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Posted: 2/7/2006 6:28:40 PM EDT
In SOG Feb. flyer, in the no-name AR's they list a AR-18 it has a FAL stock and forearm, flat top and looks like a right side operating handle?????????????????


can't scan and post a picture.......TY
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 8:52:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 9:05:40 PM EDT by RedFalconBill]
Do you mean the DOW FAL-15?
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 9:40:24 PM EDT
No thats not it, I have it scanned but can't post a picture on here. It has a AR-15 lower with a FAL stock and forearm and a flat top receiver of some kind..............
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 9:52:19 PM EDT
Email it to me chris47@bellsouth.net and Ill post it
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 10:00:32 PM EDT
E-mail on it way with the scan .........TY
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 10:01:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 10:04:17 PM EDT by M4A1OwnsYou]

Originally Posted By tiredoldlion:
E-mail on it way with the scan .........TY



Not a problem.

http://dubisteinspundloch.com/ar.JPG
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 10:02:42 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 10:45:34 PM EDT
At first glance, it appeared to be a standard AR with FAL type furniture. Looking at the prices, they seem to be along the bottom end of the spectrum, which may or may not be significant.... What was strange is what appears to be an old style "L" shaped cocking handle. Did anyone else notice this? It appears to have a reciprocating charging handle. Again, if just an AR with FAL furniture, why not say that....why does furniture alone make it an AR18 and not an AR15? An AR-18 that isn't an AR180B is something that I am certainly interested in. Is there anyone that can answer our questions?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:47:07 AM EDT
That seems kinda odd, however IO am interested in the ar pistol add. Its a shame you whited out the price tag...
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:59:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kalahnikid:
tag

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:53:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 3:55:31 AM EDT by Lancelot]
The give away is the "V" in the model name. V is for Vulcan. I called and asked this once before. Although I see the V is not listed in that one. I have seen some of the SOG stuff in person. Its junk.

Run away.



Link Posted: 2/8/2006 4:08:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/8/2006 4:08:36 AM EDT by Bulldawg]
The AR-18 was the original full-auto version of the AR-180. I don't know what the contraption in that ad is. Looks like a standard AR lower but with FAL-looking furniture and an upper with an AK-style operating system.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 6:05:13 AM EDT
What it appears to be is a combination of the AR15 lower and an AR18/AR180 upper. The AR180B is essentially the same thing as it uses the AR15 trigger group. It is just not cosmetically identifiable as an AR15 lower. The AR18/AR180 upper uses a piston and mounts the recoil springs in the upper, not in the lower. Can't tell about the stock interface. Handguards are handguards. If you're making the thing up, you can make the handguards look like whatever you want. FAL, original AR18, AR15/M16, or even a SIG.

I would agree however, that if it is made by Vulcan, don't buy it. Chances are they screwed up the design somewhere and it won't function very well. Then add no customer support to the mix and you have money down the drain. If you really want one, just send me the money instead. I can tell you to fuck off keep your money just as well as Vulcan can. Hell, I'll even give you nothing on sale. $600 and nothing is yours!
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 7:47:29 AM EDT
Man, that's some kind of ugly....

I wonder if it truly is made out of old AR-18 parts kits? Numrich had AR-18 kits for a few years, but they've dried up.

The chrome barrel & chamber makes me think it is an AR-180 or 18 rather than a"b".

Anyone gonna order one and find out?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:14:51 AM EDT
Theoretically, you could make really cheap (but ugly) uppers. I don't know if the AR18 bolt is dimensionally the same as the the AR15, but even if it isn't the system is cheap.

1. Upper receiver. Sheet metal stamping, folded and heat treated, just like an AK. Might have to weld in rails for the bolt carrier.

2. Front and rear trunnions. They're riveted on the AK, but for US aesthetics, they'd probably be welded. You need the trunnions to have the front and rear pivot/lock points. The front trunnion gets the barrel. These would be relatively simple machined items.

3. Its been awhile since I looked at an AR180 bolt carrier and bolt, but they follow a somewhat familiar pattern. Big, square bolt carrier with a gas piston sticking off the front. Bolt is a multi-lugged, rotating bolt, cam actuated, just like the AR. No gas rings. Dual recoil springs contained in the upper receiver.

