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Posted: 2/8/2006 5:00:03 AM EDT
OK, so I read people bad mouth DPMS all the time. I own several DPMS products, both fully assembled rifles and parts, and have never had a problem.
But by reading, you get the impression that they are complete junk. I have seen all manufacturers have parts break and come from the factory with problems...even Rock River, Colt, and Armalite products.
My question is what exactly is/are the problem(s) with DPMS products that no other manufacturer ever experiences?
Just asking and looking for some honest input...
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 5:07:55 AM EDT
Tagged for resposnes. I'm interested to know myself. All I can seem to recall is that they use cheaper (read: not as strong) aluminum. Instead of Uber 7075 they use 6061. Also the grade of steel they use is probably 4140 as opposed to the stronger (and more expensive) 4150 steel. We won't even get into the Chrome-Moly-Vanadium debate.

If you spotted a DPMS for $600 bucks I'd say go for it!


2005 SEBR = $760
7075T6, 4150 CMV, shitty phosphate coating.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:01:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:12:28 AM EDT
nothing wrong w/ DPMS stuff at all....i get parts from em almost everytime i need em

h/w, i wish that thier LPK parts were a little darker....but its all cosmetic
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:20:06 AM EDT
DPMS produces a fine rifle, and has been my trusted "beater".

That said, the only problem I've had was when I desired to modify the M-4 stock--it required a conversion as the buffer tube was not mil-spec. Other than that, it's a solid rifle, and you will enjoy it.

Ed
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:40:28 AM EDT
I use DPMS lowers for every rifle I build. (3 and counting)


Naver had any problem, and they were cheap, too.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:40:28 AM EDT
Their gas keys are staked wrong or not at all.

Maybe DPMS Industry Partner can clear this up for us.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:11:09 AM EDT
really bad machining on the bolts and even worse finish on them

only thing i have ran into with dpms and more than once but i love their lowers
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:30:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:33:54 AM EDT
I considered a DPMS upper for the AR I am putting together for SHEISLEGEND but AFAIK they don't offer a chrome-lined superlight. That ruled it out for me in this instance but it wasn't a quality problem per se.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:36:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 7:50:36 AM EDT by AJ-IN-JAX]
What are the REAL problems with DPMS?...

The wait.

I can't tell you about the quality of the rifle since mine has yet to arrive.

My FFL dealer placed an order on Dec. 14th and was told it be a 5 week wait.

Today makes 8 weeks.

My dealer was told they, DPMS, were just waiting on a shipment of chromed barrels to come in to complete the build, that was 2 weeks ago.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:15:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
I considered a DPMS upper for the AR I am putting together for SHEISLEGEND but AFAIK they don't offer a chrome-lined superlight. That ruled it out for me in this instance but it wasn't a quality problem per se.



I just sold seven of those, so I know they offer them.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:26:01 AM EDT
DPMS is a big-time parts supplier. Someone builds a home job, it doesn't work right because it was assembled incorrectly, and the parts manufacturer is blamed. Comes with the territory.

My impression of factory assembled DPMS rifles is overall good quality. I believe they had some quality issues in many years past when they first got in the business. Reputations are not easy to fix.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:27:39 AM EDT
I payed $760 for my DPMS and I don't regret it... fine rifle.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:27:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
I considered a DPMS upper for the AR I am putting together for SHEISLEGEND but AFAIK they don't offer a chrome-lined superlight. That ruled it out for me in this instance but it wasn't a quality problem per se.



I just sold seven of those, so I know they offer them.



Is that right? Chrome lined superlight? My buddy sells DPMS stuff and he was under the impression they didn't offer the superlight in chrome lined currently.

If they do I might use DPMS for the upper I will need to replace my HBAR once I try SHEISLEGENDs superlight and drool over it's low weight.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:29:37 AM EDT
Could you guys please offer a chrome lined .308?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:33:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
What are the REAL problems with DPMS?...

The wait.

I can't tell you about the quality of the rifle since mine has yet to arrive.

My FFL dealer placed an order on Dec. 14th and was told it be a 5 week wait.

Today makes 8 weeks.

