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Posted: 1/30/2006 9:16:11 PM EDT
I am thinking about getting a SBR and I really need to know what the best length you guys advise? I am going to go with a POF 415 upper so my choices are their 9.25 or their 11.5. If I go with the 9.25 I will get the Krink FH installed and I also might get it installed on the 11.5 if it would be worth it. I love the way POF's 415 9.25 looks but don't want my accuracy to go downhill as well. Sorry about all of the questions, just need some good advise. Thanks & Look forward to reading your replies...
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:20:16 PM EDT

What is considered the best SBR Length?


14.5"
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:23:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 9:23:46 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
I like 10.25" myself, but I think the ideal length is probably 11.5"


Don't forget to check over in the Full Auto forum - lots of threads on SBRs over there.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:23:54 PM EDT
Leitner-Wise or bust!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:35:36 PM EDT
11.5"
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:40:20 PM EDT
If I go with the 11.5" should I still get a Krink FH installed? I personally like the way they look but don't know if they are really needed at that length...Will I see a significant difference with it installed as opposed to with out? Thanks.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 9:48:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Faust245:
If I go with the 11.5" should I still get a Krink FH installed? I personally like the way they look but don't know if they are really needed at that length...Will I see a significant difference with it installed as opposed to with out? Thanks.



They are needed more at that length than on something longer. Shorter = bigger flash and louder perceived "bang". Those aren't requirements to using a KFH; if you like them, use them
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:12:03 PM EDT
You are really talking about personal preference here. For me I felt that if I was going to pay the damned tax stamp I wanted it short!

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:37:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 10:41:36 PM EDT by Variablebinary]
I would say 11.5 is the best overall SBR length, but I think PDW's are a civilians.



Originally Posted By jtw2:
You are really talking about personal preference here. For me I felt that if I was going to pay the damned tax stamp I wanted it short!
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=37483
photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=37484



Who is your barrel and forend by? I'm trying to decied which company should do my PDW parts while my Form 1 is in the process
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:38:03 PM EDT
Have you not considered a REAL suppressor instead of the Krink?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:56:49 PM EDT
believe it or not that's a model 1 sales 7.5" pistol upper and has run 100% right from the start. No tweaking needed. It's been a great upper. the lower is a standard RRA stripped lower that I built up with a RRA parts kit.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:04:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DevL:
Have you not considered a REAL suppressor instead of the Krink?



whats wrong with the krink type?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:24:45 AM EDT
You still need hearing protection.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:29:17 AM EDT
I think the 11.5" AR is the way to go. That's because, I have one.

<<<<<<<<<<<---------------------------

___________________________


Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:06:10 AM EDT
12.5 becuase with the LW piston it goes 9fps FASTER than a M4.......

Simon
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:18:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Have you not considered a REAL suppressor instead of the Krink?



whats wrong with the krink type?



It's f%*king ugly

I know I know, function before form...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:39:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 2:40:37 AM EDT by STG77]

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Have you not considered a REAL suppressor instead of the Krink?



whats wrong with the krink type?





Nothing, except it's not a sound suppressor, and it's dumb to get a Krink instead of a sound suppressor just because they happen to be the flavor of the month on arfcom.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:43:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Variablebinary:

Originally Posted By AROKIE:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Have you not considered a REAL suppressor instead of the Krink?



whats wrong with the krink type?



It's f%*king ugly

I know I know, function before form...




and HEAVY!

My vote would be 11.5, since that is the length that Colt stops (with very rare exception) and shorter bbls have higher number of reliability issues.

There are many SBR's less than 11.5 that are running fine

But when I read the 10.5's need tweaking to run correctly, it raises issues in my mind
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 2:53:57 AM EDT
3inches in 22 lr. Just enough to thread on a can.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:27:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 3:42:12 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By DevL:
Have you not considered a REAL suppressor instead of the Krink?



Why do you constantly waste our time with this?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:11:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:20:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:

What is considered the best SBR Length?


14.5"



+1
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 4:33:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Have you not considered a REAL suppressor instead of the Krink?



Why do you constantly waste our time with this?



