New Smith & Wesson AR-15 variant M&P15 Would YOU buy one?. *POLL* UPDATE * PHOTOS ADDED PAGE 4 - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - New Smith & Wesson AR-15 variant M&P15 Would YOU buy one?. *POLL* UPDATE * PHOTOS ADDED PAGE 4 (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 2/2/2006 8:18:38 PM EDT

[#1]

Posted: 2/2/2006 8:32:05 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
members.cox.net/drmark/SWAR15.jpg

Whoopee.

but thanks for the picture DR

Posted: 2/2/2006 10:44:52 PM EDT

[#3]

Hopefully they'll make an upper available in .500 Magnum.

Posted: 2/2/2006 11:28:15 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
members.cox.net/drmark/SWAR15.jpg

If Smith does the same QC as Colt ( proper MPC on bolts, proof firing and SPC on components )....by the looks of that pic,I'm in....but if they are just doing the same thing that everyone else is doing ( straight asembly with little to no QC ) then I'm out.

Posted: 2/2/2006 11:35:22 PM EDT

[#5]

I post a couple of gun related message boards and in all that time I dont ever recall reading "Gee, I really wish s&w made an AR15. That would just round out my collection"

This will be the biggest "big news" SHOT show Yawn by far. No one asked, and even fewer will care if the FN ARM, and SIG 556 make an appearance.

S&W had the chance to do something great for gun owners and their market share. If only they would have gone back to the drawing boards like they did with the M&P and produced something new. But noooo.

And once again all eyes will turn toward the europeans for innovation...

Please Robinson just finish the freaking XCR

Posted: 2/3/2006 4:00:50 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Parts gun using the same quality parts could be had for less.

+1

Posted: 2/3/2006 5:12:55 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Parts gun using the same quality parts could be had for less.

+1

Yes, but a PD or LE Dept. doesn't want to piece together parts here and there. They want someone to give them a whole rifle ready to go with manufacturer support to back it up. When it breaks, they'll have someone to call and if necessary drive down there to look at the problem. Also SW, BM, colt have a QA dept that can track down flaws back to the factory if necessary. Try that with a bunch of parts from different manufacturers at different times. You could outfit a whole Dept. on the EE, but who are they going to call when it breaks? Saying "Can you post pics" isn't going to cut it.

Quoted:
I post a couple of gun related message boards and in all that time I dont ever recall reading "Gee, I really wish s&w made an AR15. That would just round out my collection"

This will be the biggest "big news" SHOT show Yawn by far. No one asked, and even fewer will care if the FN ARM, and SIG 556 make an appearance.

S&W had the chance to do something great for gun owners and their market share. If only they would have gone back to the drawing boards like they did with the M&P and produced something new. But noooo.

And once again all eyes will turn toward the europeans for innovation...

Please Robinson just finish the freaking XCR

SW is going after the LE market. Why? because almost every PD is ditching shotguns and going to ARs. No dept is going to adpot an unproven (this excludes the SIG) design, when hundeds of big time PDs are moving to the AR which has had 40 years to prove its design. All the alternatives are much more expensive as well.

Posted: 2/3/2006 5:48:36 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
members.cox.net/drmark/SWAR15.jpg

Pretty sure that was shown to be a photoshop.

Posted: 2/3/2006 6:03:30 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
members.cox.net/drmark/SWAR15.jpg

Pretty sure that was shown to be a photoshop.

I wouldn't argue either way. I don't even remember where I got it.

With all the gun board discussions and press releases, I saved that pic to my hard drive somewhere along the way.

Posted: 2/3/2006 6:45:18 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I post a couple of gun related message boards and in all that time I dont ever recall reading "Gee, I really wish s&w made an AR15. That would just round out my collection"...

I have personally seen it posted here, more than once, over the years. (I may have even posted it myself once...

)

Posted: 2/3/2006 9:28:58 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Parts gun using the same quality parts could be had for less.

+1

Yes, but a PD or LE Dept. doesn't want to piece together parts here and there. They want someone to give them a whole rifle ready to go with manufacturer support to back it up. When it breaks, they'll have someone to call and if necessary drive down there to look at the problem. Also SW, BM, colt have a QA dept that can track down flaws back to the factory if necessary. Try that with a bunch of parts from different manufacturers at different times. You could outfit a whole Dept. on the EE, but who are they going to call when it breaks? Saying "Can you post pics" isn't going to cut it.