My dealer was told they, DPMS, were just waiting on a shipment of chromed barrels to come in to complete the build, that was 2 weeks ago.



You will wait on any complete rifle bought straight from the manufacturer right now. Its not just DPMS.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:39:15 AM EDT
DPMS. Do you have a non-java-flash way into your website? I am running FireFox and it will not open your opening page of your website.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:45:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 9:10:45 AM EDT by eklikwhoa]

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
I considered a DPMS upper for the AR I am putting together for SHEISLEGEND but AFAIK they don't offer a chrome-lined superlight. That ruled it out for me in this instance but it wasn't a quality problem per se.



I just sold seven of those, so I know they offer them.



Is that right? Chrome lined superlight? My buddy sells DPMS stuff and he was under the impression they didn't offer the superlight in chrome lined currently.

If they do I might use DPMS for the upper I will need to replace my HBAR once I try SHEISLEGENDs superlight and drool over it's low weight.





the dpms bbl is not a real superlight bbl. it is just a turned down .750, real superlights have the .625 fsb like bushmaster and colt.

also dpms' website only offers chrome moly, no chrome lined. along with other sites that carry dpms.

cmmg offers light profiled bbls. like the dpms with chrome lining and the 1x7 twist rate if that is what you desire.


hey terrydavis could you post a pic of the chromelined dpms at the chamber or muzzle?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:53:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By steve-oh:
Could you guys please offer a chrome lined .308?



They are working on it. They will offer it shortly.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:54:07 AM EDT
I have two DPMS lowers that were purchased stripped (preban:to show date of build) that I completed prior to the ban. They are s/n 68xx & 82xx, the old style markings with just DPMS, no "logo".

Anyhow, the parts assembled great into the lower, most of which were either DPMS or Bushy parts. Everything was assembled, barrel and all. I have since bought a newer DPMS complete lower since the sunset and its great too.

I do prefer Bushy, Colt and getting into RRA, but I would definately purchase DPMS without hesitation.

Enjoy,
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:01:23 AM EDT
I have just completed 2 projects using 2 DPMS forged lowers. Excellent fit and finish on both.

CMT Uppers
Colt Carry Handles
Wilson 20" chrome lined and Sabre 14.5" m4
Colt handguards and A2 stock on the Rifle. Colt M4s on the M4
Colt Bolts and Carriers
RRA LPKs and 2 stage triggers

My point: Everything fits perfectly and test fires w/o failure. The DPMS forged stuff is on the money. Will use them again in the future.

SC
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:02:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:04:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
I considered a DPMS upper for the AR I am putting together for SHEISLEGEND but AFAIK they don't offer a chrome-lined superlight. That ruled it out for me in this instance but it wasn't a quality problem per se.



I just sold seven of those, so I know they offer them.



Is that right? Chrome lined superlight? My buddy sells DPMS stuff and he was under the impression they didn't offer the superlight in chrome lined currently.

If they do I might use DPMS for the upper I will need to replace my HBAR once I try SHEISLEGENDs superlight and drool over it's low weight.





the dpms bbl is not a real superlight bbl. it is just a turned down .750, rear superlights have the .625 fsb like bushmaster and colt.

also dpms' website only offers chrome moly, no chrome lined. along with other sites that carry dpms.

cmmg offers light profiled bbls. like the dpms with chrome lining and the 1x7 twist rate if that is what you desire.


hey terrydavis could you post a pic of the chromelined dpms chamber?



Thanks for the 411.

I want the real superlight (it's for SHEISLEGEND and she will appreciate all the weight I can shave off) and I want real chrome lining so in this particular case I think I did the right thing going with Bushmaster.

I'll consider cmmg if I do a lightweight upper for myself.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:09:22 AM EDT
gds_enterprise carries bushmaster bbls. and ships fast.

great people to deal with.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:11:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 9:31:23 AM EDT by HardShell]

Originally Posted By Frntsyt:
... I own several DPMS products, both fully assembled rifles and parts, and have never had a problem...



My experience, exactly (2 DPMS "factory" rifles & 2 builds using their parts exclusively, plus numerous other parts in asssorted rifles). But some folks on this board hate DPMS with the white-hot hatred usually reserved for Olympic Arms (whom I have also had good products from, FWIW).