His father was killed by a KFH with 6 fingers on it's right hand.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:07:19 AM EDT



i like my 11.5's. you can use normal length handguards, with a normal FSB, be completely reliable (i've heard of a LOT of issues with the 10.5's and smaller), and still be small enough to manuver just about anywhere.

plus, IIRC, some suppressor companies will not warranty their products if used on guns shorter than 11.5".


Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:25:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bolster:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By DevL:
Have you not considered a REAL suppressor instead of the Krink?



Why do you constantly waste our time with this?



His father was killed by a KFH with 6 fingers on it's right hand.



It might help his credibility if he HAD absolutely any experience with the Krink.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:41:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
It might help his credibility if he HAD absolutely any experience with the Krink.




OK, what about his post do you disagree with? Do you honestly think there is any reason to use a KFH when you can use a can instead?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:58:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 7:01:05 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
It might help his credibility if he HAD absolutely any experience with the Krink.




OK, what about his post do you disagree with? Do you honestly think there is any reason to use a KFH when you can use a can instead?



Should I start a list?

(1.) Length - Why add the length? It kind of defeats the purpose of a SBR, and takes away all of it's advantages. A Krink added to a 10.5" is only 1 1/4" longer than a 11.5". It just makes sense.

(2.) NFA item hassle - I waited eight months for my SBR, plus it's $200 added to the cost of the suppressor.

(3.) Cost- $115 (Krink) verses $600-$1200 (Top quality suppressor) - What more do I need to say?

(4.) Lack of performance gain - A set of Peltors seems a lot cheaper. Unless you are shooting very expensive subsonic ammo. Contrary to what you see in the movies it's not just a tiny pop when shooting standard ammo. It sounds exactly like a gun being fired.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:06:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
It might help his credibility if he HAD absolutely any experience with the Krink.




OK, what about his post do you disagree with? Do you honestly think there is any reason to use a KFH when you can use a can instead?



Is there any reason to think that one is a substitute for the other? One reduces the amount of perceived noise for the shooter in some circumstances and keeps overall length to a relative minimum, and the other significantly reduces the report from the barrel but adds significant length to the gun. I don't see why anyone considering one would remotely consider them competitors as they are not intended to do the same thing, nor marketed as such IMHO.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:06:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:25:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bolster:

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
It might help his credibility if he HAD absolutely any experience with the Krink.




OK, what about his post do you disagree with? Do you honestly think there is any reason to use a KFH when you can use a can instead?



Is there any reason to think that one is a substitute for the other? One reduces the amount of perceived noise for the shooter in some circumstances and keeps overall length to a relative minimum, and the other significantly reduces the report from the barrel but adds significant length to the gun. I don't see why anyone considering one would remotely consider them competitors as they are not intended to do the same thing, nor marketed as such IMHO.



+1

I could not agree more.

It's seems only DevL considers them to be competitors.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:54:35 AM EDT

11.5"... mainly because Gemtech doesn't warranty my M4-96D on shorter bbls.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:02:18 AM EDT
Not to threadjack, but if 11.5 or 10.5, what is better twist rate 1:7 or 1:9. Assume range =55gr, HD = something good like 68gr or heavier?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:47:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TriggerFish:
i30.photobucket.com/albums/c314/Z06M16A1/Comm115.jpg
11.5"... mainly because Gemtech doesn't warranty my M4-96D on shorter bbls.hr


TriggerFish,
Have you ever thought about pounding out that front sling swivel? Might stop that anoying rattle. It seems it is no longer in use with your single point sling attachment on the buffer tube...Just a thought.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 11:17:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 11:21:57 AM EDT by TriggerFish]

Originally Posted By tbag396:TriggerFish,
Have you ever thought about pounding out that front sling swivel? Might stop that anoying rattle. It seems it is no longer in use with your single point sling attachment on the buffer tube...Just a thought.


Funny you should mention that... I had just put the Surefire on the KAC rail for the photo today and thought the same thing. I have a spare M4 barrel side mount sling swivel in the big-box-o-stuff that I will put on the CMMG upper 2day. I already took off the sling ring on the Colt buttstock & added the GG&G sling "thingy" at the back of the receiver, so the front side-mount is a no-brainer!
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 11:43:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:14:15 PM EDT
Thanks Guys, 11.5" it is. I really appreciate all the help. Sometimes you just need that little push! Thanks again.