To be perfectly honest, the question at hand was whether or not I would buy one. Not if the local PD would.

I listed MY reason for ME not buying one.

WIZZO

Posted: 2/3/2006 9:32:47 AM EDT

[#12]

BTW, I jst got the new Guns & Ammo on the mail yesterday and this is on the cover.

They have some decent pics inside. The standard one (as shown above) got a 1.88" group at 200yds with Cor-Bon 55gr ammo.

The Tactical version comes equipped with Troy flip up sites front and rear and a Troy FF rail. The rail is of the mid-length variety, but the barrel is a 1/9 twist chrome-lined M4 barrel.

WIZZO

Posted: 2/3/2006 9:34:02 AM EDT

[#13]

how about: "SW is a great brand overall, but thier AR line is just too damn much for too damn little"?

Posted: 2/3/2006 9:46:44 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
BTW, I jst got the new Guns & Ammo on the mail yesterday and this is on the cover.

They have some decent pics inside. The standard one (as shown above) got a 1.88" group at 200yds with Cor-Bon 55gr ammo.

The Tactical version comes equipped with Troy flip up sites front and rear and a Troy FF rail. The rail is of the mid-length variety, but the barrel is a 1/9 twist chrome-lined M4 barrel.

WIZZO

THanks for the heads up will check it out.

Posted: 2/3/2006 9:49:35 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
how about: "SW is a great brand overall, but thier AR line is just too damn much for too damn little"?

Though the same could be said about Wilson Combat and Les Baer.

I suppose it's a niche market, like the Cadillac Escalade. I would never buy one of those overpriced sleds, but there seem to be plenty on the road.

Might be worth it to some if the Customer service is all that.

Posted: 2/3/2006 10:53:59 AM EDT

[#16]

Took some pics.

The author is suposedly in IL and took the rifles out for a 4500rd test beck in December when it got cold out (something I can attest to) and he said he tested 38 different loadings through the 2 rifles with no stoppages.

WIZZO

Posted: 2/5/2006 12:41:59 PM EDT

[#17]

These new smiths have been shipped from a distributor and should be arriving at dealers on 6 Feb 06, good luck getting yours.

Posted: 2/5/2006 1:32:02 PM EDT

[#18]

I'll stick with my sucky Colts. No thanks.

Posted: 2/5/2006 2:25:46 PM EDT

[#19]

From my experience with their 9mm. and .45 pistols from the late 1990's - the only way I'd own one was if they were giving them away.

Posted: 2/5/2006 3:36:25 PM EDT

[#20]

Looks like they just stamped a gaudy "M&P" on everything, including the Troy sights.
Was that really necessary? The M&P doesn't appear to be rollmarked or engraved, looks a lot like white paint.

I was hoping they would put out something that had a finish more like this:

Now THAT I would buy. But this doesn't look like a Smith, just looks like another clone.

Oh well. The more the merrier.

Posted: 2/5/2006 3:53:30 PM EDT

[#21]

If I can't pick one up for less than I can build one for, then I'm not interested.

Posted: 2/5/2006 4:03:21 PM EDT

[#22]

I'm suprised they're not going with some kinda gas piston system wiht this. I'd think the market for the standard ARs is already saturated so it seems like they'd wnat to go off and try to hit the untapped section of the market....

I mean yea I've heard alot of good stuff about POF but I don't know who they are, I don't think most other people know either... Now a name like Smith or Colt or something like that would have a huge advantage with a new product like that..

Posted: 2/5/2006 4:22:11 PM EDT

[#23]

I think that like Colt the S&W name will sell alot of these rifles and they will retain that value better than some of the "other" names.

Posted: 2/5/2006 4:29:43 PM EDT

[#24]

Before I would consider buying another smith product, they really need to re-evaluate who they want to market their weapons to. I refuse to support companies that put locks on their weapons to please money hungry anti-gun attorneys. I feel the same way about the now defunct Winchester rifles. I would have bought several model 94s if they hadn't integrated locks and safeties into the receiver. If the public needs those gadgets to product themselves, so be it, but also provide models to those people who understand the fundamentals of gun safety and don't need frame mounted locks. Sorry for the rant, but wtf.

