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Posted: 2/2/2006 8:57:52 AM EDT
i sent my query out back on oct 5th and got my response dated jan 23! i had asked if i could alter or remove the markings on my m4gery and sterling nixon, chief of the firearms and technology branch, said i can change any damn thing i want as long as it ain't the serial number!!! (his words! really! hahaha not really)

all the markings regs are for manufacturers and importers.

looks like i'll soon be signing over my first born child to steve sawyer (likemopar)!
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:15:54 AM EDT
can you scan it and post a copy of it here, I'd like to see that for myself
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 9:19:40 AM EDT
Me 2
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:22:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By edwin247:
Me 2



+1
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 10:47:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
i sent my query out back on oct 5th and got my response dated jan 23! i had asked if i could alter or remove the markings on my m4gery and sterling nixon, chief of the firearms and technology branch, said i can change any damn thing i want as long as it ain't the serial number!!! (his words! really! hahaha not really)

all the markings regs are for manufacturers and importers.

looks like i'll soon be signing over my first born child to steve sawyer (likemopar)!



You won't regret it. Top notch work, that man does. I'll be sending him another receiver to engrave this coming spring when I get back to work (from college).
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:11:18 PM EDT
here it is! sorry for the real low quality of the scan (the letter IS signed!). good to go, right?



Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:22:29 PM EDT
I guess it's like the "Do Not Remove....." tag on your mattress!
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:32:15 PM EDT
So I can use Durafill on my RRA logo and then go over it with Duracoat? Or, on my GT USA AK receiver I can fill in the damn bullseye logo?
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 12:39:20 PM EDT
That is correct, only the serial number is mentioned in Section 922(k). You need to check your local laws though. Many states are much more restrictive in regards to altering markings on firearms.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 2:05:04 PM EDT
Haha, that is great. Now we can finally get rid of that deer!!!

Too bad you didn't find out what was legal to put back on.....for example, if you were making a Retro, it would be nice to remove info other than Colt/Armalite, and engrave what was more accurate for the time.

Yes that would cause all kinds of headaches but it would 'look' authentic.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 2:47:11 PM EDT
tag for reference later.
Link Posted: 2/2/2006 5:40:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ekie:
That is correct, only the serial number is mentioned in Section 922(k). You need to check your local laws though. Many states are much more restrictive in regards to altering markings on firearms.



I talked to Steve (ilikemopar) about sending him a unmarked lower (finished 80% lower) to him to have it engraved with my info for SBR purposes. He said not to do it because of the commerce laws involved. I.E shipping parts across state lines without markings. The serial number only MIGHT suffice for ID purposes, but I would agree with Ekie and check OTHER laws, especially any commerce laws you would have to deal with.

If you are going to keep it for yourself or not ever ship it out of state, then this doesnt apply.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:53:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 4:55:36 AM EDT by hardcorps1775]

Originally Posted By edwin247:
Haha, that is great. Now we can finally get rid of that deer!!!

Too bad you didn't find out what was legal to put back on.....for example, if you were making a Retro, it would be nice to remove info other than Colt/Armalite, and engrave what was more accurate for the time.

Yes that would cause all kinds of headaches but it would 'look' authentic.


ahhh, but you can! i sent the batfe an indepth explanation of what i wanted to do (see below) and what i'm reading is that i can do ANYTHING i want other than alter the serial number! but good advice to check local laws!


U.S. Department of Justice
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
Washington Field Division (Technical Branch)
607 14th Street, NW
Suite 620
Washington, DC 20005

Dear Sirs,

After checking your FAQ site I have a question I couldn't find a definitive answer for and I'm hoping you can provide a little enlightenment.

Markings on Firearms. What are the rules and regs pertaining to these? I understand that altering or removing serial numbers is strictly a no-no but what about other markings?

