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Posted: 2/23/2006 12:18:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 6:33:48 PM EDT by Ronnie66]
What are the disadvantages of a Free Float barrel? If any.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:19:47 PM EDT
they are harder to clean and oil the outside of the barrel.
you an use high pressure air or water to clean as best you can and spray with oil.
or go with a ss barrel and not dunk them in mud.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:23:17 PM EDT
Most, if not all true free-floats must be installed by removing the front sight base. I didn't find this to be a problem, but some might. I also Norrelled the barrel flat black before I put the float tube on so I don't really have to worry about corrosion or oiling the outside of the barrel. MJD
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:24:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 12:27:34 PM EDT by chris157c]
they are usually heavier than plastic handguards...

ETA: plastic handguard $15-$20

Freefloat costs a lot more
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:27:01 PM EDT
hk940
Could you recommend a good non free float that offers a good rail?
Trying to decide what type hand guards for my 20" build that I am working on.

Thanks

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:28:57 PM EDT
Knights armament...

I like the surefire ones, but some do not...

that's all i like...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:45:04 PM EDT
my FF is a lot heavier, but it is a lot more solid than any other rail handguard I have ever seen because it is mounted directly to the reciever, so there is no play.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:47:20 PM EDT
The biggest disadvantage of a free float barrel is the false advertising. They don't actually float.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:52:58 PM EDT
ARMS SIR - 2 pieces
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:08:59 PM EDT
I've got the YHM 2 pc non free float, works for me. Now I don't have to worry about melting the lip off under the HG cap.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:12:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:17:03 PM EDT
LaRue 12in. Cant go wrong.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:43:54 PM EDT
Thanks For The Help--
hk940
highwayman
chris157c
Napol­eon_Tanerite
Hokie
SamColt
HP40
Troy<­BR>JD42
Think I got everyone.

I think I am going to go with the Surefire M72. Found some at G&R Tactical.
Are these installed just like the standard A2 hand guards?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:58:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 5:59:34 PM EDT by chewbacca]
I would reccomend a FF system over a non FF. The disadvantages brought up can be nullified by using a Troy or Samson FF. They are both two peice systems so no disassembly required to install, just dremel off the D ring and install. Becasue of the two peice, it allos easy cleaning of outside of the barrel.

They are light wieght, rigid and of course...free flaoting.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:20:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
I use Daniel Defense FF railed handguards, and as a result, my rifles are LIGHTER than with normal plastic handguards. Many systems, even if they are heavier, are only an ounce or so heavier. A few are quite a bit more (KAC RAS II, nearly all ARMS SIRs, etc.), but that's usually the result of them being designed to be installed with minimal gunsmithing.

-Troy



Your talking about with the AL barrel nut right?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:20:31 PM EDT
I love my KACII rails, and after using them for a while I do not even notice the weight. And it is funny to hold one with standard HG's they are so light they feel like toys.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:50:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:04:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hokie:
The biggest disadvantage of a free float barrel is the false advertising. They don't actually float.




This is true, as I learned much to my sorrow in a tragic boating accident.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 8:38:34 PM EDT
What about the VLTOR system?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:28:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:

Originally Posted By Dace:
Your talking about with the AL barrel nut right?



Yes. I see no reason to use a steel barrel nut; the weaker part is the threaded ring on the upper receiver, not the barrel nut.

-Troy



I know, I was just seeing what but you were using in your weight comparison.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:34:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
The biggest disadvantage of a free float barrel is the false advertising. They don't actually float.




This is true, as I learned much to my sorrow in a tragic boating accident.



Did your boat capsize and your rifle sunk in the water!? Thats rough....real rough.

You could go scuba diving and try and find it, but if there is a current that probably moved it.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:38:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By James_Brown:

Originally Posted By JohnTheTexican:

Originally Posted By Hokie:
The biggest disadvantage of a free float barrel is the false advertising. They don't actually float.




This is true, as I learned much to my sorrow in a tragic boating accident.



Did your boat capsize and your rifle sunk in the water!? Thats rough....real rough.

You could go scuba diving and try and find it, but if there is a current that probably moved it.



A big magnet would work as well.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:41:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 9:42:56 PM EDT by Black-Tiger]
I know Samson mfg. makes a non-freefloat railed handguard that's on par with the KAC RAS II system.

Samson MRFS-DI; plus is cheaper than the KAC, so is a good choice.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 9:57:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 9:57:26 PM EDT by HercMech]

Originally Posted By Black-Tiger:
I know Samson mfg. makes a non-freefloat railed handguard that's on par with the KAC RAS II system.

Samson MRFS-DI; plus is cheaper than the KAC, so is a good choice.



The KAC RAS II is a free float system. The KAC RAS is the one that is not. Nice looking rails by Samson though.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:04:05 PM EDT
The Samson non free-float rails are pretty slick if you ask me, plus @ $199 MSRP, they are the cheapest of the bunch, which is always good.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:16:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:44:31 AM EDT
Thanks again guys, for the useful information. Really was not sure if I wanted to FF or not. Then I was leaning towards the Surefire, but I did not know the rail would not be level with the upper receiver.(Thanks Stickman) So now I'm looking at the Midwest Industries 2 peice.
Any issues with these I need to know, besides not being FF.....

That's what I like about this site, info, info, and more info..


Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:14:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:30:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 9:32:53 AM EDT by Trey-W]

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By Black-Tiger:
The Samson non free-float rails are pretty slick if you ask me, plus @ $199 MSRP, they are the cheapest of the bunch, which is always good.



I would go with either of those over a rail that is not level with the upper receiver like the Surefire. The Surefire locks up tight, but I can't see having a rail that won't line up with the upper.