Posted: 2/5/2006 4:41:38 PM EDT

[#25]

They don't have m4 feedramps or a 1/7 twist barrel either

For what it costs and what it has on it I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot poll.

Posted: 2/5/2006 4:48:37 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Before I would consider buying another smith product, they really need to re-evaluate who they want to market their weapons to. I refuse to support companies that put locks on their weapons to please money hungry anti-gun attorneys. I feel the same way about the now defunct Winchester rifles. I would have bought several model 94s if they hadn't integrated locks and safeties into the receiver. If the public needs those gadgets to product themselves, so be it, but also provide models to those people who understand the fundamentals of gun safety and don't need frame mounted locks. Sorry for the rant, but wtf.

+1

Safety is between your ears, not your hands

Posted: 2/5/2006 5:46:19 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
They don't have m4 feedramps or a 1/7 twist barrel either

For what it costs and what it has on it I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot poll.

But the tactical model has military & police on the free float rail that should make it worth 1700
to some

Posted: 2/5/2006 6:09:35 PM EDT

[#28]

The price on these guns are as follows base model 875.00 - 900.00 while the tac model T is about 1150.00 - 1200.00, that doesn't seem unreasonable as people were paying 1500.00 for M-4's not long ago.

Posted: 2/5/2006 6:13:20 PM EDT

[#29]

I voted probably not.

Not because I don't like S&W, I just have others I would buy first.

Posted: 2/5/2006 6:47:44 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Looks like they just stamped a gaudy "M&P" on everything, including the Troy sights.
Was that really necessary? The M&P doesn't appear to be rollmarked or engraved, looks a lot like white paint.

The article says it's laser engraved.

WIZZO

Posted: 2/6/2006 2:35:10 PM EDT

[#31]

I can hardy wait to see how ridiculous the price is for one.

Posted: 2/6/2006 2:48:43 PM EDT

[#32]

I was excited about the possibility of obtaining a stripped lower for a build, but that M&P logo looks like shit! I'd rather have a Colt or RRA.

Posted: 2/6/2006 3:17:58 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
I vote probably not but it has nothing to do with "never liked S&W products".

I think I know why and I agree if it is.

Posted: 2/6/2006 3:18:00 PM EDT

[#34]

MSRP IS NOT actual cost. Keep in mind Bushmaster sells the Modular Carbine with a MSRP higher then that of the MP15T and uses parts that are not even compareable to Troy's.

I won't be buying one, but to make it a big enough deal you have to shit on it is ridiculous. There's enough money in parts there to justify that MSRP, and I welcome S&W so long as they kept the CMT quality.

Posted: 2/6/2006 3:23:07 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Where they intend to position this weapon so it doesnt get ignored between a Colt/RRA/Bushy sandwhich is beyond me.

S&W would have been better off licensing an FNC, an updated Stoner 63, or a real AR18 (WTF ARMALITE!!!), or something to assure an untapped market with little to no competition.

Hell, they should have licensed the XCR even. Anything other than a saturated market

An AR18 would be full auto, so that idea is DOA. The AR180B is a nice little rifle.

Posted: 2/6/2006 3:44:21 PM EDT

[#36]

S&W AR will interesting to see. However I never liked S&W autos. Like Ruger their revolvers are OK, but I prefer autos.

Anyhow after S&W made a deal with the devil. I said I would never suport them. I DO NOT CARE IF THEY HAVE BEEN BOUGHT BY SOMEONE ELSE. As far as I see it they gave money to the old S&W owners. After S&W gave in to suport the fight against this great Nations Freedom. The new company carries that dirty name. GUILTY by association. May the name S&W be Damned Damned Damned!

S&W = The Unforgiven

Posted: 2/7/2006 2:01:54 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
S&W AR will interesting to see. However I never liked S&W autos. Like Ruger their revolvers are OK, but I prefer autos.

Anyhow after S&W made a deal with the devil. I said I would never suport them. I DO NOT CARE IF THEY HAVE BEEN BOUGHT BY SOMEONE ELSE. As far as I see it they gave money to the old S&W owners. After S&W gave in to suport the fight against this great Nations Freedom. The new company carries that dirty name. GUILTY by association. May the name S&W be Damned Damned Damned!