My advice, FWIW: Ignore the one-line epithets with nothing of value to add to the conversation and listen to the experiences (good and bad - there are both from ANY manufacturer) of folks who have bought, sold, owned, and used these products.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:17:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 9:21:36 AM EDT by terrydavis]

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
I considered a DPMS upper for the AR I am putting together for SHEISLEGEND but AFAIK they don't offer a chrome-lined superlight. That ruled it out for me in this instance but it wasn't a quality problem per se.



I just sold seven of those, so I know they offer them.



Is that right? Chrome lined superlight? My buddy sells DPMS stuff and he was under the impression they didn't offer the superlight in chrome lined currently.

If they do I might use DPMS for the upper I will need to replace my HBAR once I try SHEISLEGENDs superlight and drool over it's low weight.



Well, let's get a definition of a superlight. DPMS make the Light-16 barrel. It is .640" in front of the front sight and under the hand guard, DPMS heavy barrel is .720" in front of the front sight. Colt's barrel is .575 in front of the front sight. I don't have a Bushmaster handy to measure. Their website should give the barrel dimension.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:27:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 9:30:38 AM EDT by terrydavis]

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:

Originally Posted By IAMLEGEND:
I considered a DPMS upper for the AR I am putting together for SHEISLEGEND but AFAIK they don't offer a chrome-lined superlight. That ruled it out for me in this instance but it wasn't a quality problem per se.



I just sold seven of those, so I know they offer them.



Is that right? Chrome lined superlight? My buddy sells DPMS stuff and he was under the impression they didn't offer the superlight in chrome lined currently.

If they do I might use DPMS for the upper I will need to replace my HBAR once I try SHEISLEGENDs superlight and drool over it's low weight.





the dpms bbl is not a real superlight bbl. it is just a turned down .750, real superlights have the .625 fsb like bushmaster and colt.

also dpms' website only offers chrome moly, no chrome lined. along with other sites that carry dpms.

cmmg offers light profiled bbls. like the dpms with chrome lining and the 1x7 twist rate if that is what you desire.


hey terrydavis could you post a pic of the chromelined dpms at the chamber or muzzle?



The DPMS L-16 barrel is .640" in front of the FSB and below the hand guard.

Despite what their website say, you can order chrome lined barrels for the Light-16, 20" A2/A3 and M4s. I even have some chrome lined 1:7 twist coming.

I can't at the moment, I had a very good show in San Antonio this past weekend and I do not have any chrome lined barrels left. More are on the way. They look like any Bushmaster or Colt.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:27:30 AM EDT
I'm the proud owner of a 20" Bull barreled Southpaw. Never had a problem with it. Excellent fit and finish compared to some of the stuff I've seen on other makers rifles.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:36:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
What are the REAL problems with DPMS?...

The wait.

I can't tell you about the quality of the rifle since mine has yet to arrive.

My FFL dealer placed an order on Dec. 14th and was told it be a 5 week wait.

Today makes 8 weeks.

My dealer was told they, DPMS, were just waiting on a shipment of chromed barrels to come in to complete the build, that was 2 weeks ago.



You will wait on any complete rifle bought straight from the manufacturer right now. Its not just DPMS.



Well, it would have been nice to have been told that when I placed the order.

If it's taking 2-3 months to get the rifles out, tell me it's gonna take 2-3 months.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:37:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 9:38:29 AM EDT by mikeinkc]
(a) some parts in their Lpk`s are out of spec. (b) bolts have been known to break.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:40:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:

Originally Posted By Dace:

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
What are the REAL problems with DPMS?...

The wait.

I can't tell you about the quality of the rifle since mine has yet to arrive.

My FFL dealer placed an order on Dec. 14th and was told it be a 5 week wait.

Today makes 8 weeks.

My dealer was told they, DPMS, were just waiting on a shipment of chromed barrels to come in to complete the build, that was 2 weeks ago.



You will wait on any complete rifle bought straight from the manufacturer right now. Its not just DPMS.



Well, it would have been nice to have been told that when I placed the order.

