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Posted: 2/11/2006 7:42:26 PM EDT
I see that Smith & Wesson is (or maybe has been and I just now found out about it) producing an AR style rife. Any reports of its construction/durability/reliability? Also, does it have the standard AR flash hider threads? If there is already a thread on this gun just point me in the right direction. Thanks for the help.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 7:46:22 PM EDT
One word is for sure Pricey



- Ice
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 7:48:39 PM EDT
It just uses parts that are already around. No reason to buy it unless you want S&W on the side.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 8:00:28 PM EDT
Its in the newest issue of Gun and Ammo magazine, I saw it tonight at Walmart.
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 8:06:21 PM EDT
CMT rifle with Troy Ind doo-dads and S&W marking...
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 8:26:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/11/2006 8:28:09 PM EDT by CK]
Originally Posted By Gunzilla:
and S&W markings.. Everywhere

I saw some close-up pictures and looks like the extra $$ is to pay for S&W logo's plastered all over the rifle - Great if want to do advertising, and the best deal is you laid out hard earned $$ to advertise for S&W and don't ever get a advertising commission - What a deal for S&W!
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 8:29:22 PM EDT
SSDD
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 8:32:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
SSDD



Amen!
Link Posted: 2/11/2006 9:28:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 3:49:06 AM EDT
I think this goes to show how low S&W will stoop. For years S&W and Colt were the 2 top gunmakers in the US. Now S&W is not only making a copy of Colt's 1911 .45 pistol, but now their AR-15 as well. I'd like to see Colt make S&W's 686 revolver! S&W is cheap, lazy, and has going down the tubes as far as I'm concern. I won't buy another S&W product.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:38:05 AM EDT
One more AR15 with another brand name.
I still have the bad taste of S&W position a few years ago.......
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:53:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WSAR15:
One more AR15 with another brand name.
I still have the bad taste of S&W position a few years ago.......


Shouldn't blame the present owners for the past politics of S&W. I think they were owned by a British holding company. Would you expect any less from the British socialistic agenda? Do note the positive changes now that it's back in American hands.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:53:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HotIce:
One word is for sure Pricey



- Ice


Do you pay sticker price when you buy a car?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:54:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WSAR15:
One more AR15 with another brand name.
I still have the bad taste of S&W position a few years ago.......


It's people like you, who refuse to acknowledge change, that force American gun companies to go under.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:01:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 6:35:40 AM EDT by WSAR15]
Strange to be aggressed "It's people like you....." for expressing a feeling, not a fact, in a group where I think we share so much, and where little is know about me, to say the least. Nothing wrong with positive and corrective feedback though.
To the contrary, I feel we must remind politicians and others that we do not want change in the wrong direction. As often as possible.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 6:45:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By zwvirtual:
I think this goes to show how low S&W will stoop. For years S&W and Colt were the 2 top gunmakers in the US. Now S&W is not only making a copy of Colt's 1911 .45 pistol, but now their AR-15 as well. I'd like to see Colt make S&W's 686 revolver! S&W is cheap, lazy, and has going down the tubes as far as I'm concern. I won't buy another S&W product.

While Colt owned the patents to both, they did not invent either one. Mr. Browning invented the 1911, and Colt wound up with the patents and manufacturing rights because some other manufacturers had jerked Mr. Browning around. Stoner and his team invented the AR, and you'll recall that Colt wound up with it because Armalite was running into financial problems just as the rifle started to get noticed by the right people.

S&W has a long and well regarded history of building really good guns. This history is, of course, marred by the fact that the company has been owned a few times by larger companies that didn't really like guns (is it just me or does it sound stupid to buy a company that makes products you don't like?). Now that S&W is again "gun friendly," and with the end of the AWB, it makes a lot of sense for them to get into the high-end AR act. Their prices don't look particularly worse than Armalite's, and this version of Armalite isn't even the orignial company.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:00:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MrMojoRising:
SSDD



I havent seen that used in a while.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:01:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ANATION:
I see that Smith & Wesson is (or maybe has been and I just now found out about it) producing an AR style rife. Any reports of its construction/durability/reliability? Also, does it have the standard AR flash hider threads? If there is already a thread on this gun just point me in the right direction. Thanks for the help.



From what I've heard (2 VERY reliable sources) that's S&W ARs made by Stag. I saw them at SHOT yesterday and will again today. They're nice but overpriced.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:28:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:35:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By HotIce:
One word is for sure Pricey


Do you pay sticker price when you buy a car?


