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Posted: 1/29/2006 12:03:58 PM EDT
I am building a coyote/target gun, and have decided on a 20" heavy stainless barrel. I have narrowed the actual barrels down to either a White Oak CMP match barrel or a DPMS DCM barrel.

www.dpmsinc.com/10Expand.asp?ProductCode=BL-DCM
www.whiteoakarmament.com/

Which one do you think is the better barrel? I know WOA uses Wilson barrels, and I'm not sure who builds the barrels for DPMS. The WOA will cost me about $50 more, do you think it will be worth it? I am hoping to get 3/4" groups with the gun, and I have had good luck with Wilson barrels on Rock River AR's. Only thinkg is, I have no experience with DPMS barrels.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 12:42:50 PM EDT
I can’t talk about the DPMS barrel (I don’t own one), but I can talk about the WOA SS 1/7 20 inch CMP barrel. I really like mine. It shoots 1/2 moa with the BH 75 grain match, and just a hair over 1/3 moa with the BH 77gr match.
MB
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 1:00:11 PM EDT
Which is the better barrel? For me the WOA is the better barrel because I put 77s and 80s through it. For you, probably the DPMS because the 1x8 twist and throat would handle coyote loads better.

Are you going to use heavier/longer bullets? are you going to use optics? You should pick up the phone and call WOA and ask if they can help build an upper to suit your needs. They probably don't have the DCM barrel in stock right this moment anyhow, because it's the Highpower off season. You could call adco too, they carry 1x8 DCM and varmint profile barrels for $25 more than DPMS.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 3:46:52 PM EDT
I spoke with WOA one day last week, and it was my understanding the CMP barrels were in stock. I plan on shooting 69-77gr bullets, depending on which the gun seems to prefer. I have everything I need right now, except the barrel. I have a flat top upper, free float forend, and shaved gas block ready for what ever barrel I decide on. I even have the B/C group, but I may go ahead and get whoever I order the barrel from to match a bolt to the barrel I buy. I will be using a scope, which I also all ready have. Its just a matter of ordering the barrel and slapping it on my upper.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 4:30:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jason280:
I spoke with WOA one day last week, and it was my understanding the CMP barrels were in stock. I plan on shooting 69-77gr bullets, depending on which the gun seems to prefer. I have everything I need right now, except the barrel. I have a flat top upper, free float forend, and shaved gas block ready for what ever barrel I decide on. I even have the B/C group, but I may go ahead and get whoever I order the barrel from to match a bolt to the barrel I buy. I will be using a scope, which I also all ready have. Its just a matter of ordering the barrel and slapping it on my upper.



If you're shooting 69-77s, the WOA barrel will shoot them both excellently. At 200 yards shooting prone with a sling and irons, I can chew the x-ring out with 69s. (1MOA or ~2.5" at 200 yards) If you have the gas block already, then the barrel only price for the WOA barrel is a dollar less than the DPMS.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 5:51:44 PM EDT
Actually, the price is still around $50 difference. DPMS offers a considerable dealer (FFL) discount, while the WOA discount isn't much. I can get the barrel through my dealer, and he charges me what it costs him.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 8:47:32 PM EDT
WOA CMP barrel is a good barrel. It's Wylde chambered by Frank White of CLE. Holliger & White put thier names on their products and back it with results and service.

DPMS barrel made by who? Chambered by who? A black cat is your assurance of quality?

$50? Who cares. It's your gun, you make your own decisions.

BTW, Holliger does build varmint rigs. Call him up and ask his opinions and put yourself together what you really want. That's what 'smiths are for.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:44:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 4:47:17 AM EDT by kilkritrsnow]
I only know of White Oak from reading ,I know of DPMS first hand,you say WOA is $50 more and has Wilson barrels, well the good news is DPMS, also has Wilson air guage premium barrels and when they run out of stock,they alternate with Lothar Walther premium barrels .DPMS CMP barrels have an extremely tight chamber, the bolt will not fully close on a SAAMI GO guage,I had a super bull in 1in9 twist 24in. and it shot 69gr smk at a100yd, .153 in. group.I now have a 20in. 1in8 twist ,CMP and am loading 77gr smk and have already surpased BlackHills groups in their Mk262Mod1 as they have advertised of .60 at 100yd now the choice is yours.six of one half dozen of another,and $50 bucks in between!,you can call DPMS an spec your gun out your way with all the bells and whistles,if you arent doing it your self! Joe is great over there
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 5:56:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kilkritrsnow:DPMS CMP barrels have an extremely tight chamber, the bolt will not fully close on a SAAMI GO guage,
Which is why they are not used by anyone with any experience in Highpower.

Tight chamber + a little bit of chamber fouling + hot brass = rapid fire alibis.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 1:09:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By kilkritrsnow:DPMS CMP barrels have an extremely tight chamber, the bolt will not fully close on a SAAMI GO guage,
Which is why they are not used by anyone with any experience in Highpower.

Tight chamber + a little bit of chamber fouling + hot brass = rapid fire alibis.



I think even for non-Highpower activities an "extremely tight chamber" is a NOGO for gas guns. Maybe ok just for just plinking, but not for coyotes unless you also brought a shotgun with some #4. And even then, do you really want to resize your brass with a small base die? Full length is bad enough, a necessary evil, but it doesn't seem like a tight chamber is worth all that trouble.

