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Posted: 2/2/2006 4:17:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 4:18:15 PM EDT by metroplex]
Seeing how everyone has now jacked up the price for the FS2000 to well over $2000 ($2100-2200), I was thinking of just skipping it and going with something priced more sanely and gets the job done all the same.

Any suggestions?

16" mid-length AR-15?
18" SPR setup?
Rhineland Arms 5.7 upper (I have P90 mags and 5.7x28 ammo...)

I've grown quite fond of my AR-15 due to its modularity and availability of parts/accessories. I have all the tools needed to build AR-15s and I've built/stripped one AR-15 already. I can do another without much difficulty. Heck, I built it for about $600-$700 in parts.

But I'd rather go to something slightly different (piston upper AR?), any ideas?

My current AR15 has a 24" Bushmaster NM with a free float handguard.
I would like something less bulky/lighter and compact but with a 16" barrel at the bare minimum (SBR not allowed in MI).

Thanks in advance
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:11:03 PM EDT

POF M4 upper, Noveske krink brake

Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:16:54 PM EDT
Double gold plated 1911's....

John Woo will be proud.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:25:21 PM EDT
God I could build one hell of an AR with 2K easy!
The only guns I'm interested in are the semi PKMs and the Sig 55x rifle making a comeback, also AUGs too.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:52:57 PM EDT
Woopps I forgot to mention that it's not going to be a $2000 budget. Probably under $1000 for the AR.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 6:06:41 PM EDT
If you're going to spend less than $1k for an AR, then you might as well just build a simple rifle with irons and use the best parts you can get within your budget.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:10:31 PM EDT
16" Middy.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:17:34 PM EDT
Ace riflestocks was working on an AR15 bullpup and last I heard they were going to show it at this years shot show. I heard this about a year ago and havnt asked them about it lately. It will be interesting to see if they kept up with the project and are in fact going to have it at the show.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:26:18 PM EDT
Wow. Can't wait. I am a big fan of their awesome stocks and think they can probably do a killer job on making a bullpup!
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 7:56:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:
Wow. Can't wait. I am a big fan of their awesome stocks and think they can probably do a killer job on making a bullpup!




You cant deny their stocks are high quality regardless of whether or not they are "cool new mod" everyone is doing.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:14:52 PM EDT
when I joined this site they had been around for awhile. I always thought they looked like shit. It's not about them not being cool and new. For me, it's all about the fact that they are a tube of aluminum with a foam cover. They remind me of a cheap weight set my dad had a long time ago where the foam just rotted away. They also remind me of the aluminum baseball bats with the foam "grip" and I think they are just plain stupid. Why do you need an aluminum tubular stock? What's wrong with a standard plastic collapsible or A2 buttstock?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 8:32:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/2/2006 8:33:02 PM EDT by JohnnyMcEldoo]

Originally Posted By JosephR:
when I joined this site they had been around for awhile. I always thought they looked like shit. It's not about them not being cool and new. For me, it's all about the fact that they are a tube of aluminum with a foam cover. They remind me of a cheap weight set my dad had a long time ago where the foam just rotted away. They also remind me of the aluminum baseball bats with the foam "grip" and I think they are just plain stupid. Why do you need an aluminum tubular stock? What's wrong with a standard plastic collapsible or A2 buttstock?




The Ar buffer tube is an aluminum tube as well. Ive owned 3 Ace stocks. 2 folding ones for AKs and one socom for an AR. They are built very well and cost a little more. Nothing is wrong with the standard collapsible or A2 buttstock. I mostly just dont like the the romanian and russian folders for the Ak's.

Sorry for the hi-jack


Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:59:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 3:00:18 AM EDT by metroplex]
The more I look at the FS2000, the more I am not impressed:

17.4" barrel (only 1.4" longer than 16" AR-15 barrels) with a 29.1" OAL (about 3" shorter than an AR-15 16" carbine with the collapsible stock). $2200 for FS2000, less than $1000 for AR-15.