I've never seen real in-store prices for that, so my comment was about its MSRP. That ranges from $1200 to $1700, and it's $200 to $400 higher than the MSRP of other well known names.


- Ice
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 7:49:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 7:51:14 AM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By HotIce:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By HotIce:
One word is for sure Pricey


Do you pay sticker price when you buy a car?


I've never seen real in-store prices for that, so my comment was about its MSRP. That ranges from $1200 to $1700, and it's $200 to $400 higher than the MSRP of other well known names.


- Ice



RRA MSRP: $975


DS Arms MSRP: $1029.95


Bushmaster MSRP: $1265


S&W MSRP: $1200

When you normalize prices to include a detachable carry handle on all three, the prices are within $100 of each other.

Hardly overpriced.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:12:40 AM EDT
Forgot to include DPMS and Olympic Arms (to name a few other names you hear around)



- Ice
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 8:17:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HotIce:
Forgot to include DPMS and Olympic Arms (to name a few other names you hear around)



- Ice



DPMS MSRP: $899

Not all that much cheaper. And if the S&W rifle is made with premium components, as some have claimed here, the extra coin is well worth it to some.

Olympic? I didn't include it because I wouldn't buy one.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 10:50:23 AM EDT
It just doesn't seem right!!!
I've always owned Colt's.... Seeing S&W on an AR looks like a photochop
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 11:35:29 AM EDT
I'm not sure why anyone would be against an American owned company introducing a new quality firearm to there line up. the more "mainstream" these fine arms get the more acceptance theywill have with the general citizenry and in turn the less likely it will be that new restrictive legislation will be introduced or passed.

I acknowlegde that I was as upset as anyone when the former ownership was up to their shinanigans, but the new owners have stepped up and are attempting to restore a fine old American Company to it's former luster. We owe it to our future generations to not turn on our own and recognize a good thing when someone does something right.

Check out the G&A article the gun looks great and accuracy seems to be fine, the price is right in line with a top quality AR and I for one welcome the additional choice.

ATABOY S&W...I'de buy one
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 11:39:45 AM EDT
Wondering why everybody is so interested in this S&W rifle.

They're not rifle specialists.

Their pistols/autoloaders are substandard, IMO.

Their revolvers are adequate.

What makes anybody think they will make it any better than anybody else out there?

Just random thoughts roaming around in my thick skull.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 11:43:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 11:44:45 AM EDT by Variablebinary]

Originally Posted By ANATION:
I see that Smith & Wesson is (or maybe has been and I just now found out about it) producing an AR style rife. Any reports of its construction/durability/reliability? Also, does it have the standard AR flash hider threads? If there is already a thread on this gun just point me in the right direction. Thanks for the help.



*yawn*

Anyone have a good RRA dealer

If you're dropping a grand for a stock M4 it better be a Colt because at that price range you have no reason not to. The goal is to get more for less, not less for more
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:44:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Wondering why everybody is so interested in this S&W rifle.

Their pistols/autoloaders are substandard, IMO.



Not 100% true. I just picked up a S&W 1911PD and it runs really well! Sadly, the only S&W auto loader I will ever own is their 1911 model.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 12:45:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunz4me:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Wondering why everybody is so interested in this S&W rifle.

Their pistols/autoloaders are substandard, IMO.



Not 100% true. I just picked up a S&W 1911PD and it runs really well! Sadly, the only S&W auto loader I will ever own is their 1911 model.



OK, so a pistol that they had nothing to do with the design and development of ranks up there. I'll give you that one.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:16:08 PM EDT
Their 3rd gen Auto's are excellent, too. Just as relaible as a Glock, SIG, or HK, but American made.

It'll be in the same price range as all the other "big names", so it should do pretty good. And the fact it has the S&W Lifetime Warranty is a big plus to those that want to a buy a complete rifle.

Personally, I just want a stripped upper and lower from them ;)
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:23:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Wondering why everybody is so interested in this S&W rifle.

They're not rifle specialists.

Their pistols/autoloaders are substandard, IMO.

Their revolvers are adequate.

What makes anybody think they will make it any better than anybody else out there?

Just random thoughts roaming around in my thick skull.



I think they are definitely targetting the LEO market. With their new M&P sidearm (which isn't too shabby from what I've read so far; time will tell), they are posturing themselves to be sole source suppliers to various departments for both sidearms and patrol carbines. I've got to believe they are offering dept's some breaks if they order both.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:28:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 1:29:36 PM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By mongo001:
They're not rifle specialists.


