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Posted: 2/22/2006 10:13:35 PM EDT
Not trying to rag on it, but an honest question.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:20:10 PM EDT
Good for indoor/pistol caliber ranges
I hear they suppress well
Ammo interchangable with a pistol in SHTF scenarios

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:26:31 PM EDT
Also, cheap to shoot for practice (I put CCI Blazer from Academy through mine at $3.86/50).
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:30:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 10:30:50 PM EDT by Trigg]
Nevermind, someone beat me to it.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:44:16 PM EDT
Fun as hell and cheap to shoot
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:48:43 PM EDT
Good question, I don't think it's a "serious" rifle unless its 9MM full auto. What I don't understand is that these 9MM ARs seem to be more popular than the 7.62x39 ARs. That .30 cal round is also cheap and certainly packs more of a punch than 9MM.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:57:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
Good question, I don't think it's a "serious" rifle unless its 9MM full auto. What I don't understand is that these 9MM ARs seem to be more popular than the 7.62x39 ARs. That .30 cal round is also cheap and certainly packs more of a punch than 9MM.



No personal experience, but I've heard that reliable 7.62x39 AR mags are hard to find.

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:03:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bmick325:

Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
Good question, I don't think it's a "serious" rifle unless its 9MM full auto. What I don't understand is that these 9MM ARs seem to be more popular than the 7.62x39 ARs. That .30 cal round is also cheap and certainly packs more of a punch than 9MM.



No personal experience, but I've heard that reliable 7.62x39 AR mags are hard to find.




The new MGI lower that takes AK mags is the way of the future, but I don't know how much is known about timing such a weapon, let alone if chrome lined .310" bores are available.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:29:23 PM EDT
I want one because I want a well suppresed SBR.
9mm AR fits that bill.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:41:04 PM EDT
LRM M-169
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 11:57:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4A1OwnsYou:
Not trying to rag on it, but an honest question.




just ask the users of the MP-5

low penatration
1 typ of ammo 9mm same as most standard side arms
easy to carry lots of magazines 2, 30 rd 9mm mags = 1, 30 rd 5.56 mag in size
sten mags are cheap and can be made to work on 9mm conversions
5 good points
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 12:13:32 AM EDT
cheap to shoot
fun as hell
indoor range allowed
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:05:30 AM EDT
Great CQB weapon.........
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:23:31 AM EDT
Because we can.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 2:30:49 AM EDT
Because I have everything else already.

And when I'm done with this build, it will rock your socks off.

Link Posted: 2/23/2006 3:20:19 AM EDT
Why does this question come up once every couple of weeks. For me I had an extra .223 AR with the a carry handle that I never shot, I thought why not make a 9mm AR out of it so I can use it at nearby pistol ranges. There are MANY reasons why someone might want one:

1. Cheap ammo
2. Ability to use it a pistol range
3. Suppress well
4. Fun to shoot
5. Availabilty of AR-15 type accessories

I don't see a reason NOT to have one.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:48:05 AM EDT
In regards to cqb, the 9mm round has less of a chance going through what's behind your target. 5.56 fmj may go through a couple of walls, brick, doors, ect.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:51:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 6:08:58 AM EDT by Aerospace_Engineer]

In regards to cqb, the 9mm round has less of a chance going through what's behind your target. 5.56 fmj may go through a couple of walls, brick, doors, ect.


Ahhh, you may want to retract your baseless and misinformed statement...

Ammo Oracle!!!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:04:57 AM EDT
My Glock carries more ammo than the AR
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:05:10 AM EDT
I've always been fascinated by the 9mm ARs. I think they'd make a great plinker and just be an overall fun gun to shoot.

Yeah, didn't they say that the 9mm was actually more dangerous inside the home than the 5.56? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:10:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 6:10:50 AM EDT by Dace]

Originally Posted By ASU1911:

Originally Posted By bmick325:

Originally Posted By RangemasterP226:
Good question, I don't think it's a "serious" rifle unless its 9MM full auto. What I don't understand is that these 9MM ARs seem to be more popular than the 7.62x39 ARs. That .30 cal round is also cheap and certainly packs more of a punch than 9MM.



No personal experience, but I've heard that reliable 7.62x39 AR mags are hard to find.




The new MGI lower that takes AK mags is the way of the future, but I don't know how much is known about timing such a weapon, let alone if chrome lined .310" bores are available.



The "new" MGI lower just copys lowers that are already out there which accept AK mags. The only problems are bolt failurers, reliabilitys issues, have to mod your upper to allow the AK mags to fit, and the shitty performance of the 7.62x39 round. But ya other then those factors its the wave of the future.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:13:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
I want one because I want a well suppresed SBR.
9mm AR fits that bill.


Ditto.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:26:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SABRE20:
In regards to cqb, the 9mm round has less of a chance going through what's behind your target. 5.56 fmj may go through a couple of walls, brick, doors, ect.