If he is using surplus AR18/180 parts, he probably has to fabricate an new sheet metal upper receiver that will match up to an AR lower. I would suspect he's using the same front trunnion, barrel and gas system, though if you were doing one from scratch, it would be economical to use a front trunnion that would allow the use of a stock AR barrel.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:25:16 PM EDT
The AR-180 definitely has a bolt guide rail welded in-
http://images16.fotki.com/v272/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4382-vi.jpg
http://images16.fotki.com/v271/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4389-vi.jpg

But it's definitely "rail", not "rails".

http://images15.fotki.com/v265/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4385-vi.jpg
http://images16.fotki.com/v275/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4388-vi.jpg
http://images16.fotki.com/v274/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4387-vi.jpg

There's the bolt & carrier. The Ultimax SAW from Singapore uses a derrivative of this bolt & carrier.

The trunion on an AR-180 is welded to the sheetmetal receiver. The barrel doesn't look to be a "scew-in/screw out type of deal, so to use an AR-15 barrel would require a new trunion, as the Original 180's barrel is welded in.

Can you tell I was bored this afternoon?h.gif
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:42:25 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:56:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ThePitbullofLove:
The AR-180 definitely has a bolt guide rail welded in-
images16.fotki.com/v272/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4382-vi.jpg
images16.fotki.com/v271/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4389-vi.jpg

But it's definitely "rail", not "rails".

images15.fotki.com/v265/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4385-vi.jpg
images16.fotki.com/v275/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4388-vi.jpg
images16.fotki.com/v274/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4387-vi.jpg

There's the bolt & carrier. The Ultimax SAW from Singapore uses a derrivative of this bolt & carrier.

The trunion on an AR-180 is welded to the sheetmetal receiver. The barrel doesn't look to be a "scew-in/screw out type of deal, so to use an AR-15 barrel would require a new trunion, as the Original 180's barrel is welded in.

Can you tell I was bored this afternoon?



I saw dust cover springs in the first pic..........there is a rule somewhere saying that you can't post just bits and pieces of original ar180's...you gotta post a shot of the whole thing.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:02:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Getnlwr:
That seems kinda odd, however IO am interested in the ar pistol add. Its a shame you whited out the price tag...


The AR pistol on that page lists for $437.95.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:25:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:

Originally Posted By ThePitbullofLove:
The AR-180 definitely has a bolt guide rail welded in-
images16.fotki.com/v272/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4382-vi.jpg
images16.fotki.com/v271/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4389-vi.jpg

But it's definitely "rail", not "rails".

images15.fotki.com/v265/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4385-vi.jpg
images16.fotki.com/v275/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4388-vi.jpg
images16.fotki.com/v274/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4387-vi.jpg

There's the bolt & carrier. The Ultimax SAW from Singapore uses a derrivative of this bolt & carrier.

The trunion on an AR-180 is welded to the sheetmetal receiver. The barrel doesn't look to be a "scew-in/screw out type of deal, so to use an AR-15 barrel would require a new trunion, as the Original 180's barrel is welded in.

Can you tell I was bored this afternoon?h.gif



I saw dust cover springs in the first pic..........there is a rule somewhere saying that you can't post just bits and pieces of original ar180's...you gotta post a shot of the whole thing.hr


Oh, this isn't from my complete AR-180...this is from my "spare" upper...(god I love gunbroker...I mean what are the odds of finding a complete AR-180 upper for less than $150? :D)

Okay, since you insist...
http://images16.fotki.com/v276/photos/2/28682/707780/IMG_4392-vi.jpg


You'll note my 180 (Sterling) is wearing an Ace folding stock. When I bought the 180, (well under $400 in early 94 at a local gunshow), the original stock had been broken. I searched in vain for a new stock, but no one, and I mean no one had 180 stocks for sale. So, a buddy and I rigged up a mounting block for an Ace hings & stock, and put her on. Locks up rock solid...better than an original. Sent pix to Ace, they put them on their website, and then, following the ban sunset, they started selling a folding stock pkg for 180B's...coincidence???

Yeah, probably Anyway...here's the pic...:D
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:04:42 PM EDT
Well SOG has not answered my e-mail about it....????????????????
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 8:27:15 AM EDT
Let us know when/if they reply...[
Link Posted: 2/10/2006 9:27:09 AM EDT
btw-they may not be replying becuse they're all out whooping it up at the SHOT SHOW....
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