Neither was Kimber, yet they turned the premium hunting rifle market on its ear their first time out at bat.

Originally Posted By mongo001: Their revolvers are adequate. Their pistols/autoloaders are substandard, IMO.

A lot of people disagree with that opinion, having had first hand experience with both.

Originally Posted By mongo001:What makes anybody think they will make it any better than anybody else out there?

It's not a matter of being better. It's a matter of it being as good as the best, and it gives S&W fans another reason to support a historic American gunmaker.

Here's a newsflash: not everyone is interested in building their rifle from a pile of parts. Some people want something already made, with a warranty and excellent support. Things they will get from Smith & Wesson, but not from Mongo's machine shop and AR garage.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 1:35:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 1:40:10 PM EDT by mongo001]
Go right ahead. I'd bet there's going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong learning curve on their part. Good luck to all who buy a name. Hope their warranty and customer service are good.





I mean, come on, the LEO market is already saturated with quality choices. Colt, RRA and Bushmaster. What can S&W offer? Who makes their parts? Who assembles the rifles? Do they do anything other than assembly? If only an assembler and a name on the receiver.................why?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 2:56:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 3:23:26 PM EDT by SWO_daddy]

Originally Posted By mongo001:
Go right ahead. I'd bet there's going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong learning curve on their part.

I mean, come on, the LEO market is already saturated with quality choices. Colt, RRA and Bushmaster. What can S&W offer? Who makes their parts? Who assembles the rifles? Do they do anything other than assembly? If only an assembler and a name on the receiver.................why?


I'm sure S&W executives would to love to get a phone call from you telling them how to run their business.

As to who makes their parts, who cares? Some S&W will make, some they will buy. Just like everything made today. Do you think GM makes everything in their cars? When I worked at GM's Moraine Assembly Plant, everything that went into the Chevy Trailblazer and its clones was made by GM outside suppliers except the body sheetmetal, the engine, and the transmission.

And making an AR isn't all that difficult. I'm pretty sure S&W engineers and toolmakers have torn down dozens of competing rifles to figure out how to put one together. Shit, just go online and download the depot level maintenance manual for the M16. There's your assembly procedures free. All that they need to do now is design the fixtures and programs needed to machine what they want to make in house.

Somehow I think Smith & Wesson is more than capable of doing so.

ETA: You asked what can S&W offer that Bushmaster Colt, and everyone else don't offer to the LE market. How about being able to offer a single stop shop for an about 95% of an entire PD's firearm needs, including rifles, pistols, and training?

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 3:49:30 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 3:54:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
I mean, come on, the LEO market is already saturated with quality choices. Colt, RRA and Bushmaster. What can S&W offer?




S&W can offer deals to the LE market that any other company would be very hard pressed to match.

S&W offers a name that many beat cops grew up on. Those same beat cops aren't carrying a model 15 anymore, but that generation is now Chiefs, and S&W is a familiar name.

The parts that S&W are using are solid, and I have no doubt that their weapons will hold up to the grind and abuse that they will see as a duty weapon. It wouldn't shock me at all to see S&W long guns ending up in some larger departments before long.



A very smart "name recognition" move as well as getting the S&W name to a whole new crop of cops... you can not buy that sort of advertising. We all know the guns are CMT/Troy for the most part and based on the contract comitment numbers, S&W seems confident that they will sell pretty well -- not about to overtake any of the top level names, but hope to get the exposure on the street.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:01:36 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:20:55 PM EDT
I just hope this marketing play doesn't cost somebody their life with an unproven and potentially inferior product - while they grow through the inevitable learning curve. ARs aren't hard to do, as I've said a million time, but the bottom line is the guy on the street. Hope they got their sh!t in one sock, for the sake of the guy that could be depending on this.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:32:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:
It just uses parts that are already around. No reason to buy it unless you want S&W on the side.



+1
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:38:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:
It just uses parts that are already around. No reason to buy it unless you want S&W on the side.



+1



Then why buy any gun since its just made of parts that are already around. Unless you are buying it for the name.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:39:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By zwvirtual:
I think this goes to show how low S&W will stoop. For years S&W and Colt were the 2 top gunmakers in the US. Now S&W is not only making a copy of Browning's Colt's 1911 .45 pistol, but now their AR-15 as well. I'd like to see Colt make S&W's 686 revolver! S&W is cheap, lazy, and has going down the tubes as far as I'm concern. I won't buy another S&W product.