Just for discussion, why would it matter? You won't be mounting any optics on there. An IR laser/illuminator maybe, but even then the laser will not be off by much and it isnt meant to be a 400yrd tool anyway.
Link Posted: 2/27/2006 3:50:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2006 3:53:13 AM EDT by metroplex]
Where are you seeing the Samsons for $199 and the MI for $130?? The cheapest I have seen are $250 and $163 respectively.

As for the accuracy gains, looking at RRA's catalog showing the various quad-rail FFHG setups and the standard A2/CAR/M4 handguards, and RRA's "accuracy" specs, I don't see a difference. The Guns and Ammo test of the S&W MP15 Tactical and Standard showed the Standard getting tighter groups. Some people blame the scope (Leupold CQ/T vs some 6.5x-20x scope).

I have read in the past that short sporter barrels (in our case, M4-profile, superlight, LW) generally do not show much benefits in precision from free floating, whereas free floating can improve precision with heavy-barrels. That is about the only reason I would consider FFHGs for my rifles (the precision improvements, if any).
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:32:48 PM EDT
How much will the POI be effected by mounting a bipod to a non FF handguard?
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:44:37 PM EDT
weight and cost is all i could think of
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:49:45 PM EDT
I would also like to menten that free-floating handguards will also heat up much faster. So if you're planning to handhold the rifle, you probably want some gloves.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:27:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
I would also like to menten that free-floating handguards will also heat up much faster. So if you're planning to handhold the rifle, you probably want some gloves.


honestly wiht me it's seemed the exact opposite..

My colt felt MUCH hotter with the standard guards whan with hte KAC FF.. Seems to cool faster too
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:34:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ronnie66:
How much will the POI be effected by mounting a bipod to a non FF handguard?



Any comments on POI with bipod?
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:42:36 PM EDT
An excelent non-FF for budget salaries is the MI #17. I love that product and have reccommended it 3 times today in 3 different threads. It's only a little over $100 whereas KAC rails run about $350. You do the math.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:47:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warlord:
I would also like to menten that free-floating handguards will also heat up much faster. So if you're planning to handhold the rifle, you probably want some gloves.



The barrel should be cooler. M4 handguards are designed to hold heat in, and that can cause cook-offs, from what I hear.

I don't have an auto, and I don't break contact, but I do believe that cooler is most always better.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 8:16:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ronnie66:

Originally Posted By Ronnie66:
How much will the POI be effected by mounting a bipod to a non FF handguard?



Any comments on POI with bipod?



On my MI #17 adding a bipod did nothing to POI and when standing or crouching, the vertical grip supported the bipod and vice-versa. Only time it would change is if I fired my rifle 1-handed
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 8:22:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 8:27:12 PM EDT by Cypher214]
Holy Misinformation, Batman!

1.) FF handguards don't heat up any faster than non-FF handguards. Most people use a VFG on their railed handguards anyway so it wouldn't matter either way. Most railed handguards have much much better ventilation than standard plastic handguards. Even without a VFG, your rail protectors are going to insulate your hand from any heat build-up. To claim that you need to wear gloves when shooting a rifle with a rail system is just nonsense.

2.) M4 handguards are not made to "hold heat in". The heat shields are there to keep the outer part of the handguard from getting warm during prolonged shooting. The M4 handguard has ventilation holes just like any other handguard. You'd have to try very very hard to have a cook-off in your AR-15.

3.) Using a bipod on a non-FF handguard will not change your POI... at least not enough for you to notice.

4.) Just like Troy pointed out, in many cases railed handguards are actually lighter than plastic handguards. They are definitely more durable. Most people here have never seen plastic handguards get broken or pop off, but some of us have.

5.) I can't recommend mounting a laser on a non-FF rail. There will be some play in the rail and you will lose zero. No matter what distance you are shooting, you don't want a laser that constantly changes its zero.

6.) You new guys that are offering advice on how to retreive an AR-15 from the bottom of a lake... that is a VERY VERY old joke on this site...


If you are going with a free-float rail, I recommend LaRue unless you have a permanent flash suppressor then I would go with a rail that clamps to the existing barrel nut.

For non free-float, I would go with whatever the guys who use the current products recommend.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:05:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cypher214:
Holy Misinformation, Batman!

1.) FF handguards don't heat up any faster than non-FF handguards. Most people use a VFG on their railed handguards anyway so it wouldn't matter either way. Most railed handguards have much much better ventilation than standard plastic handguards. Even without a VFG, your rail protectors are going to insulate your hand from any heat build-up. To claim that you need to wear gloves when shooting a rifle with a rail system is just nonsense.

2.) M4 handguards are not made to "hold heat in". The heat shields are there to keep the outer part of the handguard from getting warm during prolonged shooting. The M4 handguard has ventilation holes just like any other handguard. You'd have to try very very hard to have a cook-off in your AR-15.

3.) Using a bipod on a non-FF handguard will not change your POI... at least not enough for you to notice.
4.) Just like Troy pointed out, in many cases railed handguards are actually lighter than plastic handguards. They are definitely more durable. Most people here have never seen plastic handguards get broken or pop off, but some of us have.

5.) I can't recommend mounting a laser on a non-FF rail. There will be some play in the rail and you will lose zero. No matter what distance you are shooting, you don't want a laser that constantly changes its zero.

6.) You new guys that are offering advice on how to retreive an AR-15 from the bottom of a lake... that is a VERY VERY old joke on this site...


If you are going with a free-float rail, I recommend LaRue unless you have a permanent flash suppressor then I would go with a rail that clamps to the existing barrel nut.

For non free-float, I would go with whatever the guys who use the current products recommend.



Thanks for the input....

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