On a side note, I'm not sure if it was really answered but will a Krink FH be a good idea at this length or is it not really needed on 11" + barrels. Just want to make sure I don't waste any money on this build. Thanks again. -Joe
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:18:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Faust245:
On a side note, I'm not sure if it was really answered but will a Krink FH be a good idea at this length or is it not really needed on 11" + barrels. Just want to make sure I don't waste any money on this build. Thanks again. -Joe



It would have the exact same benefits.

1" of barrel is not a cure all to SBR AR problems.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:30:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Faust245:

On a side note, I'm not sure if it was really answered but will a Krink FH be a good idea at this length or is it not really needed on 11" + barrels. Just want to make sure I don't waste any money on this build. Thanks again. -Joe




For what it's worth, I switched the stock A2 FH on my 10" SBR out for a Phantom, and there was a very noticable reduction in flash.

I'm sure a Krink might be even better, but the Phantom is a lot smaller, shorter and cheaper than a Krink (cost about $25 I believe).

Somewhere around here there is a thread with pictures of various flash hiders and their performance, and I think a Phantom for barrels 10" and longer is perfectly fine.

Just my opinion.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:38:48 PM EDT
Again the answer is ALL


I have a 11.5 pending approval.

I want a 10.02 for a retro.
I will get a 14.5 LE6921 soon.

I want a shorty for a silenced pisto cal.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:10:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
It might help his credibility if he HAD absolutely any experience with the Krink.




OK, what about his post do you disagree with? Do you honestly think there is any reason to use a KFH when you can use a can instead?



Should I start a list?

(1.) Length - Why add the length? It kind of defeats the purpose of a SBR, and takes away all of it's advantages. A Krink added to a 10.5" is only 1 1/4" longer than a 11.5". It just makes sense.

(2.) NFA item hassle - I waited eight months for my SBR, plus it's $200 added to the cost of the suppressor.

(3.) Cost- $115 (Krink) verses $600-$1200 (Top quality suppressor) - What more do I need to say?

(4.) Lack of performance gain - A set of Peltors seems a lot cheaper. Unless you are shooting very expensive subsonic ammo. Contrary to what you see in the movies it's not just a tiny pop when shooting standard ammo. It sounds exactly like a gun being fired.




Thanks to Bigbore, I was fortunate enough to fire an SBR with suppressor two weekends ago. I'm very hearing paranoid, so I wore my Peltors. I did stand nearby without hearing protection when he and another buddy fired it. It does sound like a rifle being fired, but more along the lines of a .22. I would say that a suppressor does significantly reduce the sound signature.

BTW, with his setup, you can use a Krink when the suppressor isn't being used. It's on my shopping list.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:35:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stony275:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:
It might help his credibility if he HAD absolutely any experience with the Krink.




OK, what about his post do you disagree with? Do you honestly think there is any reason to use a KFH when you can use a can instead?



Should I start a list?

(1.) Length - Why add the length? It kind of defeats the purpose of a SBR, and takes away all of it's advantages. A Krink added to a 10.5" is only 1 1/4" longer than a 11.5". It just makes sense.

(2.) NFA item hassle - I waited eight months for my SBR, plus it's $200 added to the cost of the suppressor.

(3.) Cost- $115 (Krink) verses $600-$1200 (Top quality suppressor) - What more do I need to say?

(4.) Lack of performance gain - A set of Peltors seems a lot cheaper. Unless you are shooting very expensive subsonic ammo. Contrary to what you see in the movies it's not just a tiny pop when shooting standard ammo. It sounds exactly like a gun being fired.




Thanks to Bigbore, I was fortunate enough to fire an SBR with suppressor two weekends ago. I'm very hearing paranoid, so I wore my Peltors. I did stand nearby without hearing protection when he and another buddy fired it. It does sound like a rifle being fired, but more along the lines of a .22. I would say that a suppressor does significantly reduce the sound signature.

BTW, with his setup, you can use a Krink when the suppressor isn't being used. It's on my shopping list.



Thanks Stony, I thought that was you in Bigbore's pictures.

