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Posted: 1/29/2006 8:54:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/29/2006 9:00:53 PM EDT by ALPHAGHOST]

the wolf fed almost 100 rnds--no problems

but then when i tried some Winchester 5.56 and a few Federal XM193s, the first shot would fire, but would not reload the next round

they would have a failure to extract and the next round would jam up behind the un-extracted spend casing

its a lightweight carbine w/ 16in bbl--i had added an extractor O-ring before this shoot

its not the mags--they (mix of 30rnd USGI, Brit steel, and banned mags) all work in my bushy and RRA build

i took it out when i got home and inspected the parts (extractor and bolt assembly)--everything looks a little work, but ok
h/w, i noticed that the bolt fits kinda tight in the carrier (expecially w/ the O-ring)--so i took off the O-ring, and its still a tad rough
i think that i might replace the Extractor Spring just in case...or should i replace the extractor --or both?

any other ideas?

anyone else have this problem ( b/c i noticed that most folks have had problems w/ wolf and not other ammo)?
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:13:22 PM EDT
Maybe Wolf isn't as crappy as some make it out to be

Sorry, I can't be of much help.

WIZZO
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:17:28 PM EDT
IBT posts calling you a liar, saying wolf is terrible.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:34:04 PM EDT
have you hugged your wolf today?

Link Posted: 1/29/2006 10:10:19 PM EDT
i forgot to mention: i tried my bushy's B/BCG and this upper worked fine, so its not the buffer area, but more than likely the original B/BCG (extractor/spring ) that is the problem

Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:56:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 7:02:53 AM EDT by Bartholomew_Roberts]
Here is my SWAG... The problem is the steel/polymer case of the Wolf doesn't expand to seal the chamber the same way a brass case does. As a result, you are getting carbon buildup on the chamber walls. Since the Wolf doesn't expand as much and is operating at lower pressures, it runs fine.

However, once you throw in the brass cased ammo, you have two problems - 5.56mm pressures (instead of .223) and a brass case that expands more than steel. When you fire this round, it tries to expand more in the now slightly smaller (due to carbon buildup) chamber. Due to the higher pressure and the smaller space, the brass sticks longer than it normally would and your bolt is using up all of its energy just trying to pull the stuck case out of the chamber - as a result it fails to extract fully or eject.

This is probably being helped along by a bolt and bolt carrier group that is marginal on lubrication.

If I did guess the problem correctly, then there are a couple of solutions:

1) Clean the chamber very, very thoroughly with a good cleaner like Carbon Cutter or somethinhg especially designed for baked on, tough carbon deposits like those found on the tail of the bolt. Also use a chamber brush and a fixed (non turning) cleaning rod.

2) Always fire Wolf ammo last when using a mix of brass cased 5.56 ammo and Wolf.

3) Make sure your AR15 is properly lubed. You can often make an AR15 that won't function work by just adding lube until the bolt and bolt carrier are drenched in it. I'm not saying it is the optimum solution and it will attract dust and other gunk eventually; but if you need a quick fix to keep it running, that will work a lot of times (and for quite a few different problems even).


i forgot to mention: i tried my bushy's B/BCG and this upper worked fine, so its not the buffer area, but more than likely the original B/BCG (extractor/spring ) that is the problem


Have you compared the headspace on the rifle with each bolt? Could be that one bolt has a different enough headspace to allow pressures to stay lower and so the gun continues to function. It could also be that I am completely hosed on this line of thinking and there is another problem entirely; but testing my theory should be pretty simple... just clean the chamber and try the brass 5.56 ammo first and see if the problems continue.

But I am betting money you have a pressure problem in the chamber area... the fact that it works with underpowered Wolf ammo; but doesn't work with 5.56mm pressure ammo screams it out. Plus the symptoms you are describing are exactly what happens when you have too much pressure in the chamber of an AR15.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 7:44:04 AM EDT
First off follow B_R's excellent advice first.

If that doesn't work, another issue may be the gas port was drilled too large on that barrel. That would account for it working fine with the low pressure Wolf, but it shows signs of 'overfunction' with standard pressure ammo.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:01:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 8:04:50 AM EDT by Ekie]
I would bet Forest got it right. The Carbine is over gassed, meaning the bolt velocity is too high while using ammo with the correct gas pressure curve. The bolt is opening so violently that it drops the empty. Got a 14.5" barrel like that myself, runs better on out of spec ammo.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:51:05 AM EDT
Question, what does an extractor o-ring have to do with the bolt fitting tightly in the carrier?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:27:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JackalAR:
Question, what does an extractor o-ring have to do with the bolt fitting tightly in the carrier?



it did not have that much effect, but mixed with the extrator spring loose and a lot of 'junk' in the bolt, it raised the extractor that much more that the fit was too tight in the carrier

will do on the cleaning mr B_Roberts--i'll flush it out tonight and try to check the headspacing ASAP on the bolts...

i will also take mr forest's advice on the gas tube/bbl area--if the gas port is overdrilled, is there anything i can do about it, or am i stuck with shooting .223 ammo?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 12:49:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ALPHAGHOST:
i will also take mr forest's advice on the gas tube/bbl area--if the gas port is overdrilled, is there anything i can do about it, or am i stuck with shooting .223 ammo?



There are 4 possible solutions.

1) If the barrel was purchased new you might be able to return it and get it replaced.

Otherwise:

2) You could try using a PRI Fat-Boy gas tube. The enhanced volume of this gas tube MAY reduce the overfunction enough to operate the rifle w/o problems. Con: This is a non-standard $80 part that might not work. Pro: You could do the change yourself and there are no moving parts when you're done.

3) You could try using an adjustable gas tube (Fulton-Armory sells them). This would allow you to dial back the amount of gas going back to the rifle to get it to operate with 5.56 ammo. Con: Again a non-standard expensive part, which will require you to adjust it with an allen wrench till you find the correct setting. Pro: again it's a simple install and it's almost guaranteed to work if the problem is a too large gas port.

4) Send the upper to Randal at www.AR15barrels.com and have him do is 'gas port work'. Cost will be between $25-$50. Cons: You will be w/o the upper for a couple of weeks Pros: Best cost, and you'll be able to use standard gas tubes. This is the option I'd select if it were my barrel.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 3:40:34 PM EDT
Since you mentioned it works fine with another bolt, I imagine you are right on the edge of function. In that case, you may also be able to get it running by using a heavier buffer and stronger buffer spring. This can delay the cycling of the action long enough to let the pressure drop and the brass shrink away from the chamber walls if you are on the edge of function.

First I'd just try cleaning the chamber well and trying some 5.56mm ammo since that is the cheapest and easiest solution. If that solution works, then you didn't mention what barrel you had; but if it isn't chrome-lined, you may consider whether you want to polish the chamber lightly to give it a little extra room for reliability in that scenario.

Let us know how it turns out...
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:05:17 PM EDT
update:

changed the extractor and spring, added an H-buffer

~100rnds of 5.56 and .223 (mix of federal, wolf, and win)--everything went fine

thanks all
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 4:16:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/18/2006 6:51:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HeavyMetal:
Bad extractor.

Do yourself a favor and throw the one you just replaced in the trash so you don't accidentally use it again.



10-4, thanks
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