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Posted: 2/23/2006 8:45:10 PM EDT
because the range we have here is only rated for .22s, im thinking of getting a conversion kit for my ar. i looked at the ciener, because its the cheapest i can find, and theres one on gunbroker. i noticed that theres only a bolt adapter. how does the bullet stabilize in the barrel if the barrel is .223? i guess its not TOO much bigger, but just wondering. ive heard good things about the ciener, granted that you clean it routinely (should anyways). so is this a good buy? pros? cons? i have a 1/7 barrel, does that make the velocity too high or anything? thanks guys.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:10:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 10:36:51 PM EDT by Unreconstructed]
The .22LR bullet does flop a little going down the .223 bbl, but it is accurate enough for plinking. I think a slow twist like 1/12 is better for the 22LR, but I do not remember for sure.
I have seen several, and have never seen one run reliably. Mag issues are common, and most recommendations involve polishing the feed areas, etc.

I would love it if someone made a 22LR AR upper or conversion that would run full auto with high cap mags. For me, ciener isn't it. Does ciener still charge $59 for each 30 rd mag? That is a ridiculous price even if it was reliable. Anyway, HTH...

BTW, a range limited to 22LR? Obvious point is spend your range dollars where your evil black rifles are welcome. If not possible, that sucks... I would go with a 22LR rifle and pistol in that situation (have both threaded for one sound suppressor for fun), but I can understand why you want to shoot the black rifles... good shooting
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 1:00:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 1:12:26 AM EDT
I've got the ceiner kit and it's been great. I've shot it through both 1/7 and 1/9 barrels. The functioning has been excellent and the only problem I had was shooting subsonic 22lr, it didn't have enough recoil for it to be reliable (subsonics made it single shot), but regular 22lr and high power 22lr worked great. As for accuracy I used to shoot red squirels all the time with it at ~50 yards (in the 1/7 barrel with a wylde chamber), that's why I had subsonics to keep the neighbors happy. I have no experience with it's full auto preformance.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:40:28 AM EDT
the reason the range is only 22 is because im at miami university, and our NROTC unit has a pistol range underneath the basketball stadium. thats why its limited to .22s.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:21:27 PM EDT
Wow, I am just glad that you are allowed to possess a firearm on a college campus. There is some hope :)

My experience with the Ciener is full auto and I would not recommend it for auto reliability. It would be fun to show off the black rifle hanging out at the college range if you can get one that runs or tinker with it to get it there. I keep reading about guys that say theirs will run, I just have seen one myself.

If you are in ROTC good luck with your commission. I am a reconnaissance officer in the Army Guard.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:09:52 PM EDT
Get the ciener kit, on some weapons it takes a little tweaking to get it to run right. there are tips about it on the pistol calibers board. I have a dedicated upper w/ 1:16 twist (standard 22lr twist) that is very accurate & very quiet suppressed. & it runs in full auto very well, both with Rem Golden Bullets, and Win Dynapoint ammo. in a standard 1/7 or 1/9 bbl, you may or may not notice the accuracy diff. depends on your level of expertise. and the 30rd mags can be adjusted for reliable, I have 4 that run. only qualifier is I only load 27 rds, occaisionally I would get a FTF w/30 rds. but I can unload 27 rds real fast on the "Fun " setting!! down the road, or if you have the money now, get a Kuehl 22lr upper, it uses the ciener kit, and is a nice setup. Or get an old beater 22lr upper, and have a local gunsmith put a 22lr reline tube in it. Mike Klos, at www.american-manufacture.com does this, and the accuracy is much better than a 223 bore.
enjoy shooting!!
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:21:32 PM EDT
These American manufacturing guys are pretty funny, here's a few things off the first page of their site.

Servicing Law Enforcement, Licensed Dealers, and Qualified Individuals firearms needs since sometime around last Tuesday.

Services we offer
The two following methods of service are available:
1) Excellent Work/Workmanship
2) Fast and Cheap
(Only pick one please)

Is Kuehl going to stop making his .22 uppers? It says on his site that this is the last batch of barrels he is going to get in...ever. That's pretty messed up, I just now heard of the guy and I don't have the money to spend for a little while, hope I can still get one.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:15:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 8:20:06 PM EDT by ybh_613]
Get the ciener. It works great for me and I've had one for about I think 20-25 years.
I don't have a full-auto, but a friend does and we use the ciener in full auto mode in his 16.
I use federal 22lr from wallyworld in my Colt ar15.

ETA: I have a 16" 1-9 bbl and it works well out to 50yds. 1" to 1 1/2" at 50 and 1" at 25
Best would be 1-12.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:11:55 PM EDT
I am in ROTC, Marine ROTC. we are one of two in the country for NROTC that have our own range. with the new revision to the NROTC laws, every Naval officer up for commissioning MUST have full 9mm Quals completed. so, we're looking at upgrading our range for 9mm, but an estimate is 100-200,000 bucks. a little expensive. but thanks for the kind words! my goal is to some day lead Marines into battle.

...so, I think I am going to go for the Ciener conversion kit. thanks for all the help guys! I appreciate it!
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