Link Posted: 2/12/2006 4:43:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:
It just uses parts that are already around. No reason to buy it unless you want S&W on the side.



+1



Then why buy any gun since its just made of parts that are already around. Unless you are buying it for the name.



+1
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:13:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:39:47 PM EDT
I dont care who it is Im glad another company is making ARs.
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:44:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:
I just hope this marketing play doesn't cost somebody their life with an unproven and potentially inferior product - while they grow through the inevitable learning curve. ARs aren't hard to do, as I've said a million time, but the bottom line is the guy on the street. Hope they got their sh!t in one sock, for the sake of the guy that could be depending on this.


You are an amateur. S&W is a professional gunmaker and has been so since 1852. Your skepticism of their abilities is slightly amusing. Makes you look like a
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:46:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By Gunbert:

Originally Posted By Bushwacker85:
It just uses parts that are already around. No reason to buy it unless you want S&W on the side.



+1



Then why buy any gun since its just made of parts that are already around. Unless you are buying it for the name.


Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:54:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
A department looks at liability, and a large company with a proven track record in LE & firearms has credibility in the eyes of many. I still don't see the concern. A department will T&E the weapons, then make a purchase, and then the weapons will each have several hundred rounds (minimum) fired through them before they ever reach the street.

I can see how people are looking at these as unproven, but you've got to remember that S&W is a firearm company using known components to build a product which is already available.



sadly, this has a lot to do with it... not many people on here have to think about a lot of this when they buy a new gun: Things like is it legal under purchase policy and regs (FAR, etc), has the platoon of lawyers bought off on it? Has some news magazine pissed all over it a year ago in some town you never heard of? how long will it take to get them? Repair, warranty? Can the RO get everyone up to speed on it? Blah? Blah? Blah?
Link Posted: 2/12/2006 5:57:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/12/2006 6:03:55 PM EDT by mongo001]

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
I just hope this marketing play doesn't cost somebody their life with an unproven and potentially inferior product - while they grow through the inevitable learning curve. ARs aren't hard to do, as I've said a million time, but the bottom line is the guy on the street. Hope they got their sh!t in one sock, for the sake of the guy that could be depending on this.


You are an amateur. S&W is a professional gunmaker and has been so since 1852. Your skepticism of their abilities is slightly amusing. Makes you look like a



Yep, I sure am. But I do know a thing or two about LEO and the like. I've been there/done that, so to speak. I've seen and shot S&W firearms and was neither inmpressed or unimpressed, although the Sigma was a winner, wasn't it. My feeling is not to buy a marketing ploy when my life is on the line. There are already proven lines out there to draw from. No need to buy into a marketing ploy. If not jumping on a rifle from a predominantly pistol company makes me a clown, so be it.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:09:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By HotIce:
Forgot to include DPMS and Olympic Arms (to name a few other names you hear around)


www.dpmsinc.com/images/RFA2-M4_new_2.jpg
DPMS MSRP: $899

Not all that much cheaper. And if the S&W rifle is made with premium components, as some have claimed here, the extra coin is well worth it to some.
Olympic? I didn't include it because I wouldn't buy one.


That is indeed pricey and puts itself in the area where Colt and BushMaster live
For $200-300 less you can buy RRA, DSA, DPMS and Olympic (and any combination of of these and other manufacturers parts).
If you understood Pricey as in the following Pricey, then no, it's not that Pricey





- Ice
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:13:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mongo001:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By mongo001:
I just hope this marketing play doesn't cost somebody their life with an unproven and potentially inferior product - while they grow through the inevitable learning curve. ARs aren't hard to do, as I've said a million time, but the bottom line is the guy on the street. Hope they got their sh!t in one sock, for the sake of the guy that could be depending on this.


You are an amateur. S&W is a professional gunmaker and has been so since 1852. Your skepticism of their abilities is slightly amusing. Makes you look like a



....I've seen and shot S&W firearms and was neither inmpressed or unimpressed, although the Sigma was a winner, wasn't it....



That's why instead of trying to design it themselves they are going with proven components from already proven mfg's.
Link Posted: 2/13/2006 8:35:20 AM EDT
I'd Own it. All the guns that my wife claims are Smiths. She has a .38 airweight and a 22a for practice. She also claims MY Victory Model.

Hmm might be under the tree at christmas for her.

Do you think she would figure out that I just wanted another AR?

FN could have saved Winchester with one of these. They know how to build a decent M16.
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