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Posted: 2/6/2006 11:09:25 AM EDT
Do you think it is worth it to free float a 16" M4-profile barrel? How much of a potential gain in accuracy can I see from switching to a FFHG instead of using the standard CAR handguards?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:11:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:19:03 AM EDT
What'd I ask wrong? Would it be worth it to use a FFHG on any 16" AR-15 barrel? Or should I just stick with the standard CAR handguards?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:19:53 AM EDT
Its worth free floating almost any barrel.
I would say that something like a 16" M4 profile with the lightened section under the handguards might benefit more than most - because of that lightening under the handguards.

How much difference you will see in terms of accuracy is, well, lets just say subject to debate.

If you use a sling, and currently use it properly, and attached to the swivel on the FSB, you may well see a big improvement (assuming you move the swivel to the FFHG).

If you use military ammo, chances are you won't see much difference, because the improvement it liable to be better than the asccuracy of the ammo you are using - switch to a high quality competition type ammo and try a before and after tst to answer the question for yourself.

fwiw, I have free floated my 16" M4 profile (with lightening under handguards) and find it certainly more consistent than it was before -- I didn't do any real before/afte accuracy testing -- IMHO an M4 isn't really a competition gun.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:22:31 AM EDT
do you have the rifle yet?
have you shot it yet?
do you think you are capable of exceding the accuracy of the barrel itself?
if you arent good enough to know the difference of accuracy change does it really make a difference?
if you cant shoot worth a crap how will you know if the ff helped accuracy or not?


tacked thread that i sure your question has been answered in.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:22:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 11:25:52 AM EDT by ASU1911]
Major dupe. Do a site search on Google. We just did this one this morning.

ETA: I'll play. The reason to get a rail is to promote cooling. If you run a sling or a bipod, you can push the barrel, which effects POI. The Army concluded that slinging up tight moved the POI by 4 MOA. That is why you get a float tube.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:26:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ASU1911:
Major dupe. Do a site search on Google. We just did this one this morning.

ETA: I'll play. The reason to get a rail is to promote cooling. If you run a sling or a bipod, you can push the barrel, which effects POI. The Army concluded that slinging up tight moved the POI by 4 MOA. That is why you get a float tube.



i think we do this topic every other day.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:34:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Do you think it is worth it to free float a 16" M4-profile barrel? How much of a potential gain in accuracy can I see from switching to a FFHG instead of using the standard CAR handguards?



The FF rails will let you forward mount an optic, but for a weapon which isn't designed for precision, I know that I've never expected to see any form of accuracy gain. Then again, I don't expect match grade anything from my carbines.

Its all a matter of what you are looking to do.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:41:04 AM EDT
Realistically, it wont improve accuracy enough in a blaster to be worth it, unless you want the other benefits, then it helps. On a Recce I would want a free float tube. Aside from cost and weight, it has no real disadvantages on a blaster.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:48:14 AM EDT
i put non free floated rails on my rifle and it shifted my poa about 4 in left and 4 low of my orginal

zero..."i took everything off" and left it stock
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 12:32:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:


i think we do this topic every other day.




That and a slew of others, kinda reminds me of Groundhog day.

Personal preference, unless you have a match barrel, I wouldnt go through any extra oops to FF the 16".
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 1:00:23 PM EDT
I plan to use a single point sling at the rear of the lower receiver.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 1:05:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
do you have the rifle yet?
have you shot it yet?
do you think you are capable of exceding the accuracy of the barrel itself?
if you arent good enough to know the difference of accuracy change does it really make a difference?
if you cant shoot worth a crap how will you know if the ff helped accuracy or not?


tacked thread that i sure your question has been answered in.



I don't have the rifle yet, I just have the lower so far. I have a few more parts coming in, but I'd like to plan ahead and either get the barrel assembly kit (with plastic handguards) or just the barrel and add my FFHG. I'd like to just keep it consistent.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:21:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ASU1911:
Major dupe. Do a site search on Google. We just did this one this morning.


Since I'm new here I figure I just don't know how to do it the right way but the search function here seems FUBAR to me, particularly compared to other forums I frequent. I searched earlier for "break in" on the AR15 section for the last 30 days and got zero, ZERO hits. What gives?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:29:57 PM EDT
Free floating is the way to go. It is better for accuracy and you get rails that you can mount accessory's too later down the road...
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:44:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Edbert:

Originally Posted By ASU1911:
Major dupe. Do a site search on Google. We just did this one this morning.


Since I'm new here I figure I just don't know how to do it the right way but the search function here seems FUBAR to me, particularly compared to other forums I frequent. I searched earlier for "break in" on the AR15 section for the last 30 days and got zero, ZERO hits. What gives?



Use Google. Search query site::AR15.com::
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:04:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Do you think it is worth it to free float a 16" M4-profile barrel?


No

Originally Posted By metroplex:
How much of a potential gain in accuracy can I see from switching to a FFHG instead of using the standard CAR handguards?


You have a better chance of winning the lottery
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 4:08:04 PM EDT
I'd like to thank everyone for the no BS-assessment. I've decided to keep it stock like my Glock.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:45:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Edbert:

Originally Posted By ASU1911:
Major dupe. Do a site search on Google. We just did this one this morning.


