions, the M261 and Ciener. No spring or firing pin modifications needed.

I took a look at the new web page for Geissel triggers and am very pleased that they are addressing most every segment of the AR market. Lets see, quality product, accessibility to the designer and sales folks, and on line ordering. What's not to like.

Craig



Pretty much only the price. That said I have one of them and have been amazed with not only the trigger, but the company. I am going to buy a second one from them for my next build.

-C4-
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:38:55 AM EDT
C4,

For me the price was a non issue when used with my QCB. With a few calibers and a handful of barrels on one lower, it is a small investment in light of the entire system. If I were trying to retrofit more than one lower, it could be tough.

Craig
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:52:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bearbait1:
C4,

For me the price was a non issue when used with my QCB. With a few calibers and a handful of barrels on one lower, it is a small investment in light of the entire system. If I were trying to retrofit more than one lower, it could be tough.

Craig



Right. That is actually why I went with it.... I am planning on getting more than one upper for this lower and didn't mind spending the extra money on the trigger.

-C4-
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 7:53:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 7:54:18 AM EDT by danhits]
Thank you all for your input and opinions. I bought a KAC for this build. I will try a Geissele for my next project.
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