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Posted: 2/17/2006 12:59:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 2:38:48 PM EDT by metroplex]
Standard RRA LPK, trigger pull is 7-7.25 lb (single stage)
JP Trigger Spring + Disco Spring, RRA Hammer spring, trigger pull is 6-6.25 lb (single stage)

The question was, what would happen if you install the JP trigger and disconnector spring but kept the stock hammer spring for reliability? This was interesting because I wanted a reliable/SHTF setup but with as low of a pull as possible w/o resorting to unreliable lighter hammer springs, 2-stage triggers, or various mods to the hammer/trigger/receiver.

With the JP trigger and disconnector spring, and the stock hammer spring, the trigger pull was only reduced by about 1 lb to yield a 6-6.25 lb pull. This test was conducted prior to and after the spring swap on the same lower (used for about 1000 rd). I didn't pay much money for the kits, and I bought an additional one for my other lower in case it worked out well.

I did run into something odd: The JP trigger spring is sort of offset where one leg is "bent". This causes the spring to shift towards one side (the safety selector side. Will the hammer spring leg rub against the trigger spring enough to the point where something breaks?

Other than that, here are the details, you decide if it is worth it:

1). $9-$10 kit
2). Reduces trigger pull by 1 lb to yield 6-6.25 lb
3). Should not affect reliability: stock hammer spring
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 2:46:04 PM EDT
Bump for night crew.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 2:47:55 PM EDT
Should have used a RRA NM 2 stage. No adjustments to move or come lose. 5 lbs, crisp and safe. Double tap with the best of them.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 4:06:49 PM EDT
There are no adjustments or anything to come lose with what I have.
It only cost me $8 overall. I have heard of people with RRA NM 2-stage triggers that found the trigger became a single stage after awhile. After reading the sheet that JP includes, I find that I could get it down to 4.5 lb - 5 lb by using their hammer spring and doing some crazy mods. No thanks. At least I know that going with the "SHTF" JP spring kit mod results in 1 lb less than stock. Knowing is half the battle
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 4:14:51 PM EDT
Using this free trick,
www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm
I dropped my trigger pull to 3" sharp.

Link Posted: 2/17/2006 4:33:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Big-FED:
Using this free trick,
www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm
I dropped my trigger pull to 3" sharp.
hr


I am going to try this asap does anyone have anything negitive to say about it any drawbacks etc?
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 4:36:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mc556:

Originally Posted By Big-FED:
Using this free trick,
www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm
I dropped my trigger pull to 3" sharp.




I am going to try this asap does anyone have anything negitive to say about it any drawbacks etc?



Possible light primer strikes
It's a crap shoot and I'm not willing to do that unless its a range/bench rifle.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:05:54 PM EDT
The JP trigger/speed hammer combo with an stock hammer spring will give you an absolutely reliable set up at 4 lbs. Forget the naysayers concerns about the set screws, get the parts chemically clean, LocTite them, and forget it ever being a problem.

As for a do it yourself job, here's how I do it...

Trigger Job
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 5:19:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 6:15:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex: I have heard of people with RRA NM 2-stage triggers that found the trigger became a single stage after awhile.

Mmmmmkay. I've spent pletny of time with dozens of HP shooter who've shot their RRA 2 stages without anything ever going south in thousands and thousands of rounds.

Mine worked flawlesly for 5000 rounds, and I replaced it with a Geissele just because the G is the shiznit for match use.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 6:41:07 PM EDT
Key word Heard not saw.
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 7:31:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 7:35:34 PM EDT by Another-Bill]
I have had a JP trigger kit (springs etc) with their speed hammer for so long now that it has now lived in a Colt and now a Bushy. 5 years? Maybe more? I have shot IPSC with it and range playtime so it has shot a lot of rounds, thousands and thousands. It is the same today as it was when I put it in, 2.75 lb crisp on my trigger weight scale.

I now have confidence in it for what ever, ymmv.

Bill
Link Posted: 2/17/2006 8:02:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/17/2006 8:02:43 PM EDT by Wingman26]
I put a JP spring kit in my original AR 3 or 4 years ago, it really made a nice improvement. I am using the full kit, hammer and trigger springs, I have several thousand rounds through that rifle with those springs, I have never had a misfire, light strike or any problems what so ever.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:47:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 3:58:40 AM EDT by metroplex]

Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Key word Heard not saw.



About a year or two ago, there was a thread about this and there were quite a few complaints and people saying not to use them for SHTF rifles. I'm not bothering to go back and search for it, but I'm not switching to a 2-stage simply because I prefer a single stage.

I also distinctly remember that the WOA tuned RRA 2-stage triggers were problem free for most people. I am not sure what they did to adjust them though.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:49:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wingman26:
I put a JP spring kit in my original AR 3 or 4 years ago, it really made a nice improvement. I am using the full kit, hammer and trigger springs, I have several thousand rounds through that rifle with those springs, I have never had a misfire, light strike or any problems what so ever.



I plan to blast cheap Wolf, Barnaul, and anything else that's foreign and cheap and may have hard primers. The brass-cased stuff will be kept for defensive purposes (M193, BH OTM, TAP, etc...)
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 3:56:06 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:34:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:

Originally Posted By mc556:

Originally Posted By Big-FED:
Using this free trick,
www.sargenthome.com/15_Minute_AR_Trigger_Job.htm
I dropped my trigger pull to 3" sharp.




I am going to try this asap does anyone have anything negitive to say about it any drawbacks etc?



Possible light primer strikes
It's a crap shoot and I'm not willing to do that unless its a range/bench rifle.



One of the best things about the 15 minute job is there are NO mods to parts other than the hammer and trigger springs, which are easy to replace. Also, if one reads the article AND tries it out, they will find it is 100% reliable. The hammer retains all of its mass and that is what provides the positive force in the ignition process.

The other mod process reduces hammer mass AND spring force. It also modifies the hammer and that can only be rectified by replacing more expensive parts, possibly involving more fitting work, etc.

The 15 minute job is, as indicated, a cheap, simple, easily corrected starting point in producing a better trigger pull. I suspect that many on this forum have probably used this mod and are well satisfied with the results. YMMV.

The "KISS" principle continues to be the best starting point. In any SHTF situation, a great trigger pull will NOT be one of the items the shooter will ever notice. BTDT.

Besides, I am only endorsing the 15 minute job, not selling it.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 5:53:18 AM EDT
I agree with your assessment Big-Fed! I am one for tinkering, but this statement on the 15 min trigger job makes me wonder how reliable it would work with Wolf (it matters to me because I only shoot Wolf for blasting/plinking/practice/testing):


Hammer Spring force is only reduced by about 25%, and there is still plenty of power to insure good ignition. There is still full sear engagement, so the trigger is not unsafe in any way.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 6:02:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:I also distinctly remember that the WOA tuned RRA 2-stage triggers were problem free for most people. I am not sure what they did to adjust them though.

There are NO adjustments in RRA triggers, and White Oak PRECISION does not add any. They merely stone the sear engagement surfaces to remove all creep and lighten the pull a little.

What WOP does to RRA triggers neither increases nor decreses reliability.

I wish all this bullshit about 2 stage triggers being unreliable BECAUSE they are 2 stage would just cease. Why? BECAUSE IT IS BULLSHIT.
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 6:35:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/18/2006 6:36:12 PM EDT by metroplex]
From personal preference, I do not like 2 stage triggers period. For my AR-15s, I'm going to keep it stock. My Vepr had a 2-stage but I swapped it for a Tapco G2, which is a very light and crisp single stage. I am surprised when the hammer lets off, 100% of the time, rather than jerking the trigger or shaking the rifle in anticipation.
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