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Posted: 2/13/2006 1:10:13 PM EDT
Will a USGI cleaning rod damage my barrel and bore? I've HEARD that the answer is yes, but it just doesn't make sense that the military would issue a cleaning rod which would damage the barrel and bore.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:20:43 PM EDT
Yes, it will do damage because the sections do not join perfectly together, leaving sharp edges to drag on the rifling.

With the number of high quality, one piece, coated steel or carbon fiber rods out there, there's no reason to waste money on a GI cleaning rod. If you want a field expedient kit, get an Otis kit.

The Army is not really interested in getting the longest possible life out of a barrel. First, their accuracy standards are pretty loose. Second, theu can afford to rebarrel rifles whenever they want.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 1:34:25 PM EDT
+10 million for Otis
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:12:12 PM EDT
For cleaning after the range, I'd use a one piece Dewey rod or something similar. I'd only use the GI rod under extreme field conditions. The pull through flexible rods seem to work okay from what I've heard. But they won't enable you to knock out a stuck case/stuck slug from a squib round. Having a broken case extractor wouldn't be a bad idea also.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:42:48 PM EDT
Heres a new thought...bore snake
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:53:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 4:57:19 PM EDT
SWO Daddy


Yes, it will do damage because the sections do not join perfectly together, leaving sharp edges to drag on the rifling.

With the number of high quality, one piece, coated steel or carbon fiber rods out there, there's no reason to waste money on a GI cleaning rod. If you want a field expedient kit, get an Otis kit.

The Army is not really interested in getting the longest possible life out of a barrel. First, their accuracy standards are pretty loose. Second, theu can afford to rebarrel rifles whenever they want.



I would disagree with this statement a little. I have had my Barrel with over 12K rd count over a 12 year period and I use a GI rod. The accuracy is still very good. Accuracy comes from the crown (the last influence the barrel has over the bullet before it leaves the barrel) not from the Lands and goves in the center of the barrel.

As for Uncle sam, it's kinda hard to pack a full length Dewey cleaning rod in your ruck sack....

And accuracy that the Army is looking for and what the boys at Camp perry on their manicured lawns are loking for are really two different animals. And to compare the two is unfair and unrealistic.

And a cable like a Otis will not clean your chamber (very Important) and will certainly not get out a stuck casing.
To be honest, the barrel is the least important part on an Chrome lined AR. You can shoot 1500 rds in a 3 day period and never see a drop in accuracy. and a brush with some solvent and a few patches and your good for another few thousands rds. Most AR shooters clean their barrel way to much and their bolt and chamber way to little......
Barrels are replaced due to high round count more then damage from GI cleaning rods. Most guys don't shoot as much as a Military issue rifles see's in a few years.

If your a High-power shooter or bench-rest shooter and your shooting $300 Lija barrels in competition, then use the dewey. You want every little bit of accuracy your can get.

But for the Majority of AR owners, a GI rod will work just fine. Most of us don't shoot that well that any slight degradation in barrel accuracy caused by a GI rod is going to even be noticed. Especially when most of you all out their shoot XM193 and Wolf and Q1313 or ADCOM or SA 193 etc.....

Uncle Sugar has been killing plenty of bad guys over the past 200 years with Krags and Springfield's and Garands and Colts using GI cleaning kits.....
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:08:27 PM EDT
It seems like a brass or alum. rod would be ok. That's what I use. Just don't get crazy with it.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:13:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 5:15:41 PM EDT by Magoo6541]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:
Yes, it will do damage because the sections do not join perfectly together, leaving sharp edges to drag on the rifling.

With the number of high quality, one piece, coated steel or carbon fiber rods out there, there's no reason to waste money on a GI cleaning rod. If you want a field expedient kit, get an Otis kit.

The Army is not really interested in getting the longest possible life out of a barrel. First, their accuracy standards are pretty loose. Second, theu can afford to rebarrel rifles whenever they want.



I don't agree. When I was in boot camp my rifle was cleaned pretty much every day with an USGI cleaning kit... And I wouldn't consider shooting out to 500m "loose" accuracy standards. I'm not sure what the army does but every Marine goes out to 500m.