I totally agree that a suppressor significantly reduces the sound signature; just not to the degree some on ARFCOM (Not you or Bigbore) would lead us to believe. The .22 analogy seems about perfect to me.

Keep safe Stony.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:33:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:18:59 PM EDT
LMT 10.5" gets my vote.

I do not like the "Krink" for several reasons.
1. It's ugly
2. Too Heavy
3. Too big
4. Not a true FH
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:25:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By stony275:
Thanks to Bigbore, I was fortunate enough to fire an SBR with suppressor two weekends ago. I'm very hearing paranoid, so I wore my Peltors. I did stand nearby without hearing protection when he and another buddy fired it. It does sound like a rifle being fired, but more along the lines of a .22. I would say that a suppressor does significantly reduce the sound signature.

BTW, with his setup, you can use a Krink when the suppressor isn't being used. It's on my shopping list.



It it was that day with Stony that inspired the modification to my extended gas system SBR.
www.adcofirearms.com/images/115_ext_fsb.jpg

I listened to his comments about the balance and feel of my SBR, and what he liked about his Carbine.
With this set up, Stony can run the DD 12.0 FSP that he likes, with an 11.5" barrel and a QD suppressor and have the balance, function and ergonomics of a carbine with the can attached, and compactness of an SBR, while keeping the ergonomics hes used to. Best of both worlds
In his line of work, where and SBR is used in vehicles, leave teh can off, when you get out, snap it on.
I know if I built that upper using a RRA UTE2 receiver, it would be his dream SBR






As I said that day, I'm going to have to spend an extra month in Iraq just to pay for the goodies I'm going to be buying from you.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 6:29:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By S-1:
LMT 10.5" gets my vote.

I do not like the "Krink" for several reasons.
1. It's ugly
2. Too Heavy
3. Too big
4. Not a true FH



I suggest you stop listening to the ARFCOM "Experts" who post their opinion on products they have never seen and try one for yourself. I firmly believe you will see the light so to speak. I also could not care less what anything looks like (Within Reason), just as long as it performs. I'm also a little baffled by your "Not a true FH" comment. What does that mean?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 7:50:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By S-1:
LMT 10.5" gets my vote.

I do not like the "Krink" for several reasons.
1. It's ugly
2. Too Heavy
3. Too big
4. Not a true FH maybe because it's not a Flash Hider at all. It wasn't designed to tame flash- just perceived noise.



I vote 14.5"

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:11:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 8:40:10 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By JosephR:
4. Not a true FH maybe because it's not a Flash Hider at all. It wasn't designed to tame flash- just perceived noise.





I'm sorry, but listening to the ARFCOM "Experts" has given you some incorrect information. The Noveske Krink is at least the equal to a standard A2 in regards to flash suppression. Plus the Krink has all it’s other advantages.

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:45:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By S-1:
LMT 10.5" gets my vote.

I do not like the "Krink" for several reasons.
1. It's ugly
2. Too Heavy
3. Too big
4. Not a true FH



I suggest you stop listening to the ARFCOM "Experts" who post their opinion on products they have never seen and try one for yourself. I firmly believe you will see the light so to speak. I also could not care less what anything looks like (Within Reason), just as long as it performs. I'm also a little baffled by your "Not a true FH" comment. What does that mean?



I'm just not fan of the Krink. If you like yours that's great. If I wanted to change the standard A2 FS on my LMT, I'd probably put on a Phantom that I have laying around.
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 8:51:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By JosephR:
4. Not a true FH maybe because it's not a Flash Hider at all. It wasn't designed to tame flash- just perceived noise.





I'm sorry, but listening to the ARFCOM "Experts" has given you some incorrect information. The Noveske Krink is at least the equal to a standard A2 in regards to flash suppression. Plus the Krink has all it’s other advantages.




have a picture? it's just hard to believe but seeing is believing!
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 9:00:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2006 9:09:43 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 2/1/2006 9:03:20 AM EDT
i just looked on silencertests.com but he hadn't used one yet.

rsilvers takes great photos. there's a ton of detail even in the ones where there are huge fireballs.

really nice photography.

maybe somoene needs to send him one.

i'd like to see.
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