If it's taking 2-3 months to get the rifles out, tell me it's gonna take 2-3 months.



Things change on a daily basis. Sub contracted parts that are sceduled to be delivered one day are inspected and found to be out of spec and have to be remade. This can add weeks to the delivery time. What model rifle did you order?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 9:49:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DPMS:
Every DPMS gas key that is sent with a bolt carrier is staked the correct way. If the parts are purchased separatey and not assembled by DPMS it is up to the builder to stake the gas key.
When people build a rifle with a lower from brand"X" then most people think that it is a complete rifle from brand "X". We have people all time call us to ask questions about the DPMS rifle that they bought. We then check the S/N to find out that it was sold as a striped lower. When you find a un-staked key it is likley that someone bought the parts to put the carrier together and did not follow the correct procedures.



Thanks for the reply. It is sure nice to have the manufacturer active on the Board.

Can you post a picture of your finished bolt carrier to show how DPMS stakes their keys????
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:02:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
What model rifle did you order?



An AP4 Panther Carbine w/ a chrome lined barrel.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:25:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
What model rifle did you order?



An AP4 Panther Carbine w/ a chrome lined barrel.




I was hoping I could help you, that is my most popular model and I sell out all the time.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:33:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DPMS:
Every DPMS gas key that is sent with a bolt carrier is staked the correct way. If the parts are purchased separatey and not assembled by DPMS it is up to the builder to stake the gas key.
When people build a rifle with a lower from brand"X" then most people think that it is a complete rifle from brand "X". We have people all time call us to ask questions about the DPMS rifle that they bought. We then check the S/N to find out that it was sold as a striped lower. When you find a un-staked key it is likley that someone bought the parts to put the carrier together and did not follow the correct procedures.




Something similar happened to me. I bought my first AR (DPMS) on consignment at a local gun shop. The price was right, but I really hadn't done enough homework to know what I was getting. It was a LEO marked gun with 14.5" M4 barrel (with permanently welded FH) and 6-pos stock. I called DPMS to see if perhaps the barrel was chrome lined. They were most helpful and informed me that the gun actually shipped completed in 2003 with a superlight (?) barrel in neutered post-ban config with a fixed stock. Anyway, I bought a gun which I thought was just as it left the factory only to find out that it had been significantly modified. To this day I don't know what brand of upper is on that rifle. FWIW the price was good (below 700), and the gun has never given me so much as a hiccup.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:37:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 10:41:06 AM EDT
Barrel upgrade option

It´s there but not easy to find.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:32:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
What model rifle did you order?


An AP4 Panther Carbine w/ a chrome lined barrel.


My Panther had been ordered the 1st week of Nov 2005 and I received it in mid Jan 2006. Worth the wait though.
I've been told they had problems with a batch the lower receivers, and hence there was some extra delay.
Now, after having changed the trigger, I'm enjoying a super-accurate 308 rig


- Ice
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:38:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 2:35:25 PM EDT by terrydavis]

Originally Posted By HotIce:

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:

Originally Posted By terrydavis:
What model rifle did you order?


An AP4 Panther Carbine w/ a chrome lined barrel.


My Panther had been ordered the 1st week of Nov 2005 and I received it in mid Jan 2006. Worth the wait though.
I've been told they had problems with a batch the lower receivers, and hence there was some extra delay.
Now, after having changed the trigger, I'm enjoying a super-accurate 308 rig


- Ice



I order them in quantities. I have to balance what will be bought with how much I can afford. I never know when or how many I will sell. Usually I walk a fine line between the two extremes. So I will have periods of times when I am out or have 20 sitting there.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:29:03 PM EDT
I bought a new DPMS 16 in heavy barrel carbine prior to Christmas for $680. I am in the process of breaking it in using WWB from China-mart. I have had ZERO problems to date. I decided on DPMS because I wanted a good rifle at a great price.

I am new to the AR system hence the screen name but am learning a great deal thanks to all the wonderful people on this site.