If it's a precision rifle... by all means, you need a dewey rod and bore guide... Otherwise the USGI kit will do fine.

my .02
Magoo

Edit: +1 on what Harv24 said
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:23:49 PM EDT
Just Boresnake it then follow up with some Otis and patches.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:31:43 PM EDT
OTIS is AWESOME!!
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:31:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/13/2006 5:33:25 PM EDT by pun]
No I dont wash my car with a dirty rag and from time to time if you wash your snakeit wont be dirty when you use it.Besides with it only used on the bore and chamber it can be used many times over before a dirty snake becomes an issue.Dewey rods are good but you cant carry em in the field..the otis is compact but like every thing else you have to change patches.When its speed and a quick clean you need a bore snake is hard to beat.By the way I use a car wash and have no idea how many times they use towles on cars before they change em..I do know they dont do it for every car and mine still comes shiny and clean.Maybe its more of an issue on un chromed barrels and chambers as fouling wipes off those surfaces pretty easily.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:46:55 PM EDT
I personally wouldn't worry about it. Heck, if you shoot the thing enough it will damage itself.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 5:54:53 PM EDT
skip the carbon fiber rod, I'll show you the scar on my leg and I still have the broken rod
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:50:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
skip the carbon fiber rod, I'll show you the scar on my leg and I still have the broken rod


Use it as a cleaning rod, and they don't break. Mine is still in one piece after hundreds of uses.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 6:56:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Harv24:
SWO Daddy


Yes, it will do damage because the sections do not join perfectly together, leaving sharp edges to drag on the rifling.

With the number of high quality, one piece, coated steel or carbon fiber rods out there, there's no reason to waste money on a GI cleaning rod. If you want a field expedient kit, get an Otis kit.

The Army is not really interested in getting the longest possible life out of a barrel. First, their accuracy standards are pretty loose. Second, theu can afford to rebarrel rifles whenever they want.



I would disagree with this statement a little. I have had my Barrel with over 12K rd count over a 12 year period and I use a GI rod. The accuracy is still very good. Accuracy comes from the crown (the last influence the barrel has over the bullet before it leaves the barrel) not from the Lands and goves in the center of the barrel.

As for Uncle sam, it's kinda hard to pack a full length Dewey cleaning rod in your ruck sack....

And accuracy that the Army is looking for and what the boys at Camp perry on their manicured lawns are loking for are really two different animals. And to compare the two is unfair and unrealistic.

And a cable like a Otis will not clean your chamber (very Important) and will certainly not get out a stuck casing.
To be honest, the barrel is the least important part on an Chrome lined AR. You can shoot 1500 rds in a 3 day period and never see a drop in accuracy. and a brush with some solvent and a few patches and your good for another few thousands rds. Most AR shooters clean their barrel way to much and their bolt and chamber way to little......
Barrels are replaced due to high round count more then damage from GI cleaning rods. Most guys don't shoot as much as a Military issue rifles see's in a few years.

If your a High-power shooter or bench-rest shooter and your shooting $300 Lija barrels in competition, then use the dewey. You want every little bit of accuracy your can get.

But for the Majority of AR owners, a GI rod will work just fine. Most of us don't shoot that well that any slight degradation in barrel accuracy caused by a GI rod is going to even be noticed. Especially when most of you all out their shoot XM193 and Wolf and Q1313 or ADCOM or SA 193 etc.....

Uncle Sugar has been killing plenty of bad guys over the past 200 years with Krags and Springfield's and Garands and Colts using GI cleaning kits.....


I'm not a soldier, and neither are about 99% of the people here, so what Uncle Sam thinks is acceptable is really immaterial.

If you think throats have no effect on accuracy, and that throats damaged by ill-joined steel rods used without a bore guide do not degarade accuracy at a faster rate than one treated properly, well, not only are you wrong but there's no point in continuing this because we are not even talking the same language for all practical purposes.

BTW, I treat my surplus Garand and $500 hunting rifles the same way I treat a $1K AR and $3K custom Model 70.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 7:50:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
skip the carbon fiber rod, I'll show you the scar on my leg and I still have the broken rod


Use it as a cleaning rod, and they don't break. Mine is still in one piece after hundreds of uses.



I broke 2 of the crappy things.

Both broke when I had a tight patch, and trying to pull it back out the handle broke clean off of the rod.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:10:51 PM EDT


From SWODaddy

I'm not a soldier, and neither are about 99% of the people here, so what Uncle Sam thinks is acceptable is really immaterial.

If you think throats have no effect on accuracy, and that throats damaged by ill-joined steel rods used without a bore guide do not degarade accuracy at a faster rate than one treated properly, well, not only are you wrong but there's no point in continuing this because we are not even talking the same language for all practical purposes.

