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Posted: 2/3/2006 12:20:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 12:21:34 PM EDT by thorium]
CA DOJ has released an announcement on the lower receivers

www.ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/ar15notice.pdf

Admins/Mods: Could we get a sticky on this for a week or so?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:28:21 PM EDT
doh
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:29:43 PM EDT
Yeah... it will find its way to the courts and who knows what will happen.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:05:06 PM EDT
what is the translation of all that?

(sorry I can't read legal jargon right now. its been a long week )
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:10:16 PM EDT
Translation:

They (CA DOJ) are creating a new class of assault weapons, which are exactly the same as FAB-10's but require registration and are subject to all AW restrictions, but which cannot have any evil features.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:12:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 1:13:43 PM EDT by epeescott]
Here's the translation of that, which is exactly as I noted earlier and got flamed for here.

Californians buying these lowers at the vastly inflated prices they were, were doing so under the premise that as long as they put no evil features on it, it was legal to buy. It was.

Their next premise was that once the lowers were declared "Assault Weapons" and registered, they could add the evil features.

Well, what the DOJ is saying is that since those features were illegal after the original registration period ended, they are STILL illegal to add to a legally registered lower.

In effect, you can legally purchase and own that lower, but you can NEVER put any evil features on it.

Moreover, DOJ has said they will use the registration paperwork to ENFORCE the "no evil features" and prosecute violators.


Edit to add: Basically, ye're FOOKED!

Move out - I'm looking at Flagstaff and Salt Lake City.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:18:51 PM EDT
DOJ doesn't have legislative powers. They're over-stepping their authority, and this will be challenged in the courts. Or, it's a stall tactic by DOJ to discourage the flood of lowers into the state.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:25:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By epeescott:
Here's the translation of that, which is exactly as I noted earlier and got flamed for here.

Californians buying these lowers at the vastly inflated prices they were, were doing so under the premise that as long as they put no evil features on it, it was legal to buy. It was.

Their next premise was that once the lowers were declared "Assault Weapons" and registered, they could add the evil features.

Well, what the DOJ is saying is that since those features were illegal after the original registration period ended, they are STILL illegal to add to a legally registered lower.

In effect, you can legally purchase and own that lower, but you can NEVER put any evil features on it.

Moreover, DOJ has said they will use the registration paperwork to ENFORCE the "no evil features" and prosecute violators.


Edit to add: Basically, ye're FOOKED!

Move out - I'm looking at Flagstaff and Salt Lake City.



Then how are they going to determine between a fab-10 and any other unlisted lower? Why do fab-10s not have to follow AW rules and an unlisted lower does?

A fab-10 you can keep in your trunk all the time, one of these lowers, even if configured in a manner EXACTLY THE SAME as a fab-10 can only be transported to and from specific permitted locations.

Again, as stated above, the DOJ is adding language to law that the legislature passed, they only have the ability to keep the list up to date, not add categories and interpret the legislative intent.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:27:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BamBam-31:
DOJ doesn't have legislative powers. They're over-stepping their authority, and this will be challenged in the courts. Or, it's a stall tactic by DOJ to discourage the flood of lowers into the state.



Don't hold your breath. Don't see anyone challenging the ATF's authority to interpret law. Show me even one Kalif. court that will strike down any firearm-related restrictions.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:35:03 PM EDT
Thats exactly what the Harrott decision was.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:36:06 PM EDT
Like I said. Sure, you and I and most all here think we are legally in the right.

That is not going to stop the CADOJ from having your ass arrested and going thru possible YEARS of appeals.

Got money?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:51:52 PM EDT
What are they going to arrest me for?


BTW: All your fencing are belong to us.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:51:06 PM EDT
NOw don't get me wrong, I like all the Silicone in Cali, but I wouldn't live there. I better the is more silicone in Las Vagas than Cali, so just GET THE FUCK OUT!!!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:52:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LOW2000:
What are they going to arrest me for?


BTW: All your fencing are belong to us.