A big thank you to all who have offered assistance.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:30:46 PM EDT
Since most DPMS models cost less than other manufacturers, they are sometimes considered inferior. I have not had one bit of trouble with mine.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:44:04 PM EDT
It is just my two cents but it appears that their are Ford lovers and Chevy haters (and vise versa)everywhere. With such discussions, passion for one's particular brand is often more easily expressed as criticism of all other brands rather than logical, rational, empirical data undeniably substantiating why Brand X is the absolute superior product. I have seen EVERY major manufacturer's AR-15 rifles fail, break, perform poorly, perform unreliably, and cause grave consternation among their owner/operators. Profanity is often used in describing the manufacturer and/or their product.

Bottom line: the AR-15 system is fickle and finicky. I am fortunate to own three DPMS, & two Olympic Arms; both companies who I have seen lambasted on this excellent web-site. I cannot concur with those who insist that these companies produce inferior products. My rifles have performed exceptionally and I would by DPMS everyday of the week and twice on Sunday if my finance manager would allow.

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:56:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metalsaber:
Since most DPMS models cost less than other manufacturers, they are sometimes considered inferior. I have not had one bit of trouble with mine.



So you are saying I should raise my prices, say to a level on par with Colt? People would have a better impression of them? I can do that.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:02:00 PM EDT
Well I had built my first ever AR-15 from all DPMS parts about 10 years ago and i had a bolt/gas issue with the build. What it boiled down to was, a problem with the bolt or bolt carrier assm. I bought it right from DPMS and it came full assmbled so i called them up and told them what it was doing and they said send it back so i did. And after a week or so i called to ask about the bolt / carrier to see if they got it and to see if they found any thing wrong with it. And the guy told me that my "new" bolt had a coulpe of thousand round on it and they would not warrity it because it was worn out. I told him i bought it new from them about a month before and it only had 30 round on it. But the guy told me that he had been around Ar's for years and he knows what he was talking about . So they sent it back and it still didn't work because they refused to fix my "new" bolt. So i went a bought a Colt bolt / bolt carrier and it worked perfectly. So i tossed my new DPMS bolt / carrier in the trash and sold the gun shortly after words and i now will never own another DPMS rifle or part again They burnt me once that was enough for me not to ever go back.
sorry for my rant but it still stings me to this day.
E3
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:04:55 PM EDT
I really like my DPMS with one exception..........not enough ammo, EEEERRRRRGGGGHHH!
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:08:22 PM EDT
Out of 3 different complete rifles from DPMS, ZERO PROBLEMS.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:13:09 PM EDT
Real problem is I don't have one
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:17:50 PM EDT
There is so much ignorance when it comes to DPMS. Everyone alledges they use inferior material for thier lowers, but its 7075 just like everyone else....which it clearly states on thier web site, if people would bother to look before bashing. Since DPMS does make so many parts and people build lots of guns out of them, its not fair to offer a complaint about a non-DPMS factory gun.
DPMS makes some of the best parts availible, but if some illiterate billy-bob can't follow directions, results will be poor. Besides the tired lower receiver argument and the moderator that feels like its necessary to remind us that he witnessed a DPMS lower*cast* break when it was dropped on the floor. A cast Colt lower isn't just as brittile? I must have cracked because it was made in MN not CT, right? Cast lowers are inferior, which is why forged is now standard. It doesn't matter who makes it, its the material not the manufacture. My several DPMS factory rifles are among the nicest AR's I have ever owned and function is flawless. If you notice people are always slinging the same mud and making the same comments, all of which have been debunked. All of my DPMS weapons are factory built, and they are staked correctly and made out of superior material. DPMS factory weapons are used by LEO and Govt agencies around the world, they are certainly a quality fighting rifle. Don't let a bunch of misinformed people who have never owned a factory DPMS rifle disuade you, they are among the best AR's you can buy.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:21:28 PM EDT
OK, some people are really touting DPMS as being on par with the big dogs. Now I’m curious.

Was DPMS in the running for the DEA and FBI Hostage Rescue Team carbine contract (that RRA won)?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:36:31 PM EDT
The only problem I had with them was with the plastic 308 mags they had before they came out with metal ones. Each time I broke one, I'd drive the 25 miles to their factory and they would happily exchange it for me.
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