Since I'm new here I figure I just don't know how to do it the right way but the search function here seems FUBAR to me, particularly compared to other forums I frequent. I searched earlier for "break in" on the AR15 section for the last 30 days and got zero, ZERO hits. What gives?




try just searching "break" sometimes people spell it wrong or what not.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 7:05:02 PM EDT
I think the question is WHY NOT FF? It serves no disadvantages; only advantages.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:28:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 7:30:15 AM EDT by metroplex]
So if I were to use Wolf for practicing and then load up 75gr TAP for defensive use (never using a bipod or sling to steady shot) the FFHG won't yield much difference? A lot of the info posted thus far points to just keeping the stock CAR handguards for my intended application. I do intend to use the rifle for carbine courses and for defensive use / zombie hunting. I do not have any lasers, tactical lights, VFGs, tactical Picatinny mount silverware, etc...
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:49:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
I think the question is WHY NOT FF? It serves no disadvantages; only advantages.



Hmm, I can think of plenty... extra weight, extra money, less comfortible grip (if it's a railed FF and you don't use a VFG), PITA install (depending on model) and after all of that you get little, if any, increase in accuracy.


Originally Posted By metroplex:
So if I were to use Wolf for practicing and then load up 75gr TAP for defensive use (never using a bipod or sling to steady shot) the FFHG won't yield much difference? A lot of the info posted thus far points to just keeping the stock CAR handguards for my intended application. I do intend to use the rifle for carbine courses and for defensive use / zombie hunting. I do not have any lasers, tactical lights, VFGs, tactical Picatinny mount silverware, etc...



You have answered your own question. If you are not going to mount anything to it and all of your shooting is offhand then a railed (or even non-railed) FF forearm would be a complete and total waste of your money.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 7:54:21 AM EDT
I disagree with the above. If your building it yourself there is no reason not to. Weight is negligable, I've never had a problem installing one, and you can get enexpensive ones with no rails or YHM used in the $80 range.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:09:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 8:10:10 AM EDT by metroplex]
I've been trying to find a comparison of FF vs non-FF using the same loads and same barrel just to see what the quantitative average differences were.

The March 2006 issue of Guns and Ammo tests the S&W MP 15 Tactical vs Standard (Tactical has Troy MRF-CX and Std has standard CAR HGs). The Standard got tighter groupings using all 6 different ammo loads than the Tactical. WTF, over? Improper installation?
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 8:51:41 AM EDT
the FF upgrade offers you more than potentially increasing the rifles accuracy depending on your needs.

I think it's a good idea if you want to spend your AR allocated funding on a FF system. I'd be surprised if you found many here that called it a complete waste of money regardless of your needs. The concept makes good sense from a target shooting, practical, tactical, SHTF, hunting and even asthetic (sp?) perspective. I think they make sense - IMHO


Link Posted: 2/15/2006 9:31:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 9:34:49 AM EDT by Stickman]
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 11:08:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 11:16:19 AM EDT by metroplex]
I spent quite some time researching the FFHG's that are highly praised on ARFCOM and they all have their little quirks like fitment issues, how it attaches to the barrel nut, how it can spin, etc... I haven't seen a totally bulletproof design that I liked.

Samson and Troy: Adds a decent amount of weight (manageable), but relies on two wings that clamp against the upper receiver. Quality of fit / play will depend on upper receiver design. It just seems that with enough vibration the aluminum can wear away by a few thousandths and result in loose HGs?

Midwest: It's one heavy SOB and based on Forest's sheet, it's heavier than the ARMS SIR.

Daniel Defense: Other than a lock ring, there's no way to secure the HG to the barrel nut other than the SS pins. It's light though.

LaRue 7.0: Good design but it is out of stock for several weeks+. With the rail covers, it will still add about 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound to the front end (for a quarter of a grand).

YHM FF tubes: I have one for my 24" AR-15 (Harris bipod, mostly a bench/prone/target shooter) and the overall setup weighs 11lb w/o a magazine. The HG can get loose and spin around, so I made sure to tighten the lock ring and to use threadlocker. I don't like this concept for a battle carbine. I don't want stuff coming loose in my hand during a course.

If I were deciding which to approve for military issue, none of these would be approved except for maybe the LaRue.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 12:28:43 PM EDT
I finally got my M4 handguards and wow. They're tiny! I'm going to stay with the plastic handguards.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 6:59:11 PM EDT
If you use a taught sling, you'll wished you free floated. If you rest it on anything and put any pressure on it to steady it, you'll notice it. If you're always going to shoot off hand and not use a tight sling, there's no need. If you want a vertical grip, it'd be better with a free float handguard. Personally, if you had the money, I don't see why you wouldn't. But, for most, it's probably not that big of a deal, especially when shooting cqb. But I know I prefer it free floated, no matter how short the barrel is.
Link Posted: 2/16/2006 12:54:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/16/2006 1:05:03 AM EDT by metroplex]
I will be using a single point sling at the carbine plate. Most of it will be off-hand shooting (where I'll be supporting it with my off-hand). I may rest it on sandbags or wood/objects to steady for bench shooting/zeroing. From the M&P 15 tests, I would assume the author is steadying his Standard rifle somehow, and it has the standard M4/Car handguards.
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