S&W = The Unforgiven

Still unforgiven, the new owner, Safety Lock has turned Smith and Wesson's product line into "romper room safe" crap. I saw a "nice" Model 648, 22 magnum, six shooter a few weeks ago and when I turned it over it had this shitty safety lock on the right side above the cylinder latch...I nearly threw it back at the sales dude.

Fuck anything by smith after the "deal" or the "new purchase"...upon further reflection I just know they are gonna have "safety crap" all over the fuckin' thing.

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:41:16 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they just stamped a gaudy "M&P" on everything, including the Troy sights.
Was that really necessary? The M&P doesn't appear to be rollmarked or engraved, looks a lot like white paint.

The article says it's laser engraved.

WIZZO

Then that is good quality work. Still a bit of marketing overkill IMO. But at least nicely done.

Posted: 2/7/2006 5:44:16 AM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Still unforgiven, the new owner, Safety Lock has turned Smith and Wesson's product line into "romper room safe" crap. I saw a "nice" Model 648, 22 magnum, six shooter a few weeks ago and when I turned it over it had this shitty safety lock on the right side above the cylinder latch...I nearly threw it back at the sales dude.

Fuck anything by smith after the "deal" or the "new purchase"...upon further reflection I just know they are gonna have "safety crap" all over the fuckin' thing.

Agreed, I hate the safety lock crap too. But how could you make that work on an AR15? Keylock on the safety switch?

When will people learn safety locks are no substitute for education and safe gun handling skills.

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:00:23 AM EDT

[#40]

Not a bloody chance in hell. If'n I'm gonna pay that much for an AR I can think of several better options IMHO.

Seems like more and more companies are jumping on the AR bandwagon. How come S&W or one of the other big name companies isn't making "their version" of AK's?

Posted: 2/7/2006 6:26:19 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Not a bloody chance in hell. If'n I'm gonna pay that much for an AR I can think of several better options IMHO.

Seems like more and more companies are jumping on the AR bandwagon. How come S&W or one of the other big name companies isn't making "their version" of AK's?

Whether you like AK variants or not, they are the stereotypical "bad guy" gun as portrayed by the media and popular culture. I like AK variants, when well made and especially the 5.45x39 variants are accurate and reliable, but few US law enforcement agencies are going to use them, and that's the market many AR15 variant manufacturers hope to achieve when they grow up.

Posted: 2/9/2006 9:06:05 AM EDT

[#42]

Here's the technical specs from the website:
Model: M&P15T
Caliber: 5.56 mm NATO / .233
Action: Gas Operated Semi Automatic
Capacity: 30 Rounds, 5.56 mm or .223
Overall Length: 35" Extended / 32" Compacted
Stock: 6-Position Telescopic
Forend: 4-Sided, 10" Free-Float Modular Rail Forend (MRF)
Sight Length: 15"
Barrel Length: 16"
Barrel Twist: 1 in 9"
Weight (No Mag): 6.85 lbs.
Trigger Pull: 7 lbs. (approx.)
Upper/Lower Material: 7075 T6 Aluminum
Barrel Material: 4140 Steel
Chromed Components: Barrel Bore, Gas Key, Bolt Carrier
Receiver and Barrel Finish: Hard Coat Black Anodized
Front Sight: Adjustable, Folding Battle Sight
Rear Sight: Adjustable, Folding Battle Sight
I just looked at one at my local gunstore, it was a beautiful rifle, selling for $1200.00.(It's mine now)

Posted: 2/9/2006 9:55:38 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Here's the technical specs from the website:
Model: M&P15T
Caliber: 5.56 mm NATO / .233
Action: Gas Operated Semi Automatic
Capacity: 30 Rounds, 5.56 mm or .223
Overall Length: 35" Extended / 32" Compacted
Stock: 6-Position Telescopic
Forend: 4-Sided, 10" Free-Float Modular Rail Forend (MRF)
Sight Length: 15"
Barrel Length: 16"
Barrel Twist: 1 in 9"
Weight (No Mag): 6.85 lbs.
Trigger Pull: 7 lbs. (approx.)
Upper/Lower Material: 7075 T6 Aluminum
Barrel Material: 4140 Steel
Chromed Components: Barrel Bore, Gas Key, Bolt Carrier
Receiver and Barrel Finish: Hard Coat Black Anodized
Front Sight: Adjustable, Folding Battle Sight
Rear Sight: Adjustable, Folding Battle Sight
I just looked at one at my local gunstore, it was a beautiful rifle, selling for $1200.00.(It's mine now)

If you consider the Troy front and rear battle sights included can retail for over $200, plus the chrome carrier and MRF, not that bad a price.