Specifically, I have a Bushmaster semiauto version of the M4 carbine currently being used by our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. I would like to make the following modifications on the left side of the receiver:

a. Remove manufacturer's goofy coiled snake trademark (although the name and address would not be touched)
b. Add "PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVT." in place of trademark directly above serial number
c. Change "CAL. .223-5.56MM" to "CAL. 5.56 MM"
d. Change "MODEL XM15-E25" to "M4A1 CARBINE"
e. Change fire selector markings from "SAFE" and "FIRE" to "SAFE", "SEMI", and "AUTO"

I would also like to make the following modifications on the right side of the receiver:

a. Change fire selector markings from "SAFE" and "FIRE" to "SAFE", "SEMI", and "AUTO" (see "e." above)

I have attached pictures showing the original receiver, approximations of what I want changed, and a picture of an actual M4A1 carbine from Iraq.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:05:51 AM EDT
When I was looking at making lowers I asked about the legality of marking lowers like "GAU-5" and "XM177E2" and so forth.

They responded that it wasn't illegal, but I might want to consider the possible effects of the units being confused with full auto units.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:20:45 AM EDT
I've been thinking about buying a stag lower and filling in the stag. The rest of it doesn't bug me.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:30:08 AM EDT
great news
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:43:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Essayons:
I've been thinking about buying a stag lower and filling in the stag. The rest of it doesn't bug me.



Isn't CMT the maker of Stag's lower? Can't you just go to CMT and get a no-logo lower? Try Denny from Globaltactical. He got a batch of custom CMT lowers with his name on them and no logo. If they are the same receiver, wouldn't it be easier to just fill in one with less markings than a deer and antlers?

I think you should fill in the model number underneath the deer head and put "JAEGERMEISTER" and also get some of the Jaeger logo added up and around the deer head.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:23:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
...sterling nixon, chief of the firearms and technology branch, said i can change any damn thing i want as long as it ain't the serial number!!! ...
all the markings regs are for manufacturers and importers.




Just to clarify, this applies to Title 1/non-NFA firearms only. If you have an SBR or are planning on SBRing your firearm, don't mess with any of the required the markings.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:40:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TapperMan:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
...sterling nixon, chief of the firearms and technology branch, said i can change any damn thing i want as long as it ain't the serial number!!! ...
all the markings regs are for manufacturers and importers.




Just to clarify, this applies to Title 1/non-NFA firearms only. If you have an SBR or are planning on SBRing your firearm, don't mess with any of the required the markings.



why? how?
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 1:27:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JosephR:

Originally Posted By TapperMan:

Originally Posted By hardcorps1775:
...sterling nixon, chief of the firearms and technology branch, said i can change any damn thing i want as long as it ain't the serial number!!! ...
all the markings regs are for manufacturers and importers.




Just to clarify, this applies to Title 1/non-NFA firearms only. If you have an SBR or are planning on SBRing your firearm, don't mess with any of the required the markings.



why? how?



Because those are the marking legally required of a manufacturer, which is what you are when you file a form 1.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 2:49:00 PM EDT
This comes up every so often, so I have the research I did on it saved so I can post it as necessary:


Unless it is a Title 2 firearm, everything can go except the serial number. Your state or local laws may differ.

For Title 1 (non-NFA firearms), the following is unlawful:

18 USC Sec. 922

It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport,
ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm
which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number
removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any
firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial
number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been
shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

For Title 2 (NFA) firearms:

26 USC Sec. 5861
Identification of firearms other than destructive devices
Each manufacturer and importer and anyone making a firearm shall
identify each firearm, other than a destructive device,
manufactured, imported, or made by a serial number which may not be
readily removed, obliterated, or altered, the name of the
manufacturer, importer, or maker, and such other identification as
the Secretary may by regulations prescribe.

It shall be unlawful for any person -

(g) to obliterate, remove, change, or alter the serial number
or other identification of a firearm required by this chapter; or
(h) to receive or possess a firearm having the serial number or
other identification required by this chapter obliterated,
removed, changed, or altered; or
(i) to receive or possess a firearm which is not identified by
a serial number as required by this chapter

Other info:

Non-NFA marking requirements
NFA marking requirements

For non-NFA firearms, it is unlawful to remove the serial number. No prohibition is made on the removal of other required markings. For NFA firearms, not only is the removal of the serial number prohibited, but also the removal of other required markings.


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