They said it in the letter: They will use registration paperwork to monitor purchasers, and arrest them for violation of the AWB when they get caught with evil features on a previously unlisted lower.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:06:00 PM EDT
oh snap
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:24:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 4:33:44 PM EDT by Homeinvader]
Back when this whole thing started, I posted my opinion that it wouldn't work or at least that DOJ/AG would not allow it to work for the exact reasons laid out in this most recent memo. I was disagreed with to no end. Turns out that DOJ took exactly, precisely the view I thought they would take, that barring taking no action whatsoever and leaving everyone stuck with stripped lowers they couldn't build, they were going to disallow the post-registration addition of AW features citing SB23. It was always the only way out for a rabidly anti-gun AG, no one should have been surprised. Gray Davis hold-out, very liberal, a guy who has defended his contrary-to-law firearms viewpoints and practices all the way to the highest levels of state court. He is not about to accept defeat and allow for the creation of thousands of new AWs through the use of Roberti-Roos mechanisms. He can also not allow off-list AR-type lowers to continue to be sold in-state, making, from his perspective, the country's most common-sense gun laws look weak. What else is he going to do? This is a carefully thought out way to get him the best of both worlds, they get added to the list AND no one can do anything with them other than build a non-SB23 firearm.

Furthermore, everyone was citing law, letter of the law viewpoints on how and why this will work and no one ever took a look at the AG's track record of keeping to the letter of the law. There is a state pre-emption in firearm laws, the state law specifically reserves the exclusive right to create firearm laws. There can be no local or county level laws regarding firearms according to state law. But look at LA's bans, SF's recent anti-gun "laws", Hollywood's long-standing Saturday-Night Special Ban, all local laws that have NEVER been challenged by the AG. Why would anyone expect him to act differently here?

Not that I agree AT ALL with today's memo, it's clearly not rooted in law. I just know the culture at DOJ and in the AG's office and no one else seemed to see the signs. Hopefully it'll be shot down in court, but that's also his back door. While this is tied up in court for the next 2 years, the state legislature now has more time to review and pass new legislation actually MAKING the AG's viewpoint legally sound.

Not trying to gloat, just saying the signs were on the wall the whole time.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:29:26 PM EDT
So I put a fixed stock on one and then a "post-ban" upper. What if it has a fixed 10 round magazine attached? There are some other questions that will have to be addressed here that the "memo" does not cover. Me thinks this is going to be a long drawn out process, fought in the courts.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:00:54 PM EDT
Unfortunately it looks as if the only way to get a pro-gun opinion on this might be through the courts in California.

I feel dirty for having written that somehow...
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:07:27 PM EDT



Move out - I'm looking at Flagstaff and Salt Lake City.



I moved to Albuquerque, where affordable housing can still be had. No jobs, per se, but the housing is affordable. If you have a job.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:22:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 6:25:12 AM EDT by Dace]

Originally Posted By redfisher:
what is the translation of all that?

(sorry I can't read legal jargon right now. its been a long week )



Californians are getting f***ed over by the politicians once again (like I called it). They got so carried away thinking they found a loophole in the law they forgot that the people running that state dont care about the law or peoples rights. They do whatever the fuck they want.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:20:52 AM EDT
This is not the end of the world. My Bushmaster 10 round mag is legally bolted in. Every time I drive to Arizona, it takes 30 seconds to swap in the right parts. If there is ever a riot or societal breakdown, it takes 30 seconds to swap in the right parts.

I am better off than I was 2 months ago.

Hopefully, the NRA will grow the cajones to get a real 2nd ammendment case to the SCOTUS. With our two new picks, it is now or never. For those of us in occupied territory, it is our only hope.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:56:07 AM EDT
Damn,and I thought the gun laws in MA were fucked...

Were is the NRA on all this ? Is it because the guns are not a "hunting" type,the NRA doesn't give a shit ?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:46:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TrijiCog:
Damn,and I thought the gun laws in MA were fucked...

Were is the NRA on all this ? Is it because the guns are not a "hunting" type,the NRA doesn't give a shit ?



NRA veiws Califronias AW ban as a lost cuase.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:55:12 AM EDT
Thats why its hard for me to give money to the NRA they just dont do the shit that needs to be done when its most important...they should be using money for national air time to show the law abidings side of things and hope fully educate people that were ignorant before but they are not doing this ....so wheres the money going and being spent on....in a situation where californians are being held by a tyrannical state government and being deprived their garunteed rights I fail to see why the NRA and United States Supreme Court are not jumping on this injustice.Remember thes words of the constitution"Governments are elected to protect our UNALIENABLE rights"namely the first 10 of the bill of rights,our charter rights as Americans"when it becomes destructive of these ends it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it.The liberals always say the constitution needs to be progressive...to evolve..evolve what to them being the ruling class..not my idea of a republic.I say we as Americans need to start living up to the strict interpretation of the constitution..to practice what it says and means if its to be what I was taught in school to be the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND...yes at one time there were teachers who didnt teach revisionist history or teach only their opinion as historical fact.
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