BTW, I treat my surplus Garand and $500 hunting rifles the same way I treat a $1K AR and $3K custom Model 70.



Yea.. I figured that would be the response... I guess 99% of the shooters here are fanatical High-power shooters who would debate the most Tiny Minutia when it comes to AR's and accuracy. The Fact is their are VERY FEW shooters who will ever notice the degradation of their bore and the accuracy when Properly using a GI issue bore brush on a Stock out of the box AR. You and I will have to disagree....
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:11:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By MuRDoC:
skip the carbon fiber rod, I'll show you the scar on my leg and I still have the broken rod


Use it as a cleaning rod, and they don't break. Mine is still in one piece after hundreds of uses.



I broke 2 of the crappy things.

Both broke when I had a tight patch, and trying to pull it back out the handle broke clean off of the rod.




I push the patch through and remove it unscrewing any attachment before pulling the rod back. It takes a little longer but I understand this is the recomended way of doing it. I really don't want to pull anything through the crown. If I am mistaken someone please correct me..
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:21:55 AM EDT
You are suppose to pull the USGI rod through the tube not pushes it, look it up in the 10 manual.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:36:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:
You are suppose to pull the USGI rod through the tube not pushes it, look it up in the 10 manual.



+1. Pushing the rod causes it to flex and bend in the bore. Pulling it does not cause any flexing or bending, just make sure you pull it straight out and not at an angle to the bore.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 6:58:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/14/2006 6:59:17 AM EDT by boltcatch]
I've shot many issue rifles with that had been abused with new privates banging multi section rods down them for a long, long time. They all still shot minute-of-bad-guy. But yes, they are bad for the bore if you use them ineptly. You do need a USGI cleaning rod - in your buttstock, in the buttstock cleaning kit, along with your broken shell extractor. You do have these things, right? Stick 'em in there and forget about them.

They're a must-have for when something gets stuck. For cleaning, though, get the Otis kit, it's great.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:52:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CAR-AR-M16:

Originally Posted By STLRN:
You are suppose to pull the USGI rod through the tube not pushes it, look it up in the 10 manual.



+1. Pushing the rod causes it to flex and bend in the bore. Pulling it does not cause any flexing or bending, just make sure you pull it straight out and not at an angle to the bore.



That makes a lot of sence. Thanks
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 5:54:52 PM EDT
I have an Otis kit, but it's good for nothing as far as cleaning the rest of the rifle is concerned.
Link Posted: 2/14/2006 7:40:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:
You are suppose to pull the USGI rod through the tube not pushes it, look it up in the 10 manual.


There are three ways of doing things: the right way, the wrong way, and the military way.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:34:48 AM EDT
Can the joints in the USGI rod damage the bore? Yes.
Can it damage a non-lined bore enough for a match shooter to notice? Possibly.
Can it damage a lined bore enough for the average shooter to notice? Probably not.

I have a USGI kit in the stock of each AR, but have never used one to actually clean it. For one, it's too much work to re-pack it into the stock. I used to use a one-piece rod, but if the patch was the slightest bit tight it would flex and rub on the side of the bore. So I switched to the Otis, which I really like. I also have a cheap rod I picked up at the gun show that looks like a long eye-bolt that I use for the chamber brush and occasionally with the slotted tip for getting to tight places.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:41:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 7:43:55 AM EDT by markm]

Originally Posted By CAR-AR-M16:

Originally Posted By STLRN:
You are suppose to pull the USGI rod through the tube not pushes it, look it up in the 10 manual.



+1. Pushing the rod causes it to flex and bend in the bore. Pulling it does not cause any flexing or bending, just make sure you pull it straight out and not at an angle to the bore.



SWEET JESUS! There are people with functioning BRAIN CELLS ON THIS SITE!!

I even pull my dewey rod thru my AR's barrel.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:53:44 AM EDT
That works with a slotted tip, but most of the jags I see are the spear-tip type you have to push.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:43:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By markm:
SWEET JESUS! There are people with functioning BRAIN CELLS ON THIS SITE!!

I even pull my dewey rod thru my AR's barrel.



Unfortunately at recruit training, OCS and TBS I was taught to push it through, I notice the army doing the same thing at FAOBC when I was an instructor there a while back. So although it seems to be common sense, common sense is often not a common virtue.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:17:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STLRN:
Unfortunately at recruit training, OCS and TBS I was taught to push it through, I notice the army doing the same thing at FAOBC when I was an instructor there a while back. So although it seems to be common sense, common sense is often not a common virtue.



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