We're not talking about major differences here. If FN Herstal went with a 20" barrel, it would have matched the same profile as a 16" AR-15 but with 4" of extra barrel for increased velocity (and increased range for M193/M855 to fragment). With the 1/7 twist barrels, it can use Mk 262 Mod 1 or 77 gr BH. But I don't see anything really special to justify $2200.

Either that, or I got hit with BRD big time!
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:20:06 AM EDT

Bullpups=
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:29:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MP906:
Bullpups=



yeah, pretty much any rifle or it's working components not originally designed to become or to be used in a bullpup configuration blows bad.

There are TONS of nice bullpups out there like the AUG and the neat little Israeli things. -I think they are Israeli.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 8:31:02 AM EDT
Just curious... have you actually touched/held/shot the 2000?

It does nothing for me...
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:24:14 AM EDT
You mean the Tavors? They are nice. The P90/PS90 is like a mini-AUG copy. The P90 strips out into similar components!

The price for the FS2000 is making me look elsewhere.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 7:53:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 7:55:00 PM EDT by steven1513]
As already noted the .223/5.56 cartridge is velocity dependant. It's effectiveness is largely due to bullet fragmentation. That fragmentation occurs at velocitys of 2700+fps. From a 16 inch barrel the bullet is travelling at 2600+fps only to about 75 yards. Just as a pistol cannot do a carbine's job, a carbine cannot do a rifle's job.

There is an AR platform solution! How about an AR-10 with 16 in barrel? You'll have the same manual of arms as your AR-15 in the hard hitting 7.62 caliber. You still have mounting points for all the wiz-bang gadgets we've grown to love, something you won't find on an obscure piece like the FN.

A new, collapsible stock AR-10 can be had for $1300. I even recently saw one "as new" for $1000. This begs me to ask, why spend $2k+ on a carbine?
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:09:34 PM EDT
Good point. I've about given up on the FS2000. It's way too overpriced for what it is, a $2200 bullpup 5.56 rifle.

I thought about the AR-10 but I don't like the price of .308 Winchester. I can't afford to shoot as much 308 as I shoot 9mm Luger or 223.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 5:56:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 1:49:48 PM EDT by steven1513]

Originally Posted By metroplex:
...overpriced for what it is, a $2200 bullpup 5.56 rifle.


Exactly. But I'm not a hater and would never criticise somebody for spending $X on a gun if they can afford it.

Me, I can't justify $2k+ on another carbine. Maybe after more classes Blackwater and Thunder Ranch, night vision goggles, a BMG rifle, etc. So, yea, after about $20k of other stuff I'll look at another carbine. There are simply too gear out there to have before a $2k+ carbine.

BTW, mil-surp 7.62 ammo runs about the same as 5.56, ~$200/1000!
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:23:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By steven1513:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
...overpriced for what it is, a $2200 bullpup 5.56 rifle.


Exactly. But I'm not a hater and would never criticise somebody for spending $X on a gun if they can afford it.

BTW, mil-surp 7.62 ammo runs about the same as 5.56, ~$200/1000!



I shoot mainly Wolf 223 Rem at 10 cents a round
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:32:47 AM EDT
Depending on state regulations, I'd vote SBR, and make it a piston number.

This way you can go with an upper-only plan, and have a truly unique shooter.


Maybe a 10.5 LMT upper (this one posted by TM uxb)




Link Posted: 3/5/2006 1:00:50 PM EDT
I'm not that interested in piston uppers unless they were priced the same as regular uppers.
SBRs aren't allowed in MI, otherwise I would have started the paperwork on SBR'ing my PS90.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:31:45 PM EDT
Any one know when the FS2000 is coming out?
If is already out or when it dose come out could someone take detailed pictures of the rifle and its components.

metroplex the images on wikipedia were awesomehanks
link to pictures en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PS90
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 12:39:24 PM EDT
I too am going to pass on the FS2000.

I actually like bullpups, but the price of the FS2000 can buy me enough AUG spares to keep mine running for the next 100 years. And AUG parts aren't exactly cheap.
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