Now, if DPMS could get you a lothar walther barrel with a wylde chamber for $50 less than WOA, that would be a win. Otherwise, you might want to still consider White Oak.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 2:37:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warren-hpf:

Originally Posted By SWO_daddy:

Originally Posted By kilkritrsnow:DPMS CMP barrels have an extremely tight chamber, the bolt will not fully close on a SAAMI GO guage,
Which is why they are not used by anyone with any experience in Highpower.

Tight chamber + a little bit of chamber fouling + hot brass = rapid fire alibis.



I think even for non-Highpower activities an "extremely tight chamber" is a NOGO for gas guns. Maybe ok just for just plinking, but not for coyotes unless you also brought a shotgun with some #4. And even then, do you really want to resize your brass with a small base die? Full length is bad enough, a necessary evil, but it doesn't seem like a tight chamber is worth all that trouble.

Now, if DPMS could get you a lothar walther barrel with a wylde chamber for $50 less than WOA, that would be a win. Otherwise, you might want to still consider White Oak.



I agree with the tight chamber being a no-go for all gas guns.

Hell, I don't even like them in bolt guns.

As for FL dies, I disagree. I FL resize everything, even my bolt gun loads. All my centerfire bolt action rifles have Mauser 98-type extractors, which combined with the camming power of the bolt lugs and recesses will pull the chrome off a bumper, and even then I use FL brass and doubt I lose anything in practical (not benchrest) accuracy.

Reliability is everything to me.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 4:52:47 PM EDT
I'm most likely going to FL resize my '03 Springfield brass, just because I'll be using the same setup that I use for the M1 Garands. But I'll segregate them, because I'll probably get 10 reloads versus 4-5 from the Garands. Garands sure hate brass.

What caliber is your match rifle in? 260 Remington? I can understand the need for reliability in match shooting, but for brass life's sake would a neck die and a bump die save on brass? I mean, I doubt you can order it in bulk like 5.56.

But I guess it's true that we shoot to shoot, not to reload though.

Jason280 Buy the WOA CMP barrel. It really is a deal, even at $50 more. A blank is a blank, but the work that CLE does is stunning. It will shoot straighter, be more reliable, and give you a warm fuzzy feeling when you hold it. It's really the best barrel you can buy without going up to the $500 range.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:02:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 6:04:00 PM EDT by kilkritrsnow]
SWO;I have been reloading Win commercial brass so for and reliability is not a problem ,I tried to load some Lake City and had big problems, I felt that if it became any greater concern ,I might rechamber in .223 ackley imp whats your opinion?. it seems the DPMS CMP barrel is marked .223 and they mean .223 not 5.56 please offer some sage advice is going A.I. worth the effort?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:09:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kilkritrsnow:
SWO;I have been reloading Win commercial brass so for and reliability is not a problem ,I tried to load some Lake City and had big problems, I felt that if it became any greater concern ,I might rechamber in .223 ackley imp whats your opinion?. it seems the DPMS CMP barrel is marked .223 and they mean .223 not 5.56 please offer some sage advice is going A.I. worth the effort?


Could you be more specific as to what kinds of problems you were getting with LC brass? Sometimes brass from different manufacturers has different hardness, depending on the exact alloy and it won't resize the same. Check your resized LC against one that has been fired in your rifle for shoulder setback and make sure it is adequate (.002" to .004" for a gas gun).

I've reloaded thousands of LC brass of mid to late 90s headstamps without a hitch.

As for Ackley Improved, I hardly think that's the answer to your problem. While AI brass will give you more velocity, the reason it does so is because the shoulder is blown out to 40 degrees (making feeding more difficult) and virtually all the taper is blown out of the original case (making feeding AND extraction more difficult).
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:23:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/30/2006 6:23:52 PM EDT by warren-hpf]

Originally Posted By kilkritrsnow:
SWO;I have been reloading Win commercial brass so for and reliability is not a problem ,I tried to load some Lake City and had big problems, I felt that if it became any greater concern ,I might rechamber in .223 ackley imp whats your opinion?. it seems the DPMS CMP barrel is marked .223 and they mean .223 not 5.56 please offer some sage advice is going A.I. worth the effort?



The LC would be 5.56, and there is a chance that it could have been ripped through a SAW and you're not sizing it down enough. Can you tell us the source?

If you're going to think about rechambering it, think about .223 Wylde or 5.56 CLE. both would greatly improve feeding but not at the cost of accuracy.

.223 AI is not for gas guns. Unless you want to single load each round and use some crazy extractor setup, it's not worth it.

ETA: Dammit!
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:57:09 PM EDT
Thanks for the advice. Are the chambers in the DPMS really that tight?
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 8:52:04 PM EDT
Sort of related to WOA barrels - I just received my new CMP Service Rifle upper from John Holliger at WOA and the thing is a work of art. Perfection in every detail, right down to the 1/2 MOA NM Pinned rear sight (an White Oak Armament exclusive), in pre-ban configuration. Just inspecting my new upper you can see the quality in the parts and the craftsmanship used to put my upper together, no dings, scratches or tool marks - Even the bayonet lug is squared and in perfect shape! All this at a very reasonable cost, and to boot, the thing will shoot like no tomorrow..........Excuse me, I think I just had a AR-gasim
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