Wrong, try again...
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:09:16 AM EDT
something different
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:32:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/23/2006 7:36:39 AM EDT by rcoers]

Originally Posted By all4freedom:
I've always been fascinated by the 9mm ARs. I think they'd make a great plinker and just be an overall fun gun to shoot.

Yeah, didn't they say that the 9mm was actually more dangerous inside the home than the 5.56? Correct me if I'm wrong.



Who is they? What do you mean by more dangerous? As in over pentration through walls?
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:34:24 AM EDT
Cheap ammo is the reason I have a 9mm AR.
I am pretty much a tightwad and the cheapest I can load/buy .223 is about 10 cents per round or $100 per thousand and that is using the cheapest bullets, closeout priced powder, and cases bought at scrap brass price.
I got a good deal on several thousand 9mm bullets and with the powder I was given from pulled down 9mm I can load 9mm's for about 3.2 cents or $32 per thousand.
Now that's what I call some cheap shootin considering .22LR is about $20 per thousand after sales tax.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:34:53 AM EDT
C.D.I.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:37:21 AM EDT
Quiet when suppressed, indoor range capable, steel popper capable.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:59:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rcoers:

Originally Posted By all4freedom:
I've always been fascinated by the 9mm ARs. I think they'd make a great plinker and just be an overall fun gun to shoot.

Yeah, didn't they say that the 9mm was actually more dangerous inside the home than the 5.56? Correct me if I'm wrong.



Who is they?



FBI for one....
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 11:32:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
cheap to shoot
fun as hell
indoor range allowed





+1
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 2:22:44 AM EDT
I also wanted something thats easy to suppress, which I will be doing in the future.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:39:56 AM EDT
There fun to shoot
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 4:32:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aerospace_Engineer:

In regards to cqb, the 9mm round has less of a chance going through what's behind your target. 5.56 fmj may go through a couple of walls, brick, doors, ect.


Ahhh, you may want to retract your baseless and misinformed statement...

Ammo Oracle!!!



There was a "Box O Truth" recently that put this to the test and it appears that the all knowing all seeing ammo-oracle has egg on it's face on this one. 55gr FMJ .223's were going through several sheets of drywall and not breaking up, sometimes keyholing and not breaking up.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:04:08 AM EDT
I'm by no means a ballistic expert or going to go against the Oracle, but I stick to my statement. The 9mm round has LESS OF A CHANCE going through what's behind your target.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:58:38 AM EDT
There is a reason L.E. SWAT teams and patrol officers in general are moving away from pistol carbines, aka MP-5s. (while excellent weapons) the 9mm hp is MORE likely to over penintrate than the 223 with HP or TAP type ammo. The 223 advantage is speed and franagble ammo. The 9mm is slow and won't break up like the 223. These are facts.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:18:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StewartTR:

Originally Posted By Aerospace_Engineer:

In regards to cqb, the 9mm round has less of a chance going through what's behind your target. 5.56 fmj may go through a couple of walls, brick, doors, ect.


Ahhh, you may want to retract your baseless and misinformed statement...

Ammo Oracle!!!



There was a "Box O Truth" recently that put this to the test and it appears that the all knowing all seeing ammo-oracle has egg on it's face on this one. 55gr FMJ .223's were going through several sheets of drywall and not breaking up, sometimes keyholing and not breaking up.




I'd be interested in seeing the tests and data that show 5.56 fmj's remain more lethal than 9mm after penetrating a "couple of walls, brick, doors, etc."

...and this box of truth was using 55gr fmj's, you say? I really would like to see the evidence.

If I have to take-out the 'bad guy' hiding behind a couple walls, bricks, doors, etc. (and I don't have to worry about hitting innocent people in the area) I'll take a 9mm AR over a 5.56/.223 AR every time.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:29:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 6:30:37 AM EDT by thebomber]
I love ARs. In fact I have 5 of them. Each one is different and one of them is a 9mm. For me it allows me to shoot a somewhat different weapon, yet still have the same platform. I was never interested in 9mms until about 2 months ago. I was looking at the 9mm gun porn thread and all of the sudden, I just had to have one. I'm glad I did, it's a hoot to shoot, but in a SHTF scenario, I'm reaching for my 5.56.




YMMV

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:42:11 AM EDT
Hey, speaking of bricks...

Have any of you guys shot-up a brick wall before?
That's got to be a satisfying reaction target for your AR to chew on!

Imagine this cool test scenario:

Find a large section of brick wall from an old house or fence/wall in a place where it's okay to shoot.
Someone gets a 5.56 AR with 300 rounds of 55gr fmj and another person get a 9mm AR with 300 rounds of say 115 fmj. (It would be interesting to test with different ammo types for both AR's)
One person with the 5.56 gets the right side of the wall, the other person with the 9mm gets the left side and both start shooting it up.
It would be interesting to see who does more damage to a brick wall after so many rounds...
...and see which does better at penetrating it, if at all.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:46:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aerospace_Engineer:
Hey, speaking of bricks...

