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Posted: 1/31/2006 5:37:27 PM EDT
I'm thinking about building my next AR....and I've seen a lot of these 2-stage" National Match "or "Match" triggers.

Are they really that much better than a standard trigger?

I'm thinking they may be over-kill in a 16" CAR build, but might do well for longer ranges in my 20".

I've never shot a NM trigger so I have no idea what they're like.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:53:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 5:57:00 PM EDT by BLouie]
National Match triggers are a huge improvement over most stock triggers. My Bushmaster stock trigger is HEAVY. Probably an 8lb pull with lots of creep. A real piece of crap for an expensive rifle.

I also have a Jard single stage trigger that breaks at around 2.5lbs and provides complete customization for sear engagement, disconnect travel, safety engagement and overtravel. If you get one, I strongly suggest having a professional gunsmith get it set-up for you unless you have experience with trigger work. These triggers have some very unsafe behavior if any one of the four adjustment points gets adjusted without tweaking the others. If set improperly set or adjusted and not rebalanced, you will get any one of the following:

- Double fire on single trigger pull
- Fire without trigger pull switching from Safe to Fire
- Hammer riding the carrier after first shot so that you can't fire a second shot without chambering a new round
- Fire on safety with trigger pull

Many people praise the Rock River 2-stage national match trigger. I've also heard good things about the Chip McCormick triggers as well.

My next purchase is a Chip McCormick singe stage to replace my Jard (I think it's too unsafe). If your building from a lower and like two stage triggers, the Rock River lowers now come with their national match stock. Just be sure to ask before you buy so you don't get the old trigger instead!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:57:54 PM EDT
the rock river is not bad. it is a lot better than standard FCG for its intended purpose.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:00:04 PM EDT
Can't say that I've ever fired a so called "standard" trigger more than once or so on an AR.

My RRA (16") has one standard from the factory, and I don't see how people get along without them. It's very smooth and crisp. Some don't like them for carbine classes, and I wouldn't recommend it for bump-firing, since it tends to have the hammer ride the bolt forward, but I like mine.

One caveat is that supposedly the NM triggers are "tuned" to the individual lower they're installed in at the factory, whereas one that you install may need some tweaking. I could be wrong. Hopefully bigbore or one of the RRA mafia can help out if I am.

The other ARs I've shot were a 6.8 SPC build (gritty, nasty trigger...felt like a MAK-90 I shot once), and an adjustable JARD (sp?) trigger on a 20" tack driver setup that a guy at the NRA range let me play with once. The JARD was very nice too, but single stage.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:32:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BaronFitz:One caveat is that supposedly the NM triggers are "tuned" to the individual lower they're installed in at the factory, whereas one that you install may need some tweaking.

Nope, Rock River NM triggers are not fitted to individual lowers. They are nice, but they are a mass-produced item.

However, John Holliger (White Oak Precision) will tune a RRA NM trigger and make it extra nice. Even then, he stones the contact surfaces within the trigger itself, and his tuning does not marry the trigger to any particular lower.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:52:08 PM EDT
Thanks for the correction.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:34:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By BaronFitz:One caveat is that supposedly the NM triggers are "tuned" to the individual lower they're installed in at the factory, whereas one that you install may need some tweaking.

Nope, Rock River NM triggers are not fitted to individual lowers. They are nice, but they are a mass-produced item.

However, John Holliger (White Oak Precision) will tune a RRA NM trigger and make it extra nice. Even then, he stones the contact surfaces within the trigger itself, and his tuning does not marry the trigger to any particular lower.



I have had 4 RRA MN 2 stage triggers. Even though they all functioned out of box, ALL of them needed tuned to work optimumly. They ALL needed tuned differently for the different lowers. 2 went back to RRA to be tuned to specific lower by them. Parts varied in size and shape between kits enough that you could not swap hammers between kits. All have significantly different take up in first stage.
I do like them, easier to install than a regular trigger, but I have heard they don't always hold up to duty use.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:39:00 PM EDT
I had a RRA lower with a 2-stage NM trigger in it. It broke very cleanly with about a 3lb. pull.
It was wonderful.

IMHO a very wise investment for the extra $70 or so you'll spend to get it.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 4:10:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By clippen:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By BaronFitz:One caveat is that supposedly the NM triggers are "tuned" to the individual lower they're installed in at the factory, whereas one that you install may need some tweaking.

Nope, Rock River NM triggers are not fitted to individual lowers. They are nice, but they are a mass-produced item.

However, John Holliger (White Oak Precision) will tune a RRA NM trigger and make it extra nice. Even then, he stones the contact surfaces within the trigger itself, and his tuning does not marry the trigger to any particular lower.



I have had 4 RRA MN 2 stage triggers. Even though they all functioned out of box, ALL of them needed tuned to work optimumly. They ALL needed tuned differently for the different lowers. 2 went back to RRA to be tuned to specific lower by them. Parts varied in size and shape between kits enough that you could not swap hammers between kits. All have significantly different take up in first stage.
I do like them, easier to install than a regular trigger, but I have heard they don't always hold up to duty use.

What exactly is "tuning them for a different lower"? The only part of the trigger system that touches or interfaces with the lower are the pins.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 12:57:20 PM EDT
yeah and if pin holes are drilled differently or vary between lowers, then hammer and trigger geometry and engagement/contact differ.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:22:29 PM EDT
They are very nice, and they are an excellent shooting aid, but unreliable compared to stock fire control groups. If your use of the rifle does not require complete reliability, go for it.
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