When you take delivery, can you take a closeup pic of the receiver markings for my rollmark thread?(if it's not too much trouble)

Posted: 2/9/2006 10:16:34 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Whether you like AK variants or not, they are the stereotypical "bad guy" gun as portrayed by the media and popular culture. I like AK variants, when well made and especially the 5.45x39 variants are accurate and reliable, but few US law enforcement agencies are going to use them, and that's the market many AR15 variant manufacturers hope to achieve when they grow up.

Spot on.

Posted: 2/9/2006 10:24:13 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
I vote probably not but it has nothing to do with "never liked S&W products".

+1

Why buy a S&W Stag AR for a bloated price?

Posted: 2/9/2006 10:28:27 AM EDT

[#46]

Anyhow after S&W made a deal with the devil. I said I would never suport them. I DO NOT CARE IF THEY HAVE BEEN BOUGHT BY SOMEONE ELSE. As far as I see it they gave money to the old S&W owners. After S&W gave in to suport the fight against this great Nations Freedom. The new company carries that dirty name. GUILTY by association. May the name S&W be Damned Damned Damned!

Yikes!!! I hope I never piss on his campfire!

The name is inert. It is neither guilty or innocent.
The companies previous owners and management were to blame, not the name or the workers.
I am GLAD they are owned by an American company now.
The little locks don't bother me too much, I just may use it if I had one.
I don't want to HAVE to have one due to legislation.

I would buy one, it may add a tiny bit of normalicy to the AR15 image and it looks to me like a very well made rifle at an attractive price. That's about all I ask of someone.

Bill

Posted: 2/9/2006 1:59:00 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Not a bloody chance in hell. If'n I'm gonna pay that much for an AR I can think of several better options IMHO.

Seems like more and more companies are jumping on the AR bandwagon. How come S&W or one of the other big name companies isn't making "their version" of AK's?

Whether you like AK variants or not, they are the stereotypical "bad guy" gun as portrayed by the media and popular culture. I like AK variants, when well made and especially the 5.45x39 variants are accurate and reliable, but few US law enforcement agencies are going to use them, and that's the market many AR15 variant manufacturers hope to achieve when they grow up.

It wasn't so much a dig on AK's as just the fact that every US gun manufacturer (and some others... [cough]HK[/cough] want to reinvent the wheel.

How about, if they're going to reinvent something, do it on something not US maker has done to date... successfully anyway.

Yeah, HK is "improving" on the M4, but those improvements have been in existence for a while and if I'm not mistake it was part of the original Stoner rifle.

Posted: 2/9/2006 3:40:34 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Not a bloody chance in hell. If'n I'm gonna pay that much for an AR I can think of several better options IMHO.

Seems like more and more companies are jumping on the AR bandwagon. How come S&W or one of the other big name companies isn't making "their version" of AK's?

Whether you like AK variants or not, they are the stereotypical "bad guy" gun as portrayed by the media and popular culture. I like AK variants, when well made and especially the 5.45x39 variants are accurate and reliable, but few US law enforcement agencies are going to use them, and that's the market many AR15 variant manufacturers hope to achieve when they grow up.

It wasn't so much a dig on AK's as just the fact that every US gun manufacturer (and some others... [cough]HK[/cough] want to reinvent the wheel.

How about, if they're going to reinvent something, do it on something not US maker has done to date... successfully anyway.

Yeah, HK is "improving" on the M4, but those improvements have been in existence for a while and if I'm not mistake it was part of the original Stoner rifle.

ONe could argue that IMI "reinvented" the AK with the Galil.

Posted: 2/13/2006 8:21:01 AM EDT

[#49]

Photos posted in their Shot Show thread by TalonArms.
Thanks!
They have said they are now carrying the S&W M&P15 line, and they are excellent quality.
I have seen the price on their website and it is quite reasonable IMO considering what you get with this and the S&W always great lifetime warranty. I have never had them fail to satisfy on any warranty issue.

Hmmm now I may have to take a serious look at these...