Have any of you guys shot-up a brick wall before?
That's got to be a satisfying reaction target for your AR to chew on!

Imagine this cool test scenario:

Find a large section of brick wall from an old house or fence/wall in a place where it's okay to shoot.
Someone gets a 5.56 AR with 300 rounds of 55gr fmj and another person get a 9mm AR with 300 rounds of say 115 fmj. (It would be interesting to test with different ammo types for both AR's)
One person with the 5.56 gets the right side of the wall, the other person with the 9mm gets the left side and both start shooting it up.
It would be interesting to see who does more damage to a brick wall after so many rounds...
...and see which does better at penetrating it, if at all.



__

That would be an interesting test! As an aside, I've never understood the value of a pistol caliber round in a carbine other than to avoid over-penetration...speaking of "bricks"!

Link Posted: 2/24/2006 6:59:30 AM EDT
A 9mm AR is my latest WANT. I've decided to shoot bowling pin and IPSC matches at the gun club and so am loading up on 9mm ammo. I figure if the SHTF it would be nice to be able to fire all that ammo in something more accurate than a handgun. 5.56 is definitely a better defensive round especially at ranges over 50 yards. But with 3 times as much 9mm at home I'd want to get some good use out of it.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:10:15 AM EDT
Without a selector switch there is very little point other than the American consumer's "I-want-it-itis"

GIVEN THE CHOICE, I would never defend my life with any 9mm that lacks 3 positions on a selector switch.

The only practical use I can think of is that it is cheaper practice than 5.56 and gives you a more honest feel than .22lr.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:33:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aerospace_Engineer:

Originally Posted By StewartTR:

Originally Posted By Aerospace_Engineer:

In regards to cqb, the 9mm round has less of a chance going through what's behind your target. 5.56 fmj may go through a couple of walls, brick, doors, ect.


Ahhh, you may want to retract your baseless and misinformed statement...

Ammo Oracle!!!



There was a "Box O Truth" recently that put this to the test and it appears that the all knowing all seeing ammo-oracle has egg on it's face on this one. 55gr FMJ .223's were going through several sheets of drywall and not breaking up, sometimes keyholing and not breaking up.




I'd be interested in seeing the tests and data that show 5.56 fmj's remain more lethal than 9mm after penetrating a "couple of walls, brick, doors, etc."

...and this box of truth was using 55gr fmj's, you say? I really would like to see the evidence.

If I have to take-out the 'bad guy' hiding behind a couple walls, bricks, doors, etc. (and I don't have to worry about hitting innocent people in the area) I'll take a 9mm AR over a 5.56/.223 AR every time.



Incidentally both myself and the Ammo Oracle are talking about interrior walls made of dry wall not brick wall. But here is your proof www.theboxotruth.com.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:41:22 AM EDT
I do not like the 9mm ARs because I have to get new mags. Only Olympic Arms makes a 9mm AR complete rifle that takes Glock 18 mags, which I have plenty of for my Glock 17.

Now, if someone could make a conversion kit that uses Glock 18 mags for any AR, I'd check it out. I don't care if the last round BHO is not implemented, my PRI latch makes it easy to chamber a new cartridge.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:54:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 7:55:35 AM EDT by SNIPERm88]

Originally Posted By metroplex:


Now, if someone could make a conversion kit that uses Glock 18 mags for any AR, I'd check it out. I don't care if the last round BHO is not implemented, my PRI latch makes it easy to chamber a new cartridge.



Glock mag fed
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 7:57:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By StewartTR:
Incidentally both myself and the Ammo Oracle are talking about interrior walls made of dry wall not brick wall. But here is your proof www.theboxotruth.com.



Cool, thanks StewartTR!
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:00:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SNIPERm88:

Originally Posted By metroplex:


Now, if someone could make a conversion kit that uses Glock 18 mags for any AR, I'd check it out. I don't care if the last round BHO is not implemented, my PRI latch makes it easy to chamber a new cartridge.



Glock mag fed



You quoted only part of my post. Read the other half. Oly only makes ENTIRE rifles that take Glock mags. These are not conversion kits. I'm looking for a block that would take Glock mags and work with any std AR15 lower. I haven't seen any. They mostly take modified Uzi mags, sten mags, or the Colt mags.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:29:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pulpsmack:
Without a selector switch there is very little point other than the American consumer's "I-want-it-itis"

GIVEN THE CHOICE, I would never defend my life with any 9mm that lacks 3 positions on a selector switch.

The only practical use I can think of is that it is cheaper practice than 5.56 and gives you a more honest feel than .22lr.



Indoor shooting when the weather sux. Frangible .223 costs way too much IMHO.

Also, regarding penetration, ammooracle, and boxotruth, what are they comparing? Frangible 223 vs. fmj .223 vs. 9mm what?

Randall
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